Israel-Palestine conflict

[Souseiseki]

I live in reality. You should be ashamed of yourself.

you literally live in a fantasy land where basically the king bubba of modern pan-arabism is not an arab and neither are any of the people he attempted to unite into several unions of arab nations, and that is just the tip of the iceberg, it is a shame no one informed him

e: sorry maybe not several. it's just that there have been so many attempts i got confuzzled.

i don't want to do the whole making the thread about you think but i can't really let a comment like that slip awaaaaaaaaaay

[Novraslavia]

Yes.

So everyone identifying as, say, a Jew and a Christian, or a Jew and an Atheist, is simply wrong?

It kills me to write this, it really does, but he's right. Judaism is plainly a religion, while being Jewish can either mean one follows the religion of Judaism and/or is a member of the ethnoreligious group. One can be Jewish without being an ethnic Jew, which is somewhat rare. Likewise, one can also be an ethnic Jew without following the religion of Judaism, which is much more common.

Now, if you would excuse me, I'm going to go slice off my hands with the circular blade in my garage so that they will never, ever write something that supports what Nicer potlimitomaha posts again. It was nice knowing you guys.

[Conserative Morality]

It kills me to write this, it really does, but he's right. Judaism is plainly a religion, while being Jewish can either mean one follows the religion of Judaism and/or is a member of the ethnoreligious group. One can be Jewish without being an ethnic Jew, which is somewhat rare. Likewise, one can also be an ethnic Jew without following the religion of Judaism, which is much more common.

Now, if you would excuse me, I'm going to go slice off my hands with the circular blade in my garage so that they will never, ever write something that supports what Nicer potlimitomaha posts again. It was nice knowing you guys.

Consider my post suitably amended. But, for the record...

Judaism
Noun
1.The monotheistic religion of the Jews, based on the laws revealed to Moses and recorded in the Torah (supplemented by the rabbinical...
2.The Jews collectively.

[The Nuclear Fist]

A. Of course we can.

Hmm, moving Palestinians into unknown territory or wiping them out, what regime does this remind you of?

B. Who cares about the international law?

Nations who don't want obliterated, of course.

C. My only worry about it is that the other countries in the world would stop buying our products and selling us with resources.

If you start violating international law, you're going to be dealing with things like sanctions and boycotts, perhaps even an intervention.

D. Who said? If someone is leading a country, HE IS the law.

The UN, which Israel is a part of. Break UN law, suffer the resulting sanctions which will grind your economy to a halt, face the severing of aid that supports your military, and perhaps even intervention. Genocide is not a viable option, and it is very telling that you consider it viable.

E. That will be a threat to our existence.

Source? Because from here, it looks like you're still supported by the Americans. You'll be fine. Besides, Palestine doesn't have the ability to threaten Israel.

F. Maybe it will.

No, it won't.

G. Never! It will cause a HUGE demographic threat.

Threat to what? War? Good, war needs to be threatened.

H. Because it will be a threat to Israel, and we have to get rid of the Bedouins somehow, they breed like Rabbits.

The Bedouins have as much a right to the land as the Jews do.

[Novraslavia]

It kills me to write this, it really does, but he's right. Judaism is plainly a religion, while being Jewish can either mean one follows the religion of Judaism and/or is a member of the ethnoreligious group. One can be Jewish without being an ethnic Jew, which is somewhat rare. Likewise, one can also be an ethnic Jew without following the religion of Judaism, which is much more common.

Now, if you would excuse me, I'm going to go slice off my hands with the circular blade in my garage so that they will never, ever write something that supports what Nicer potlimitomaha posts again. It was nice knowing you guys.

Consider my post suitably amended. But, for the record...

Judaism
Noun
1.The monotheistic religion of the Jews, based on the laws revealed to Moses and recorded in the Torah (supplemented by the rabbinical...
2.The Jews collectively.

Holy shit. Looking back, it looks like I didn't support Nicer potlimitomaha after all. My hands are saved!

In fact, you were both wrong. Jews can refer to the ethnic group (take that, Nicer potlimitomaha). Judaism, however, is strictly a religion and, as per your definition, can refer to the entirety of the followers of Judaism.

[Conserative Morality]

Consider my post suitably amended. But, for the record...

Holy shit. Looking back, it looks like I didn't support Nicer potlimitomaha after all. My hands are saved!

