Open borders in USA: ethically required?

[Agymnum]

Mostly because we forced them to.

You're not even American. Who are you to say what's good for this country?

Someone who's More American than 49 million of us American citizens.

"Just saying your patriotic, is like saying you got a big cock. If you have to say it, it's probably not true." - Bill Maher

[Keron]

Dear god no!


Yes, immigrants are beneficial to the country. However, we can't use have the border completely open and let all sorts of riff raff run in here.

Instead, we should just make immigration easier (while tightening border security) and bring back assimilation programs.

Why not?

Also, I'm assuming you're American, in which case no amount of border security is going to secure you from, among other types, Mexican immigration.

[Myrensis]

It turned out quite fine, in fact. When we first arrived in America, five civilized tribes adopted quite a few Western customs when we first and nowadays almost all Indians have adopted our superior Western culture.

I take it you've never set foot on a reservation? Our policy with regard to the Native Americans was basically 'out of sight, out of mind.', and the results have not been pretty. But it's okay I guess, cause we gave them casino's and pedigree papers right?

[The Nationalist Republic of America]

Dear god no!


Yes, immigrants are beneficial to the country. However, we can't use have the border completely open and let all sorts of riff raff run in here.

Instead, we should just make immigration easier (while tightening border security) and bring back assimilation programs.

Why not?

Also, I'm assuming you're American, in which case no amount of border security is going to secure you from, among other types, Mexican immigration.

I went over it in my other post. Anyways, I don't want to close the border. I want to make legal immigration easier. At the same time, we should increase border security for the sake of safety and keeping out criminals and things of that nature. I'm also against deporting people who are already here, unless they are criminals.

[The Nationalist Republic of America]

It turned out quite fine, in fact. When we first arrived in America, five civilized tribes adopted quite a few Western customs when we first and nowadays almost all Indians have adopted our superior Western culture.

I take it you've never set foot on a reservation? Our policy with regard to the Native Americans was basically 'out of sight, out of mind.', and the results have not been pretty. But it's okay I guess, cause we gave them casino's and pedigree papers right?

If we had integrated Native Americans into the rest of American society instead of shoving them off, they would be in a much better situation right now.

[Agymnum]

I take it you've never set foot on a reservation? Our policy with regard to the Native Americans was basically 'out of sight, out of mind.', and the results have not been pretty. But it's okay I guess, cause we gave them casino's and pedigree papers right?

If we had integrated Native Americans into the rest of American society instead of shoving them off, they would be in a much better situation right now.

We tried that by making them "into civilized white people".

They rejected that. You know why? Because they understood that their culture was just as valid as our culture.

Also, your quote on "When in Rome" doesn't apply because Romans were infamous for destroying culture in order to assimilate it. I don't want to be like Rome.

[Saiwania]

Ok, why not keep New York for New York's citizens. We must respect the democratic wishes of the citizen's of New York and keep the states borders secure and bureaucratically managed. Of course, if you do not like the states immigration policies, take it up with the New York state government.

Okay, now that is just being silly. But it is true that on an international level, nations can largely be as permissive or restrictive as they so choose with regards to immigration and a lot of other government policies such as gun control. Why else do you think that most nations require a passport to be able to legally travel abroad?

[Gauthier]

I take it you've never set foot on a reservation? Our policy with regard to the Native Americans was basically 'out of sight, out of mind.', and the results have not been pretty. But it's okay I guess, cause we gave them casino's and pedigree papers right?

If we had integrated Native Americans into the rest of American society instead of shoving them off, they would be in a much better situation right now.

We did try to integrate them. By trying to wipe out their cultural identity and making them whitebread.

[Hippostania]

It turned out quite fine, in fact. When we first arrived in America, five civilized tribes adopted quite a few Western customs when we first and nowadays almost all Indians have adopted our superior Western culture.

What do you mean "we," white Finn man?

We, the Europeans.

Mostly because we forced them to.

You're not even American. Who are you to say what's good for this country?

Even the founding fathers said that while Native Americans were equal with whites, their society and culture was inferior. Both Washington and Jefferson thought that once the Indians adopted our culture and ways, the Americans would accept them. In most cases that's exactly what happened, and Native Americans successfully integrated into our communities.

And why shouldn't I say what's good and what's not when I know it? Do you think that only Americans should be allowed to participate in discussions about America?

[Sondstead]

our superior Western culture.

And you aren't even kidding, are you?...

[Agymnum]

What do you mean "we," white Finn man?

