Israel-Palestine conflict

[Seangoli]

viewtopic.php?p=13172538#p13172538

The discussion had drifted to Turkey so I decide to push the flow back south.

Sweet mother of pearl, you actually admitted something for once. After I verifiably proved you were lying, but you finally admitted at that. So you actually are dictating the course of conversation. Good to know that you finally admit this.

As to why you decided to to go the route of sending us down a road that has beaten to death is still beyond me (It actually isn't), and why you felt the need to deny that the discussion ever occurred is dumb founding, but at least we made some progress here.

Now if you could only admit a few other things we'd actually be getting somewhere.

[Seangoli]

Speaking hypothetically then, just imagine for a moment that the vast majority don't move for whatever reason.

Would you still be willing to grant full citizenship to millions of Palestinians?

[/quote]

His entire "plan" involves renaming Jordan into Palestine, which will magically make all the Palestinians believe that this country across the river is the real Palestine and they will all voluntarily pack up everything they own and make a mass exodus to their "homeland", that totally isn't a ruse.

I don't know about you, but the plan is absolutely flawless in my mind(Hint: This is sarcasm).

[Unified states of North China]

Speaking hypothetically then, just imagine for a moment that the vast majority don't move for whatever reason.

Would you still be willing to grant full citizenship to millions of Palestinians?

His entire "plan" involves renaming Jordan into Palestine, which will magically make all the Palestinians believe that this country across the river is the real Palestine and they will all voluntarily pack up everything they own and make a mass exodus to their "homeland", that totally wasn't just made up a few seconds ago.[/quote]
He's living in dream world isn't he. It's like going back to the WWII, and renaming Hitler's concentration camp "Israel" would make them some how think it's home.

[Equalium]

His entire "plan" involves renaming Jordan into Palestine, which will magically make all the Palestinians believe that this country across the river is the real Palestine and they will all voluntarily pack up everything they own and make a mass exodus to their "homeland", that totally wasn't just made up a few seconds ago.

He's living in dream world isn't he. It's like going back to the WWII, and renaming Hitler's concentration camp "Israel" would make them some how think it's home.[/quote]
I literately cannot stop laughing at this comment omfg... I'm putting this in my sig XD

[Spiritwolf]

This isn't about past history going back millenia gentlemen. Neither is it about our having to find a nice comfortable new home for the palestinians/arabs to live in once they are relocated out of Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem proper. The palestinians/arabs long ago decided on the complete destruction of Israel and her people through violence and terror......... in other words, by means of war. There is no possibility of a negotiated peace with them because they seek only war. There is no possibility of co-existence with them because they bring only violence and death to our people. So it is that we are brought to the final option wherein we can take action to attain security and eventually peace.......... the palestinians/arabs must go. It has been said that I have no regard for the well being of the palestinians/arabs but this is not true. All human beings deserve to be treated humanely, provided of course, they choose to act humanely. I have no compassion for masked guerillas who throw stones and murder Israelis and fire rocket artillery at civilian centers in Israel. This is about what is happening on the ground now. This is about the present and future of Israel.

[Xathranaar]

Also, how is it you think you are qualified to discuss the subject, when you don't even know about the fucking Persian Empire? Or, apparently, the Arab Invasion that felled it and the whole region?

I don't even care to argue with you over your obscene opinion on Israel and Palestine, I just cannot stand how constantly wrong you are regarding basic history.

What happened with the Persian Empire? The Persians had freedom of religion and much self governance for its subjects. The Arab invasion happened about 8th century. The Arabs were gone by the Renassainse of the 16th century.

Everything you just said is wrong.

The late Sassanids did not have freedom of religion or tolerate self-governance. The Arab invasion happened in the 7th Century. And the Arabs were no more gone there then anywhere else, the only difference is that the Persians refused to acculturate; everyone else in the middle east and north Africa did, including Palestine.

[Xathranaar]

I'm pretty sure you'd be just as hard-pressed to find a pure blooded Jew.

Jews aren't an ethnicity though.