In fact, you were both wrong. Jews can refer to the ethnic group (take that, Nicer potlimitomaha). Judaism, however, is strictly a religion and, as per your definition, can refer to the entirety of the followers of Judaism as a whole.

Ju·da·ism noun \ˈjü-dē-ˌi-zəm, ˈjü-də-, ˈjü-(ˌ)dā-, British also ˈjü-ˌdi-zəm\

Definition of JUDAISM

1
: a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions
2
: conformity to Jewish rites, ceremonies, and practices
3
: the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews
4
: the whole body of Jews : the Jewish people

Judaism
In a religious sense, the term refers to followers of Judaism. In an ethnic sense, it refers to the people, or "nation", that traces its ancestry from the Biblical patriarch Abraham through his son Isaac and in particular Jacob, Isaac's son, as well as to those who subsequently joined them over the course of history as "converts". Ethnic Jews include both "Observant Jews", meaning those who practice the Biblical and Rabbinic laws, known as the mitzvot, and those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense.

[Novraslavia]

Holy shit. Looking back, it looks like I didn't support Nicer potlimitomaha after all. My hands are saved!

In fact, you were both wrong. Jews can refer to the ethnic group (take that, Nicer potlimitomaha). Judaism, however, is strictly a religion and, as per your definition, can refer to the entirety of the followers of Judaism as a whole.

Ju·da·ism noun \ˈjü-dē-ˌi-zəm, ˈjü-də-, ˈjü-(ˌ)dā-, British also ˈjü-ˌdi-zəm\

Definition of JUDAISM

1
: a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions
2
: conformity to Jewish rites, ceremonies, and practices
3
: the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews
4
: the whole body of Jews : the Jewish people

Judaism
In a religious sense, the term refers to followers of Judaism. In an ethnic sense, it refers to the people, or "nation", that traces its ancestry from the Biblical patriarch Abraham through his son Isaac and in particular Jacob, Isaac's son, as well as to those who subsequently joined them over the course of history as "converts". Ethnic Jews include both "Observant Jews", meaning those who practice the Biblical and Rabbinic laws, known as the mitzvot, and those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense.

Dammit. Why do I only open my mouth when I happen to be wrong?

[The Godly Nations]

In Corsica, there is an old tradition called la vendetta corsa, where one man, if slighted or harm, will go out of his way to summon up his clan to war against the kinsfolk of his injurer, to kill the offender, and the offender in turn kills the killer of the offender, and this merry cycle goes one until it ends the complete destruction of one or the other clan. In this way, the Corsican were able to effectively and justly administer justice throughout the island. This is exactly the sort of solution needed in the Palestine Question.


Such just destruction of one nation or the other nation is the only possible solution that any reasonable man can accept- we must scorn these womanish things: Talks, Negotiation, Compromises, and Goodwill! Every attempt, heretofore, by both leaders, have failed, if it isn't the Israeli who violate the letters of the resulting treaty, it is the Palestian, the leaders of these two nations, guided by Manly Excellence, what the Latins called Virtus, are not bound to respect such things. Instead of speaking of these things, let us, rational people, be guided, like the leaders of HAMAS, PLO, and Israel, by virile reason and manful logic: Let there be war!

[Spiritwolf]

If Israel were to eject all Palestinians into Jordan, should Israel pay compensation to the Jordan Government?

Humanitarian aid in the form of food, water, medical supplies, and limited consumables will undoubtedly have to be provided during the time of the palestinian/arab exodus. A transportation plan, and resources, will also have to be employed to move people and their essentials. All of this will involve considerable effort and expenditure throughout the process and volunteer organizations (and their resources) should be fully employed in this effort. The host nation/nations will have needs similar to Israel's own during the mass immigration of Russian Jews into Israel and will, in all probability, not be as efficient or effective at resolving those needs. Some form of temporary accomodation may have to be met in order to effect the relocation, but, there will never be any form of "compensation" agreed to or paid to any host nation/nations. There will be no "right of return". There will be no partition of Jerusalem. All faiths should still be granted access to their holy sites within Jerusalem provided this access is respected and honored by all involved. Peace and security can be attained completely only in taking the full measure of action in this effort. Hope for peace is a good thing in itself but it is not action. Only action will bring peace.

[The Nuclear Fist]

If Israel were to eject all Palestinians into Jordan, should Israel pay compensation to the Jordan Government?