We, the Europeans.

Mostly because we forced them to.

You're not even American. Who are you to say what's good for this country?

Even the unding fathers said that while Native Americans were equal with whites, their society and culture was inferior. Both Washington and Jefferson thought that once the Indians adopted our culture and ways, the Americans would accept them and we should do our best to "civilize" them. In most cases that's exactly what happened, and Native Americans successfully integrated into our communities.

And why shouldn't I say what's good and what's not when I know it? Do you think that only Americans should be allowed to participate in discussions about America?

I think Americans know what's best for their country and culture, thank you very much.

Regardless, I refuse to take part in cultural integration.

If anything, I will proudly preach my Filipino ways just to spite any sort of cultural integration that takes place in this country. My culture, the Native American culture, and all other cultures are equally valid. You, and whomever else advocates cultural assimilation, have no business saying otherwise.

[The Republic of Lanos]

And why shouldn't I say what's good and what's not when I know it? Do you think that only Americans should be allowed to participate in discussions about America?

At this rate you're going, we might as well close it to only Americans.

[Hippostania]

our superior Western culture.

And you aren't even kidding, are you?...

Uhhh, yes. Western science, medicine, literature, music, arts > what the Indians had before the Europeans came over. Missisippian culture might be an exception, but the general rule was that the Indian tribes in the present-day US were fairly primitive until the Europeans arrived.

[Agymnum]

And you aren't even kidding, are you?...

Uhhh, yes. Western science, medicine, literature, music, arts > what the Indians had before the Europeans came over. Missisippian culture might be an exception, but the general rule was that the Indian tribes in the present-day US were fairly primitive until the Europeans arrived.

Science =/= culture
Medicine =/= culture

Only literature, music, and arts qualify as culture. Culture is subjective. Sciences are not. I will concede that the west had superior sciences and knowledge to the east and the Americas, but western culture is not superior to any other culture.

[The Nationalist Republic of America]

If we had integrated Native Americans into the rest of American society instead of shoving them off, they would be in a much better situation right now.

We tried that by making them "into civilized white people".

They rejected that. You know why? Because they understood that their culture was just as valid as our culture.

Also, your quote on "When in Rome" doesn't apply because Romans were infamous for destroying culture in order to assimilate it. I don't want to be like Rome.

Killing them is not the same as integrating. We should have set up decent education for them, and treated them as equals to us. Only then would they have fully integrated.

[Evil Lord Bane]

More leftest horseshit, like this forum doesn't have enough of it. Giving up boarders is the same as giving up national sovereignty. While we're at it, we might as well give up all of our laws and calling ourselves a nation. What we need is the exact opposite, tighter boarders and a real laws and penalties on entering the country illegally, not this bullshit fine and trip back home we hand out.

[Keron]

Assimilation?

Oh, you mean destroying immigrant culture? Right, right.

We, we tried that with Native Americans? You know, that whole "We'll make you into white men so you'll be 'civilized'." Guess how that turned out.

Destroying immigrant culture? When immigrants come here, they should live as if they were in their new country, not their old. You know, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"? Ideally, immigrants would drop that bad parts of the their culture and retain the good ones, which would contribute to the already existing culture that is here, helping further develop and advance American culture.

Then that's not called assimiliation. It's called being a melting pot.

But assimilation programs would be beneficial. For example, they would help teach immigrants English, our etiquette and manners, give them a brief lesson on our history, and tell them why Americans culturally do certain things. If immigrants don't assimilate, it can cause division in the nation, as they will segregate themselves by living in their own communities and continue living as if they were in their home country. They won't connect with the rest of the host country, and that could be a problem down the road.

This is nothing like the Native American "assimilation".

In general, immigrants try to get involved with the natives of that country, precisely because they feel lonely. Ghettos arise because the natives shun the immigrants.

[The Nationalist Republic of America]

If we had integrated Native Americans into the rest of American society instead of shoving them off, they would be in a much better situation right now.

We did try to integrate them. By trying to wipe out their cultural identity and making them whitebread.

That's not integrating them. That's genocide. There is a huge fucking difference.

[Gauthier]

Uhhh, yes. Western science, medicine, literature, music, arts > what the Indians had before the Europeans came over. Missisippian culture might be an exception, but the general rule was that the Indian tribes in the present-day US were fairly primitive until the Europeans arrived.