Neither are Arabs. And both are as well. These words refer to a culture, an ethnicity, and (to a greater and lesser extent) a religion; any one of which is sufficient to credit membership.

And if they don't? If they choose to live where their fathers and father's fathers did? If, say, less than 10% move?

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Have you ever actually talked to a Palestinian? I didn't think so.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

This isn't about past history going back millenia gentlemen. Neither is it about our having to find a nice comfortable new home for the palestinians/arabs to live in once they are relocated out of Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem proper. The palestinians/arabs long ago decided on the complete destruction of Israel and her people through violence and terror......... in other words, by means of war. There is no possibility of a negotiated peace with them because they seek only war. There is no possibility of co-existence with them because they bring only violence and death to our people. So it is that we are brought to the final option wherein we can take action to attain security and eventually peace.......... the palestinians/arabs must go. It has been said that I have no regard for the well being of the palestinians/arabs but this is not true. All human beings deserve to be treated humanely, provided of course, they choose to act humanely. I have no compassion for masked guerillas who throw stones and murder Israelis and fire rocket artillery at civilian centers in Israel. This is about what is happening on the ground now. This is about the present and future of Israel.

Does the term 'ethnic cleansing' mean anything to you at all?

You're not allowed to move people en masse no matter how much you dislike them.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Jews aren't an ethnicity though.

No single ethnicity, but many.

[The Nuclear Fist]

You're not allowed to move people en masse no matter how much you dislike them.

It's okay because brown people and Ebul Moozlams don't count as people. I think they're Orcs or something, not sure.

[Xsyne]

You're not allowed to move people en masse no matter how much you dislike them.

It's okay because brown people and Ebul Moozlams don't count as people. I think they're Orcs or something, not sure.

Haradrim.

Although to be fair I think Tolkien eventually went "yeah I fucked that one up didn't I".

[Ashkland]

In Israel's defense, it really needed SA at the time. Israel was basically weaning itself off of soviet money and weaning itself on american money and it needed a little extra, and south africa was desperate as well, and let's not forget about the very vocal sa zionist movement at the time (and still exists)

Your're supporting Israel?
Who are you and what did you do with DogDoo?!

[Ashkland]

This isn't about past history going back millenia gentlemen. Neither is it about our having to find a nice comfortable new home for the palestinians/arabs to live in once they are relocated out of Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem proper. The palestinians/arabs long ago decided on the complete destruction of Israel and her people through violence and terror......... in other words, by means of war. There is no possibility of a negotiated peace with them because they seek only war. There is no possibility of co-existence with them because they bring only violence and death to our people. So it is that we are brought to the final option wherein we can take action to attain security and eventually peace.......... the palestinians/arabs must go. It has been said that I have no regard for the well being of the palestinians/arabs but this is not true. All human beings deserve to be treated humanely, provided of course, they choose to act humanely. I have no compassion for masked guerillas who throw stones and murder Israelis and fire rocket artillery at civilian centers in Israel. This is about what is happening on the ground now. This is about the present and future of Israel.

Of course it will be great if the Arabs were all gone, but how can we make it happen?
A relocation will be economically hard, forcing abortion might cause countries to stop their relation with Israel, killing all of them is immoral.
So relocation? Economically hard, but there is another problem, no country wants to accept them. The only hope for that is that there will be a revolution in Jordan, and only then they will accept the Jordanians "Palestinians" inside Jordan (Which is 85% "Palestinian").
Yet, we can't keep them, we just can't! So what I think is to turn the Triangle, and A and B to have Israeli military control, while we annex Area C, and move all the rest of the Arabs which are in Israeli territory to A and B.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

This isn't about past history going back millenia gentlemen. Neither is it about our having to find a nice comfortable new home for the palestinians/arabs to live in once they are relocated out of Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem proper. The palestinians/arabs long ago decided on the complete destruction of Israel and her people through violence and terror......... in other words, by means of war. There is no possibility of a negotiated peace with them because they seek only war. There is no possibility of co-existence with them because they bring only violence and death to our people. So it is that we are brought to the final option wherein we can take action to attain security and eventually peace.......... the palestinians/arabs must go. It has been said that I have no regard for the well being of the palestinians/arabs but this is not true. All human beings deserve to be treated humanely, provided of course, they choose to act humanely. I have no compassion for masked guerillas who throw stones and murder Israelis and fire rocket artillery at civilian centers in Israel. This is about what is happening on the ground now. This is about the present and future of Israel.

