Atheism is a faith

by **Purpelia** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Chinese Regions wrote:Why not? You can still admit that you don't know there is a god but believe there isn't.

With "Believe" you mean "Strong belief" or supposition?

That's another issue. He is using belief as faith. His definitions only hold if he characterizes both extremes as those having blind faith in certainty of their extreme claims. For him an atheist is someone who blindly has faith in the nonexistence of gods. It's just going back to the OP.

by **Great Islamic Empire** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:56 am

Knowing and Believing can coincide:

If you know there is no god, you believe it.

by **Fnordgasm 5** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:58 am

Purpelia wrote:
Fnordgasm 5 wrote:I'm an atheist and I've never used the scientific method in my life.

Why did you chose to be an atheist? If it is because you thought that there was no reason to be a theist than you did use it. You just did not know it.

Really? At which point did I perform an experiment to test my atheism?

by **Czechanada** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:10 am

Ceannairceach wrote:What do atheists (small a) believe, exactly?

That we are far superior to any religious person. *nods*

by **Chinese Regions** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:12 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:Knowing and Believing can coincide:

If you know there is no god, you believe it.

Yes and you can still know there is no god and believe it.

by **Chinese Regions** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:13 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Chinese Regions wrote:Why not? You can still admit that you don't know there is a god but believe there isn't.

With "Believe" you mean "Strong belief" or supposition?

Why are you suggesting there are only minimal options? Just belief, y'know think.

by **Chinese Regions** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:14 am

Purpelia wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:
With "Believe" you mean "Strong belief" or supposition?

That's another issue. He is using belief as faith. His definitions only hold if he characterizes both extremes as those having blind faith in certainty of their extreme claims. For him an atheist is someone who blindly has faith in the nonexistence of gods. It's just going back to the OP.

Me?

by **Grave_n_idle** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:39 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Divair wrote:Stop. You're making assumptions for other people. I am an atheist. I do not believe in any gods. I'm also agnostic, as I'm not 100% sure.

That's what I said. You are the type 2 False-False agnostic. Agnostics are the middle ground between atheism and theism.

It's been explained several times.

Agnosticism is not a middle-ground between theism and atheism - there IS no middle-ground between theism and atheism.

If you believe in a god or gods, you're a theist. If you lack that belief, you're an atheist.

Agnosticism doesn't even address the subject of belief - it addresses a different question - whether it's possible to KNOW if there is a god or not.

Someone who lacks belief in a god, and doesn't accept that it is possible to know if there is a god or not - would be an agnostic atheist. For example.

by **Grave_n_idle** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 pm

Great Islamic Empire wrote:Knowing and Believing can coincide:

If you know there is no god, you believe it.

Indeed. In that circumstance, you'd be describing a gnostic theist.

If you believed it without knowing - you'd be an agnostic atheist.

If you know there is no god, you would also believe it - that would make you a gnostic atheist.

by **Grave_n_idle** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:42 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Fnordgasm 5 wrote:I'm an atheist and I've never used the scientific method in my life.

Why did you chose to be an atheist?

Choose?

by **Indira** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:20 pm

Atheism is a faith in the same way that not smoking is a habit. Unlike faith, there is no central tenents except the absense of belief in God/Gods. Unlike faith, it does not require one to believe in the existence of a none-proveable entity or entities. So why do theists fail to understand that?

by **Genivaria** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:25 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Fnordgasm 5 wrote:I'm an atheist and I've never used the scientific method in my life.

Why did you chose to be an atheist? If it is because you thought that there was no reason to be a theist than you did use it. You just did not know it.

I didn't CHOOSE to be an Atheist. I realized I was one.

by **Xathranaar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:26 pm

Great Islamic Empire wrote:Privative Alpha + Gnosis (Knowledge): Negation of knowledge, NOT NEGATION OF GOD.

Privative Alpha + Theos (God): Negation of God, NOT NEGATION OF KNOWLEDGE.

I don't think you understand how that prefix works. Having studded 5th Century Attic Greek long enough to know that Greek is fucking hard, I can tell you that "a(n)" basically means, "not."

For instance, "(a)pathetic," means "not emotional," or "lacking in feeling." What it does not mean is, "in opposition to emotion." For that you need the "anti" prefix.

by **Desperate Measures** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:27 pm

Indira wrote:Atheism is a faith in the same way that not smoking is a habit. Unlike faith, there is no central tenents except the absense of belief in God/Gods. Unlike faith, it does not require one to believe in the existence of a none-proveable entity or entities. So why do theists fail to understand that?