Science =/= culture
Medicine =/= culture

Only literature, music, and arts qualify as culture. Culture is subjective. Sciences are not. I will concede that the west had superior sciences and knowledge to the east and the Americas, but western culture is not superior to any other culture.

Notice how every argument about "Superior Culture" boils down to "LOL We Technologically Soopereer"?

[Socialist EU]

our superior Western culture.

And you aren't even kidding, are you?...

No he wasn't.

Besides which, it's not right to force a culture to assimilate.

[Hippostania]

I think Americans know what's best for their country and culture, thank you very much.

Regardless, I refuse to take part in cultural integration.

If anything, I will proudly preach my Filipino ways just to spite any sort of cultural integration that takes place in this country. My culture, the Native American culture, and all other cultures are equally valid. You, and whomever else advocates cultural assimilation, have no business saying otherwise.

Sorry, if you like your own culture so much then you're free to leave America for the Philippines or wherever you think you can practice your own culture better. America is the home of modern Western culture, the greatest, most advanced culture that has ever existed, and if someone hates it so much then I think that they do not deserve American citizenship. You should be proud of being an American and completely forget your former ways. That's what the Europeans did when they first arrived. Why don't you follow their examples?

The fact is that the Western culture is objectively better to other cultures. Most other cultures have no sense of freedom or human rights, or they are not as developed as their Western counterparts. Western culture has created pretty much all inventions and innovations around us.

So yeah, I'm all for assimilation. Some day there will be only one culture in the world, the Western culture.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

In general, immigrants try to get involved with the natives of that country, precisely because they feel lonely. Ghettos arise because the natives shun the immigrants.

I'd say that's quite a simplification. Ghettoes can equally be established because the immigrants shun the natives, but more likely because of tension arising from both parties.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Sorry, if you like your own culture so much then you're free to leave America for the Philippines or wherever you think you can practice your own culture better. America is the home of modern Western culture, the greatest, most advanced culture that has ever existed, and if someone hates it so much then I think that they do not deserve American citizenship. You should be proud of being an American and completely forget your former ways. That's what the Europeans did when they first arrived. Why don't you follow their examples?

The fact is that the Western culture is objectively better to other cultures. Most other cultures have no sense of freedom or human rights, or they are not as developed as their Western counterparts. Western culture has created pretty much all inventions and innovations around us.

So yeah, I'm all for assimilation. Some day there will be only one culture in the world, the Western culture.

Oh dear. Does this idea include one skin tone as well?

[Agymnum]

I think Americans know what's best for their country and culture, thank you very much.

Regardless, I refuse to take part in cultural integration.

If anything, I will proudly preach my Filipino ways just to spite any sort of cultural integration that takes place in this country. My culture, the Native American culture, and all other cultures are equally valid. You, and whomever else advocates cultural assimilation, have no business saying otherwise.

Sorry, if you like your own culture so much then you're free to leave America for the Philippines or wherever you think you can practice your own culture better. America is the home of modern Western culture, the greatest, most advanced culture that has ever existed, and if someone hates it so much then I think that they do not deserve American citizenship. You should be proud of being an American and completely forget your former ways. That's what the Europeans did when they first arrived. Why don't you follow their examples?

The fact is that the Western culture is objectively better to other cultures. Most other cultures have no sense of freedom or human rights, or they are not as developed as their Western counterparts. Western culture has created pretty much all inventions and innovations around us.

So yeah, I'm all for assimilation. Some day there will be only one culture in the world, the Western culture.

Guess what? I'm an American citizen. That means I'm free to preach how my culture is just as valid as western culture.

You cannot stop me. You are not even American, so I actually have more say in what American culture really is (a melting pot of all cultures) than you do.

I hold nothing but contempt for people who claim that one culture is superior to another. They, to me, are nothing more than pomp, puffed-up ignorants incapable of looking past their own egotistical mirror.

[The Nationalist Republic of America]

Destroying immigrant culture? When immigrants come here, they should live as if they were in their new country, not their old. You know, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"? Ideally, immigrants would drop that bad parts of the their culture and retain the good ones, which would contribute to the already existing culture that is here, helping further develop and advance American culture.

Then that's not called assimiliation. It's called being a melting pot.

For the past 100 years, the American form of assimilation has been the advocation of the melting pot. Immigrants drop the bad parts of their culture and mix it with the native culture. End result: Super-duper American Culture

In general, immigrants try to get involved with the natives of that country, precisely because they feel lonely. Ghettos arise because the natives shun the immigrants.

Which is why we should embrace immigrants.