Israel-Palestine conflict

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Then WHO? Every Israeli leader has agreed to EVERY deal ever offered.

A few years back, Hamas reiterated an offer from the 80s or 90s to return to pre-1967 borders. Did Israel agree? No. Your "fact"-check is full of lies.

Link please so Divair could could kill that lie.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

When someone says Heil Hitler,has a swastika flag, and who's name is killjews1888 then YES I'M GOING TO BELIEVE HE'S SERIOUS.

You must be new to the internet.

You're the type of guy who would say he proudly voted for Hitler as they lead you to the gas chamber. WAKE UP TO REALITY.

[Ralkovia]

Then WHO? Every Israeli leader has agreed to EVERY deal ever offered.

A few years back, Hamas reiterated an offer from the 80s or 90s to return to pre-1967 borders. Did Israel agree? No. Your "fact"-check is full of lies.

lololololol

Hamas offered a Peace treaty that if Israel moved back to the Pre-1967 borders, Hamas would declare a 10 year ceasefire.

[Divair]

You're the type of guy who would say he proudly voted for Hitler as they lead you to the gas chamber. WAKE UP TO REALITY.

And now I'm convinced. Ignore list, awaaaaay!

[Volnotova]

A few years back, Hamas reiterated an offer from the 80s or 90s to return to pre-1967 borders. Did Israel agree? No. Your "fact"-check is full of lies.

lololololol

Hamas offered a Peace treaty that if Israel moved back to the Pre-1967 borders, Hamas would declare a 10 year ceasefire.

Seconded.

The goal of Hamas is to force the Jews out of the Holy Land (and with them Israel).

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

You're the type of guy who would say he proudly voted for Hitler as they lead you to the gas chamber. WAKE UP TO REALITY.

And now I'm convinced. Ignore list, awaaaaay!

Keep up your little bubble while you can. Reality has to hit you sometime.

[Tlaceceyaya]

A few years back, Hamas reiterated an offer from the 80s or 90s to return to pre-1967 borders. Did Israel agree? No. Your "fact"-check is full of lies.

Link please so Divair could could kill that lie.

Clicky.

[Divair]

lololololol

Hamas offered a Peace treaty that if Israel moved back to the Pre-1967 borders, Hamas would declare a 10 year ceasefire.

Seconded.

The goal of Hamas is to force the Jews out of the Holy Land (and with them Israel).

That's why I'm fine with working with the PA against Hamas. No one likes Hamas, not even a huge chunk of the Palestinians.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Link please so Divair could could kill that lie.

Clicky.

Straight from your link.

The movement had said it could live peacefully alongside Israel if a two-state solution was reached in which all occupied Palestinian land was returned, even though its 1988 founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state in all of pre-1948 British-mandate Palestine.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Clicky.

Straight from your link.

The movement had said it could live peacefully alongside Israel if a two-state solution was reached in which all occupied Palestinian land was returned, even though its 1988 founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state in all of pre-1948 British-mandate Palestine.

Read the part before the comma, and remember that you explicitly stated that Israeli leaders have agreed to every single deal offered.

[Ralkovia]

Link please so Divair could could kill that lie.

Clicky.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-out.html

[Ralkovia]

Straight from your link.

Read the part before the comma, and remember that you explicitly stated that Israeli leaders have agreed to every single deal offered.

It's a ceasefire, not a long term peace deal.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Straight from your link.

Read the part before the comma, and remember that you explicitly stated that Israeli leaders have agreed to every single deal offered.

Hamas opposes the indirect peace talks started last month between the Palestinian Authority headed by Abbas and Israel, saying Abbas will compromise on national rights.

An actual offer not what some random guy said.

[Novraslavia]

I'm starting to regret posting my opinion on this thread. Some of you guys seem to be suffering from the medical definitions of persecutory delusions.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

I'm starting to regret posting my opinion on this thread. Some of you guys seem to be suffering from the medical definitions of persecutory delusions.

yeah and supporting Bin Laden loving, Jew hating, terrorists isn't a delusion

[Socialist EU]

So damn close to a good plan, Ralkovia. Demilitarizing Palestine, however, is not the key. Finding that many peacekeepers is already an issue, but UN peacekeepers are so shit anyway (crap combatants usually, very prone to abuse of power, etc). The key is to filter corruption out of the PA security forces and then run co-op patrols to secure the region.

Actually, let's put the onus on the Scandinavian countries. I personally would love to see Norway and Sweden doing it.
A demilitarized Palestine is actually a good key. One of the things is that the West Bank adds "thickness" to Israel, meaning that an opposing force can't cut Israel in to two pieces. If Palestine is not only demilitarized, as well as having UN soldiers stationed there, then the risk of being cut into two wouldn't actually be too large.