Humanitarian aid in the form of food, water, medical supplies, and limited consumables will undoubtedly have to be provided during the time of the palestinian/arab exodus. A transportation plan, and resources, will also have to be employed to move people and their essentials. All of this will involve considerable effort and expenditure throughout the process and volunteer organizations (and their resources) should be fully employed in this effort. The host nation/nations will have needs similar to Israel's own during the mass immigration of Russian Jews into Israel and will, in all probability, not be as efficient or effective at resolving those needs. Some form of temporary accomodation may have to be met in order to effect the relocation, but, there will never be any form of "compensation" agreed to or paid to any host nation/nations. There will be no "right of return". There will be no partition of Jerusalem. All faiths should still be granted access to their holy sites within Jerusalem provided this access is respected and honored by all involved. Peace and security can be attained completely only in taking the full measure of action in this effort. Hope for peace is a good thing in itself but it is not action. Only action will bring peace.

If you're going to be ejecting the Palestinians and sending them to Jordan, the Israeli government should be required to pay each Palestinian compensation. Say, a check for a hundred thousand shekels, each.

I think that will be a (nearly) fair price for ethnic cleansing.

[Seangoli]

Humanitarian aid in the form of food, water, medical supplies, and limited consumables will undoubtedly have to be provided during the time of the palestinian/arab exodus. A transportation plan, and resources, will also have to be employed to move people and their essentials. All of this will involve considerable effort and expenditure throughout the process and volunteer organizations (and their resources) should be fully employed in this effort. The host nation/nations will have needs similar to Israel's own during the mass immigration of Russian Jews into Israel and will, in all probability, not be as efficient or effective at resolving those needs. Some form of temporary accomodation may have to be met in order to effect the relocation, but, there will never be any form of "compensation" agreed to or paid to any host nation/nations. There will be no "right of return". There will be no partition of Jerusalem. All faiths should still be granted access to their holy sites within Jerusalem provided this access is respected and honored by all involved. Peace and security can be attained completely only in taking the full measure of action in this effort. Hope for peace is a good thing in itself but it is not action. Only action will bring peace.

If you're going to be ejecting the Palestinians and sending them to Jordan, the Israeli government should be required to pay each Palestinian compensation. Say, a check for a hundred thousand shekels, each.

I think that will be a (nearly) fair price for ethnic cleansing.

Hardly, considering that they would either starve to death or die from lack of water in Jordan. Moving millions to Jordan is simply a death sentence for them and the current Jordanian populace.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Hardly, considering that they would either starve to death or die from lack of water in Jordan. Moving millions to Jordan is simply a death sentence for them and the current Jordanian populace.

I know, I was trying to make a joke.

[DogDoo 7]

Humanitarian aid in the form of food, water, medical supplies, and limited consumables will undoubtedly have to be provided during the time of the palestinian/arab exodus. A transportation plan, and resources, will also have to be employed to move people and their essentials. All of this will involve considerable effort and expenditure throughout the process and volunteer organizations (and their resources) should be fully employed in this effort. The host nation/nations will have needs similar to Israel's own during the mass immigration of Russian Jews into Israel and will, in all probability, not be as efficient or effective at resolving those needs. Some form of temporary accomodation may have to be met in order to effect the relocation, but, there will never be any form of "compensation" agreed to or paid to any host nation/nations. There will be no "right of return". There will be no partition of Jerusalem. All faiths should still be granted access to their holy sites within Jerusalem provided this access is respected and honored by all involved. Peace and security can be attained completely only in taking the full measure of action in this effort. Hope for peace is a good thing in itself but it is not action. Only action will bring peace.

If you're going to be ejecting the Palestinians and sending them to Jordan, the Israeli government should be required to pay each Palestinian compensation. Say, a check for a hundred thousand shekels, each.

I think that will be a (nearly) fair price for ethnic cleansing.

In Hebron, there are people who live in houses that face onto the settler street. Their windows are bolted shut by the IDF, they have to walk on roofs and climb through windows to get inside (since their front door is caged), and still they stay. Actually, one family recently sold their floor of a building (maybe 100 m2 or so) to the settlers for 16 MILLION shekels (and were promptly spirited out of the country and given a fast track to residency in the USA).

[The Nuclear Fist]

In Hebron, there are people who live in houses that face onto the settler street. Their windows are bolted shut by the IDF, they have to walk on roofs and climb through windows to get inside (since their front door is caged), and still they stay. Actually, one family recently sold their floor of a building (maybe 100 m2 or so) to the settlers for 16 MILLION shekels (and were promptly spirited out of the country and given a fast track to residency in the USA).