If they can trick us into believing that not believing something takes energy then they can trick us into creating that energy and finally win us over to their faith of choice. It's a foolproof plan.

by **Genivaria** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:27 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Divair wrote:No, they're not. I do not believe with 100% certainty that there are no gods. Nearly no atheists do. There are, however, some that do.

You're just generalizing that everyone is gnostic, which is utter BS.

Than you are in fact not an atheist. An atheist uses the principals of science and the scientific method to make his decision.

No that's Rationalism. Your assuming that all Atheists are Rationalists which isn't true.

by **Xathranaar** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:30 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Than you are in fact not an atheist. An atheist uses the principals of science and the scientific method to make his decision.

No that's Rationalism. Your assuming that all Atheists are Rationalists which isn't true.

Indeed.

My own atheism is compatible with reason, but born of the simple realization that, "I don't believe this shit."

by **EnragedMaldivians** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:57 pm

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Wrong.

See this graph:

That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

You're right. Words never change. When the Ancient Athenians used to vote on sending someone into exile, they listed the name on shards of broken pottery that they called 'ostraka'; from this derives the modern english word 'ostracism' which literally means (or might mean, by your logic): to turn someone into a broken pot.

by **Dyakovo** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:Atheism is a form of gnosticism because it admits the "Gnosis" of non-existence of God.

Wrong.

by **Free South Califas** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:40 am

Alidina wrote:I’ve noticed on NS that people who are atheist get mad when a theist talks about the faith of Atheism.

Not really. I've been watching those debates too. I've seen people on both sides get hot under the collar. It's more to do with individual personality than anything determined by being on either side in particular. That being said, I've noticed that people who advance a proposal with no leg to stand on often claim that everyone else will or did "get mad" when they say it.

by **Forster Keys** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:49 am

EnragedMaldivians wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:
That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

You're right. Words never change. When the Ancient Athenians used to vote on sending someone into exile, they listed the name on shards of broken pottery that they called 'ostraka'; from this derives the modern english word 'ostracism' which literally means (or might mean, by your logic): to turn someone into a broken pot.

Adopting this definition henceforth.

by **Xathranaar** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:03 am

EnragedMaldivians wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:
That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

You're right. Words never change. When the Ancient Athenians used to vote on sending someone into exile, they listed the name on shards of broken pottery that they called 'ostraka'; from this derives the modern english word 'ostracism' which literally means (or might mean, by your logic): to turn someone into a broken pot.

He is wrong about at least the definition of atheist in any case. I don't think he actually knows 5th century Attic.

by **Camelza** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:27 am

As oral sex isn't really sex, atheism isn't realy a religion.

by **Camelza** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:39 am

Xathranaar wrote:
EnragedMaldivians wrote:
You're right. Words never change. When the Ancient Athenians used to vote on sending someone into exile, they listed the name on shards of broken pottery that they called 'ostraka'; from this derives the modern english word 'ostracism' which literally means (or might mean, by your logic): to turn someone into a broken pot.

He is wrong about at least the definition of atheist in any case. I don't think he actually knows 5th century Attic.

I can help. Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god/s (steretic "a-" infront of theist), while a theist is someone who believes in god/s ( theos=god, -ism). ..-ism means "belief in"

So, Atheist means non-godbeliever, while theist means godbeliever.

by **BushSucks-istan** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:24 am

Atheism is NOT a faith

There is a big difference between ''not believing in God'' (aka atheism) and ''believing there is no God''.

Atheists do not believe that there is no God. The just don't believe. Calling atheism a faith is like calling not collecting stamps a hobby or calling health a disease.

People: The rejection of belief itself is NOT a belief!

by **Christianasa** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:37 am

here is what I think yes Atheism is a religion but I don't understand how they have faith that God doesn't exist but they can't have faith in God. Because believing that the universe was started by an explosion takes a lot more faith than believing that God created it.I mean what caused the explosion and if it was an atom how was that atom created I mean eventually it has to lead to God because it just makes sense sometimes. so yes atheism is faith but it takes a lot more faith to believe in atheism than to believe in Christianity

Atheism is a faith

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