Of course it will be great if the Arabs were all gone, but how can we make it happen?
A relocation will be economically hard, forcing abortion might cause countries to stop their relation with Israel, killing all of them is immoral.
So relocation? Economically hard, but there is another problem, no country wants to accept them. The only hope for that is that there will be a revolution in Jordan, and only then they will accept the Jordanians "Palestinians" inside Jordan (Which is 85% "Palestinian").
Yet, we can't keep them, we just can't! So what I think is to turn the Triangle, and A and B to have Israeli military control, while we annex Area C, and move all the rest of the Arabs which are in Israeli territory to A and B.

Welp. My mildly pro-Israel position just became mildly anti-Israel.

[Fedeledland]

This isn't about past history going back millenia gentlemen. Neither is it about our having to find a nice comfortable new home for the palestinians/arabs to live in once they are relocated out of Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and Jerusalem proper. The palestinians/arabs long ago decided on the complete destruction of Israel and her people through violence and terror......... in other words, by means of war. There is no possibility of a negotiated peace with them because they seek only war. There is no possibility of co-existence with them because they bring only violence and death to our people. So it is that we are brought to the final option wherein we can take action to attain security and eventually peace.......... the palestinians/arabs must go. It has been said that I have no regard for the well being of the palestinians/arabs but this is not true. All human beings deserve to be treated humanely, provided of course, they choose to act humanely. I have no compassion for masked guerillas who throw stones and murder Israelis and fire rocket artillery at civilian centers in Israel. This is about what is happening on the ground now. This is about the present and future of Israel.

Of course it will be great if the Arabs were all gone, but how can we make it happen?
A relocation will be economically hard, forcing abortion might cause countries to stop their relation with Israel, killing all of them is immoral.
So relocation? Economically hard, but there is another problem, no country wants to accept them. The only hope for that is that there will be a revolution in Jordan, and only then they will accept the Jordanians "Palestinians" inside Jordan (Which is 85% "Palestinian").
Yet, we can't keep them, we just can't! So what I think is to turn the Triangle, and A and B to have Israeli military control, while we annex Area C, and move all the rest of the Arabs which are in Israeli territory to A and B.

You're hoping somebody likes the idea of ethnic cleansing? Ugh, extreme Zionism.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Of course it will be great if the Arabs were all gone, but how can we make it happen?

You can't, without breaking international law and coming off as pretty ironic, considering the reason for Israel's existence in the first place.

A relocation will be economically hard,

It's also ethnic cleansing, which is banned by international law and incredibly immoral.

forcing abortion might cause countries to stop their relation with Israel,

That is uncomfortably close to genocide, at the least its pretty significant ethnic cleansing. It's also immoral and illegal, plain and simple. If the Israelis were forcing Palestinians into getting abortions, the only solution is an airstrike on their capital and an intervention.

killing all of them is immoral.

And illegal.

So relocation? Economically hard, but there is another problem, no country wants to accept them.

So why not just declare the West Bank and Gaza independent, and form them into the State of Palestine?

The only hope for that is that there will be a revolution in Jordan, and only then they will accept the Jordanians "Palestinians" inside Jordan (Which is 85% "Palestinian").

It won't happen, and also'source?

Yet, we can't keep them, we just can't!

You can, actually. Granting the Palestinians in Israel full citizenship and giving them full rights is a great step to solving Israel's problems. Of course, that might require a measure of secularization, which is bad for some reason.

So what I think is to turn the Triangle, and A and B to have Israeli military control, while we annex Area C, and move all the rest of the Arabs which are in Israeli territory to A and B.

