Israel-Palestine conflict

[Democratic Koyro]

How about we cut israel and palestine in two. Palestine gets the North and Israel gets the south.

Atleast its better than the solutions that NP is coming up with.

[Saruhan]

So, NicerPLO, you've never answered my question, do the Philistines deserve a state?

NO.

Why not? If the Jews get a state, why not the Philistines?

[Seangoli]

No, because that is ethnic cleansing, which is bad.

Voluntary movement is NEVER ethnic cleansing.

You have been told, countless times, why that would *never* happen. It's completely baffling as to why anyone would think that they would do so. The only way they would ever leave the West Bank or Gaza is if they were forcibly moved, and your continual instance that labeling Jordan as "Palestine" would cause a mass exodus is perhaps the most insulting thing towards an entire population of people that I have ever heard. Do you honestly think that they would be stupid enough to fall for such a transparent ruse?

[Rainbows and Rivers]

You are really good at being wrong.

The two-state solution refers to the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict currently under discussion, which calls for "two states for two peoples". The two-state solution envisages the establishment of an independent Palestinian state alongside the State of Israel in the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine.

That is exactly what i am saying and it is right from your sourse.

Now go to the page for British Mandate of Palestine and see the map they're employing:

This is what the source means when they say Palestine. This is what anyone talking about the two-state solution means when they say Palestine. Inserting your own definition for a commonly used term and then demanding everyone abide by it is in very poor manners.

Assuming for a second the Jordan as Palestine theory is true (it isn't), it's still basically irrelevant. As you yourself brought up, the Palestinians have been living in that land for centuries. Israel has no claim to the lands you want it to have and no right to move anyone off them.

In other words, assuming everything else you've said up to now has been 100% correct (it hasn't) the 'natural and sane' boundary between Israel and Palestine is not the one you claim.

So you tell me. What do you think the boundrey should be?

I'm with the 'Original boundaries + Land Swaps' crowd. Which means Palestinians should end up with quite a bit of land west of the Jordan River. (Again, even assuming your theory is 100% correct, which it isn't).

[Conserative Morality]

Eh. It's hard finding a pure blooded Native American or even one who knows the Native language today.

I'm pretty sure you'd be just as hard-pressed to find a pure blooded Jew.

THe Native Americans wouldn't do that. It is a moot point.

You see, you're dodging this because you know your position is hypocritical.

When the Palestine is freed from the Heshemites most palestinians would voluntarily move. THe few who remain will be given citizenship.

And if they don't? If they choose to live where their fathers and father's fathers did? If, say, less than 10% move?

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

So I ask you: What possible purpose did it serve to bring this up again? Are you so desperate for attention that you need to dictate the entire course of conversation or what? Personally, I have my feelings on what you are doing, but it's against forum rules to state as such. So what is it, exactly, that you are doing?

A) I go with the flow. If the topic drifts to Jordan=Palestine then I have every right to state my fact based opinion.
B) I know you want to trollname and I won't report you if you do. Whether other people would is doubtful though you'll have to decide whether you want to gamble.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

How about we cut israel and palestine in two. Palestine gets the North and Israel gets the south.

Atleast its better than the solutions that NP is coming up with.

Israel get the North. Palestine the south is far fairer.

[Seangoli]

I could've sworn you said Palestine was Jordan and that all Palestinians should live there....

Palestine streched from the Mediterranian sea to Iraq. The principal of the 2 state solution is that neither side gets 100% of Palestine. The Jordan river is the best border for the 2 countries of Israel and Palestine.

It did not, you liar.

Not a single historic map, ever, showed that. I want you to find me one period map, just fucking one, that showed this as the case. Not a god-damn map made by random internet person, but an actual from the-fucking-period map.

You won't, you can't, and the reason is simple. You are lying your ass off, again. Never, in the entire existence of Palestine, has any map *ever* shown Palestine stretching to Iraq. Just because some random internet idiot did it does not mean that that has ever been the case. You have been shown this simple fact so many fucking times that I can't understand why you can't get this through your skull.

So stop lying, for once in your existence on this board.

[Seangoli]

So I ask you: What possible purpose did it serve to bring this up again? Are you so desperate for attention that you need to dictate the entire course of conversation or what? Personally, I have my feelings on what you are doing, but it's against forum rules to state as such. So what is it, exactly, that you are doing?

A) I go with the flow. If the topic drifts to Jordan=Palestine then I have every right to state my fact based opinion.

Dude, it drifted *away* from Jordan=Palestine, and you brought it right back. You did. Every last damn person gave up on it, and for some ungodly reason you decided you needed to bring it back again after it had been discussed ad nauseum. Once again, you tell a lie. About a basic and verifiable fact, at that. The proof is in this god-damn thread.

You did not "go with the flow". You started the flow, again.

So I ask you, again:

What possible purpose did it serve to bring it up, again, after it had been discussed at length and everybody gave up on it?