Once again, I was trying to joke.

But if we're throwing out sums of money, I think an even twenty million shekels per person should work out not so poorly.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

In Corsica, there is an old tradition called la vendetta corsa, where one man, if slighted or harm, will go out of his way to summon up his clan to war against the kinsfolk of his injurer, to kill the offender, and the offender in turn kills the killer of the offender, and this merry cycle goes one until it ends the complete destruction of one or the other clan. In this way, the Corsican were able to effectively and justly administer justice throughout the island. This is exactly the sort of solution needed in the Palestine Question.


Such just destruction of one nation or the other nation is the only possible solution that any reasonable man can accept- we must scorn these womanish things: Talks, Negotiation, Compromises, and Goodwill! Every attempt, heretofore, by both leaders, have failed, if it isn't the Israeli who violate the letters of the resulting treaty, it is the Palestian, the leaders of these two nations, guided by Manly Excellence, what the Latins called Virtus, are not bound to respect such things. Instead of speaking of these things, let us, rational people, be guided, like the leaders of HAMAS, PLO, and Israel, by virile reason and manful logic: Let there be war!

I can't tell if you're serious. Either way, war is still the stupidest proposal i've heard yet.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

I live in reality. You should be ashamed of yourself.

you literally live in a fantasy land where basically the king bubba of modern pan-arabism is not an arab and neither are any of the people he attempted to unite into several unions of arab nations, and that is just the tip of the iceberg, it is a shame no one informed him

e: sorry maybe not several. it's just that there have been so many attempts i got confuzzled.

i don't want to do the whole making the thread about you think but i can't really let a comment like that slip awaaaaaaaaaay

I don't know whether to be or just

[Souseiseki]

why won't the palestinians accept peace fuck dsdafafkgjkl

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... concession
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... gotiations

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

why won't the palestinians accept peace fuck dsdafafkgjkl

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... concession
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... gotiations

The PA aren't the people who need to be negotiating. There will be no peace unless Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Who in this thread has advocated ethnic cleansing in the name of a pure Jewish state?

You, Ashkland, Spiritwolf, maybe (slightly idk) Ralkovia but I doubt he did.

For the last time
I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED ETHNIC CLEANSING
I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED A PURE JEWISH STATE
IF ISRAEL EVER EVEN THINKS ABOUT THAT THEN I WILL TURN MY BACK ON ISRAEL

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

The whole idea of a 2 state solution depends on no group having control over 100% of Palestine. Unless you deny Israel's right to exist. Do you?

No I do not. Your two state solution however is to turn Jordan into Palestine. You're not even giving Palestinians some of Palestine. You're just relabelling Jordan and telling them to pack their bags and move over there.

Jordan was, is and always will be Palestine no matter what you call it. It is the name "Jordan" that is the relabeling.

[The Nuclear Fist]

No I do not. Your two state solution however is to turn Jordan into Palestine. You're not even giving Palestinians some of Palestine. You're just relabelling Jordan and telling them to pack their bags and move over there.

Jordan was, is and always will be Palestine no matter what you call it. It is the name "Jordan" that is the relabeling.

You keep saying this, but every bit of evidence in this thread has contradicted that.

[Union of Democratic Socialists]

What about three nations:
Palestine
Isreal
and Jerusalem

That way niether side can yell about the other having Jerusalem, and everyone has a State. It's a win win win.

[The Nuclear Fist]

What about three nations:
Palestine
Isreal
and Jerusalem

That way niether side can yell about the other having Jerusalem, and everyone has a State. It's a win win win.

Or we could just turn the West Bank and Gaza into the State of Palestine and have Jerusalem be a demilitarized, jointly/UN governed city-state.

[Union of Democratic Socialists]

What about three nations:
Palestine
Isreal
and Jerusalem

That way niether side can yell about the other having Jerusalem, and everyone has a State. It's a win win win.

Or we could just turn the West Bank and Gaza into the State of Palestine and have Jerusalem be a demilitarized, jointly/UN governed city-state.

I think that would be a good add on to my orginial plan. Although Americans would go crazy if the UN ran Jerusalem.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Or we could just turn the West Bank and Gaza into the State of Palestine and have Jerusalem be a demilitarized, jointly/UN governed city-state.

I think that would be a good add on to my orginial plan. Although Americans would go crazy if the UN ran Jerusalem.

I'm an anti-UN American and I don't mind if the UN would run Jerusalem.