Or, how about instead of blatant imperialism and ethnic cleansing, you just declare the West Bank and Gaza the lands of an independent Palestine? Problem solved.

[Ashkland]

Of course it will be great if the Arabs were all gone, but how can we make it happen?

You can't, without breaking international law and coming off as pretty ironic, considering the reason for Israel's existence in the first place.

A relocation will be economically hard,

It's also ethnic cleansing, which is banned by international law and incredibly immoral.

forcing abortion might cause countries to stop their relation with Israel,

That is uncomfortably close to genocide, at the least its pretty significant ethnic cleansing. It's also immoral and illegal, plain and simple. If the Israelis were forcing Palestinians into getting abortions, the only solution is an airstrike on their capital and an intervention.

killing all of them is immoral.

And illegal.

So relocation? Economically hard, but there is another problem, no country wants to accept them.

So why not just declare the West Bank and Gaza independent, and form them into the State of Palestine?

The only hope for that is that there will be a revolution in Jordan, and only then they will accept the Jordanians "Palestinians" inside Jordan (Which is 85% "Palestinian").

It won't happen, and also'source?

Yet, we can't keep them, we just can't!

You can, actually. Granting the Palestinians in Israel full citizenship and giving them full rights is a great step to solving Israel's problems. Of course, that might require a measure of secularization, which is bad for some reason.

So what I think is to turn the Triangle, and A and B to have Israeli military control, while we annex Area C, and move all the rest of the Arabs which are in Israeli territory to A and B.

Or, how about instead of blatant imperialism and ethnic cleansing, you just declare the West Bank and Gaza the lands of an independent Palestine? Problem solved.

A. Of course we can.
B. Who cares about the international law?
C. My only worry about it is that the other countries in the world would stop buying our products and selling us with resources.
D. Who said? If someone is leading a country, HE IS the law.
E. That will be a threat to our existence.
F. Maybe it will.
G. Never! It will cause a HUGE demographic threat.
H. Because it will be a threat to Israel, and we have to get rid of the Bedouins somehow, they breed like Rabbits.

[Fedeledland]

You can't, without breaking international law and coming off as pretty ironic, considering the reason for Israel's existence in the first place.


It's also ethnic cleansing, which is banned by international law and incredibly immoral.


That is uncomfortably close to genocide, at the least its pretty significant ethnic cleansing. It's also immoral and illegal, plain and simple. If the Israelis were forcing Palestinians into getting abortions, the only solution is an airstrike on their capital and an intervention.


And illegal.


So why not just declare the West Bank and Gaza independent, and form them into the State of Palestine?


It won't happen, and also'source?


You can, actually. Granting the Palestinians in Israel full citizenship and giving them full rights is a great step to solving Israel's problems. Of course, that might require a measure of secularization, which is bad for some reason.


Or, how about instead of blatant imperialism and ethnic cleansing, you just declare the West Bank and Gaza the lands of an independent Palestine? Problem solved.

A. Of course we can.
B. Who cares about the international law?
C. My only worry about it is that the other countries in the world would stop buying our products and selling us with resources.
D. Who said? If someone is leading a country, HE IS the law.
E. That will be a threat to our existence.
F. Maybe it will.
G. Never! It will cause a HUGE demographic threat.
H. Because it will be a threat to Israel, and we have to get rid of the Bedouins somehow, they breed like Rabbits.

A. You can, but the UN will sanction/isolate/invade/obliterate Israel.
B. Maybe not you, but the governments of the world definitely would.
C. ... And help the Arabs raze you to the ground. Or otherwise, have your country starve to death and become Jewish Korea.
D. Illegal in international law and even if it wasn't, genocide is illegal I imagine in the countries of the world.
E. No, you're just racist.
F. No it won't. And he asked you for source.
G.No, you're just racist.
H. No, you're just extremely racist.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

A. Of course we can.
B. Who cares about the international law?
C. My only worry about it is that the other countries in the world would stop buying our products and selling us with resources.
D. Who said? If someone is leading a country, HE IS the law.
E. That will be a threat to our existence.
F. Maybe it will.
G. Never! It will cause a HUGE demographic threat.
H. Because it will be a threat to Israel, and we have to get rid of the Bedouins somehow, they breed like Rabbits.