Infact, here's the damn post you posted that brought this up again:

viewtopic.php?p=13172538#p13172538

Now tell, how the hell did the discussion prior to this post drift to Jordan=Palestine? It didn't. For several pages, it wasn't even mentioned. But you felt the need, once again, to dictate where the discussion goes. You knew people would reply to it, because it's an absolutely ludicrous and idiotic concept. Further, you knew that someone from the previous discussion would reply to it as we had told you countless times how and why you were wrong. The fact that you brought it up again is apparent what you are doing here.

So to be perfectly clear: You have zero interesting in actually debating anything at all. All you want is to dictate every moment of discussion in this thread. The reason why could be a number of things, but the fact is that you are, once again, dictating the conversation of this thread whenever it moves from a topic you don't like or don't want to discuss.

And, once again, you are lying about your own god-damn presence in this thread. Did you not think someone would call you out?

[Terra Sarmatica]

I'd like to see Israel, Gaza and the West Bank united into one secular state where Arabs and Jews are treated equally.

Interestingly, that was an idea of one of the most active Zionist movements (from Poland) before WWII (I can't think of any exact names off the top of my head). However, the war led to the delegalization of the group, and the "other" Zionists made their mark on history.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Voluntary movement is NEVER ethnic cleansing.

Except it wouldn't be voluntary. And unless you can prove the majority of Palestinians would get up and move to a foreign country they have no connection to, you're advocating ethnic cleansing.

In the West Bank today, 98% of Palestinians live in Palestinian governed areas. Just 2% live in Israeli controlled area C. THe same thing would happen if Palestine was freed from the Heshemites.

[Distruzio]

Abolish both States.

[Page]

Abolish both States.

And all states, right?

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Eh. It's hard finding a pure blooded Native American or even one who knows the Native language today.

I'm pretty sure you'd be just as hard-pressed to find a pure blooded Jew.

Jews aren't an ethnicity though.

THe Native Americans wouldn't do that. It is a moot point.

You see, you're dodging this because you know your position is hypocritical.

No. I have no position on the issue because i was never asked it. THat said I support the right of every group to a homeland. Even the Palestinians.

When the Palestine is freed from the Heshemites most palestinians would voluntarily move. THe few who remain will be given citizenship.

And if they don't? If they choose to live where their fathers and father's fathers did? If, say, less than 10% move?

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

[Democratic Koyro]

Except it wouldn't be voluntary. And unless you can prove the majority of Palestinians would get up and move to a foreign country they have no connection to, you're advocating ethnic cleansing.

In the West Bank today, 98% of Palestinians live in Palestinian governed areas. Just 2% live in Israeli controlled area C. THe same thing would happen if Palestine was freed from the Heshemites.

How long are you going to keep spouting this idiotic and nonsensical idea? Leave Jordan alone. Jordan is NOT Palestine.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

A) I go with the flow. If the topic drifts to Jordan=Palestine then I have every right to state my fact based opinion.

viewtopic.php?p=13172538#p13172538

The discussion had drifted to Turkey so I decide to push the flow back south.

[Equalium]

Destroy Jerusalem. This conflict is really all about water.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Are you confident enough in this to guarantee full citizenship to all Palestinians who choose to stay?

[Unified states of North China]

Destroy Jerusalem. This conflict is really all about water.

Destroy Jerusalem and the Christians, Muslims, and Jews would go nuts.

[Equalium]

Destroy Jerusalem. This conflict is really all about water.

Destroy Jerusalem and the Christians, Muslims, and Jews would go nuts.

Too bad for them.

[Unified states of North China]

Destroy Jerusalem and the Christians, Muslims, and Jews would go nuts.

Too bad for them.

So this is what you want. 3/4 of the worlds up in arms for destroying Jerusalem?

[Conserative Morality]

Jews aren't an ethnicity though.

Is that so. Please, enlighten me.

No. I have no position on the issue because i was never asked it.

I just asked you.

THat said I support the right of every group to a homeland. Even the Palestinians.

So you'd support moving these Europeans, who have been here a much shorter time, to their *true* homeland, Canada? Or would you prefer Europe?

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Repeating something doesn't make it true.

[Seangoli]

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Speaking hypothetically then, just imagine for a moment that the vast majority don't move for whatever reason.

Would you still be willing to grant full citizenship to millions of Palestinians?

[Equalium]

Too bad for them.

So this is what you want. 3/4 of the worlds up in arms for destroying Jerusalem?

Over a stupid city, they're gonna do that?

Idiots...

[Unified states of North China]

Most of the Palestinians WILL voluntarily move. The few who remain will be given citizenship.

Speaking hypothetically then, just imagine for a moment that the vast majority don't move for whatever reason.

Would you still be willing to grant full citizenship to millions of Palestinians?

Wait, I'm not getting this. You're going to move Palestinians out of Jerusalem?

So this is what you want. 3/4 of the worlds up in arms for destroying Jerusalem?

Over a stupid city, they're gonna do that?

Idiots...

That's what I thought about this issue too. Idiots. The world up in arms over a old city. But, destructing Jerusalem would make this even worse.