Not a fan of this petty-bourgeois national-statism. I prefer the strategy put forward by Moshé Machover.

[Novraslavia]

I'm starting to regret posting my opinion on this thread. Some of you guys seem to be suffering from the medical definitions of persecutory delusions.

yeah and supporting Bin Laden loving, Jew hating, terrorists isn't a delusion

Hey, I don't blame them for hating Jews. Especially considering that the Palestinians' only experience with Jews seems to be in the form of Israel, a country who has killed over 8,000 of their people since the year 2000 (including over 1,500 children).

[Socialist EU]

Seconded.

The goal of Hamas is to force the Jews out of the Holy Land (and with them Israel).

That's why I'm fine with working with the PA against Hamas. No one likes Hamas, not even a huge chunk of the Palestinians.

You mean Palestinian Arabs I believe. And isn't the PA also corrupt, albeit, not as reactionary?

[Ralkovia]

yeah and supporting Bin Laden loving, Jew hating, terrorists isn't a delusion

Hey, I don't blame them for hating Jews. Especially considering that the Palestinians' only experience with Jews seems to be in the form of Israel, a country who has killed over 8,000 of their people since the year 2000 (including over 1,500 children).

60,000 dead in Syria in a year.

It seems you don't know much about Israel though. Fact of the matter, is some "Palestinians" actually like Israel enough that they call themselves Israeli-Arabs and serve the state admirably.

Those that hated Israel continued to hate Israel from the beginning of the State. Nothing was hunky dorry in the beginning. Israel has survived through fire and bombshell, something I'm guessing you've never had to do.

[Novraslavia]

Wait. So you're telling me that because more people are dying in Syria than in Palestine that the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people are not important?

Because that's the only reason I could think of of why you would post a statistic that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Ralkovia]

Wait. So you're telling me that because more people are dying in Syria than in Palestine that the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people are not important?

I'm saying, that when the boat is being filled with water, you patch up the giant gaping whole first.

Now get back to the other point I made.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Wait. So you're telling me that because more people are dying in Syria than in Palestine that the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people are not important?

What Saudi Arabia is doing to the Palestinians-That's an atrocity
What Israel is doing to the Palestinians-A bit aggresive at most.

[Ralkovia]

Wait. So you're telling me that because more people are dying in Syria than in Palestine that the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people are not important?

What Saudi Arabia is doing to the Palestinians-That's an atrocity
What Israel is doing to the Palestinians-A bit aggresive at most.

Brother, both are atrocities.

It hurts when I cut my finger.
It hurts when I get my foot cut off.

I'd address my foot getting cut off, long before my finger.

[Bales Rant]

Didn't you write earlier: "The fact of the matter is that if Israel faced a conventional war scenario, the Arabs would lose and lose badly"?

Who are the external actors who are supposedly going cut Israel in two? Given today's military capabilities, the West Bank as 'strategic depth' is irrelevant, not to mention that without the advancement in military technology, the West Bank wouldn't grant strategic depth in any case. Not that Israel needs it given the six-day march in 1967. It's just a cover, and a flimsy one at that.

Annexing the West Bank is bad for Palestinians (some going into a Bantustan) and Israel (demographic reasons, Jewish character of the state).

Of course they would lose badly. However the difference of them getting beaten at the border and getting beaten somewhere at the sea, means hundreds of thousands of lives of difference.

I'm guessing you actually don't understand war tactics or strategies. Strategic depth allows for a fire and retreat line for reorganization and regrouping purposes. It would be way to indepth to actually explain to you, but let's just say nothing is irrelevant when it comes to warfare. With all the technology of today, having the high ground still plays an absolutely important role in todays warfare.

That's just it. External actors will get stronger or weaker over time. Unless you can predict the future, I suggest you leave all possibilities open. America has invasion and counterinvasion plans for almost every country on Earth. Just in case.

You seem to not be able to figure out that Israel doesn't actually have to annex the entire west bank. It can just annex what it wants instead.

The biggest threats to Israel are missiles and rockets (and very potentially WMD). The West Bank makes no difference.

The conventional military balance of power and (WMD power) is deeply in favour of Israel, even in the scenario where an Arab coalition attacks. And it won't.

The rational alternative is a solution with the Palestinians themselves but they need to be Palestinians in a viable Palestinian state.

"We predict the future and the best way to predict the future is to invent it." The X-files' 'Well Manicured-Man' sheeeeeeeeeeeeit!

[Novraslavia]

Okay, I'm done. You people are obviously so ignorant to the atrocities, dare I say genocide, perpetrated against the Palestinian people by the State of Israel that a simple forum post won't change your minds. Frankly I find it ironic that a people so persecuted over the years can commit similar acts previously committed against them and shrug it off as an act of survival and self defense. But I suppose it's okay to oppress, displace, and eliminate another people as long as it's not happening to you, right?