I invoke Poe's Law.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

You can't, without breaking international law and coming off as pretty ironic, considering the reason for Israel's existence in the first place.


It's also ethnic cleansing, which is banned by international law and incredibly immoral.


That is uncomfortably close to genocide, at the least its pretty significant ethnic cleansing. It's also immoral and illegal, plain and simple. If the Israelis were forcing Palestinians into getting abortions, the only solution is an airstrike on their capital and an intervention.


And illegal.


So why not just declare the West Bank and Gaza independent, and form them into the State of Palestine?


It won't happen, and also'source?


You can, actually. Granting the Palestinians in Israel full citizenship and giving them full rights is a great step to solving Israel's problems. Of course, that might require a measure of secularization, which is bad for some reason.


Or, how about instead of blatant imperialism and ethnic cleansing, you just declare the West Bank and Gaza the lands of an independent Palestine? Problem solved.

A. Of course we can.

Well you could get rid of all the Arabs, but as Riso said, it would involve carrying out activities akin to those of Nazi Germany.

B. Who cares about the international law?

People who have event he most basic respect for human rights?

C. My only worry about it is that the other countries in the world would stop buying our products and selling us with resources.

That sickens me.

D. Who said? If someone is leading a country, HE IS the law.

So you support violent dictatorships? You're fine with Hitler because HE WAS the law? Or any historical ruler who persecuted Jews?

E. That will be a threat to our existence.

How is stopping the hatred of your country and gaining massive goodwill in the Arab world by stopping being dickish towards the Palestinians going to threaten Israel's existence?

F. Maybe it will.

That isn't a source.

G. Never! It will cause a HUGE demographic threat.

[citation needed]

H. Because it will be a threat to Israel, and we have to get rid of the Bedouins somehow, they breed like Rabbits.

The Bedouin who welcomed and aided the first Zionists, or in other words, the Zionists' first allies?

Would you be OK with a random country expelling all its Jews and persecuting them if they remained because Jews presented a "threat to its existence"?

Your argument so far appears to be "because I'm an Israeli Orthodox Jew, doing anything to protect myself, up to and including ethnic cleansing and potentially genocide, is OK."

That is not a good argument.

[DogDoo 7]

In Israel's defense, it really needed SA at the time. Israel was basically weaning itself off of soviet money and weaning itself on american money and it needed a little extra, and south africa was desperate as well, and let's not forget about the very vocal sa zionist movement at the time (and still exists)

Your're supporting Israel?
Who are you and what did you do with DogDoo?!

I support IsraelIS. And unifying our narratives into something approaching historical accuracy.

[Divair]

More analysis by Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/israeli- ... m-1.506592

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Are you confident enough in this to guarantee full citizenship to all Palestinians who choose to stay?

Yes. But In order for the Jordan is Palestine theory to wotk most would have to leave.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

The discussion had drifted to Turkey so I decide to push the flow back south.

Sweet mother of pearl, you actually admitted something for once. After I verifiably proved you were lying, but you finally admitted at that. So you actually are dictating the course of conversation. Good to know that you finally admit this.

As to why you decided to to go the route of sending us down a road that has beaten to death is still beyond me (It actually isn't), and why you felt the need to deny that the discussion ever occurred is dumb founding, but at least we made some progress here.

Now if you could only admit a few other things we'd actually be getting somewhere.

I did what was needed. I don't want this thread locked due to Threadjacking.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Speaking hypothetically then, just imagine for a moment that the vast majority don't move for whatever reason.

Would you still be willing to grant full citizenship to millions of Palestinians?

NO. That many Palestinians getting citizenship would eliminate Israel's identity as the Jewish state.