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Atheism is a faith

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:03 am

Agnosticism is just a pathetic blanket term used by three groups of people.

The first are closet atheists who much like closet homosexuals don't want to be exposed to the baggage that comes inherent with being one (like this stupid thread). So they play the "oh I don't know" card. Which in actuality means "I don't want to talk about this subject. Just leave me alone." They don't believe in anything, not really. But they just don't want this to be a defining feature of who they are. The second are closet religious people who want to sound modern and hip or those live in a progressive community and are ashamed of looking backward and primitive. Basically these people feel a longing for religion but once again don't want the whole baggage connected to it. So they distance them self from the church to get brownie points with those around them. And being able to pick and chose the rituals to follow is probably nice too. The third and final group are people who are confused in life. They may have been brought up with religion or what ever. But they too feel a longing for it. But at the same time no religion really fits them. This is most likely because they do not have the mental faculties and courage required to come out and examine their views and become atheists. But they do have just enough mental capacity to feel unpleasant about blind belief.

All in all, I respect believers more than I do agnostics. Believers might be fools that have trust in the words of some ancient book(s) without proof. But they at least are honest about it and know what they want.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Bottle
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Postby Bottle » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:55 am

Esternial wrote:
Bottle wrote:Some people are, for whatever reason, incapable of fully embracing the limits of their own knowledge. They need to believe that they have answers for all the "big questions," and, what's more, they believe that everyone else feels the same way.

The notion that some of us are quite content sticking with the "I don't know" answer is something they can't quite wrap their minds around.

Makes them no better than the Ancient Greeks as they made up a God that made the sun rise.

I don't really think of it in terms of "better" or "worse," at this point, because it seems to be a really deeply-seated way of thinking. As in, there are some people who just cannot GET that I am okay with not knowing things. I'm okay with there being Big Questions for which I do not have an answer, and I am okay with there being Big Questions for which no answer even exists. They...aren't.

And, to be perfectly fair, I don't really GET why they are so troubled by these things. I don't get, emotionally and intuitively, why it bothers them. To me it is self-evident, and it seems strange that there are people who believe otherwise.

So I think it's some kind of fundamental disconnect. Don't know how or why it happens, but that's my theory.
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Sahrani DR
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Postby Sahrani DR » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 am

Lol atheists get angry because calling something a faith implies that it is not a path of reason. "Faith" means that you believe in something regardless of the evidence and such. Atheism is not a faith, it is a position that is assumed by looking at the facts.
I am an Atheist and i don't "believe" in it, i just think it is the right interpretation of our Universe.
Calling it a faith is just a way of disproving it used by anti-atheist people in front of theists. It's just a degraded way of "winning" a debate, and dicrediting atheism.
But if you want to call it a faith, and join this bandits of the dialectic, do as you like.
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Sahrani DR
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Postby Sahrani DR » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:11 am

Purpelia wrote:Agnosticism is just a pathetic blanket term used by three groups of people.

The first are closet atheists who much like closet homosexuals don't want to be exposed to the baggage that comes inherent with being one (like this stupid thread). So they play the "oh I don't know" card. Which in actuality means "I don't want to talk about this subject. Just leave me alone." They don't believe in anything, not really. But they just don't want this to be a defining feature of who they are. The second are closet religious people who want to sound modern and hip or those live in a progressive community and are ashamed of looking backward and primitive. Basically these people feel a longing for religion but once again don't want the whole baggage connected to it. So they distance them self from the church to get brownie points with those around them. And being able to pick and chose the rituals to follow is probably nice too. The third and final group are people who are confused in life. They may have been brought up with religion or what ever. But they too feel a longing for it. But at the same time no religion really fits them. This is most likely because they do not have the mental faculties and courage required to come out and examine their views and become atheists. But they do have just enough mental capacity to feel unpleasant about blind belief.

^Wisdom.
Political Compass:
Economic Left: -8.25
Social Libertarian: -3.15





About North Korea's allowed haircuts:
Hurdegaryp wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Well I'd be fucked. I went bald at 20.....

To the gulag with you, comrade! No place for degenerate bald-headed bourgeois class traitors in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea!

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Blekksprutia wrote:It looks like 1 haircut viewed from 28 different angles.

That's the undeniable superiority of the Juche doctrine in action for you. All shall be equal!
http://imageshack.us/a/img546/7193/y0bu.png
Souseiseki wrote:
Sahrani DR wrote:how do you even learn japanese?

sacrifice to the blood god

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:18 am

Alidina wrote:I’ve noticed on NS that people who are atheist get mad when a theist talks about the faith of Atheism.

And rightly so.

Faith is a believe in something everyone has faith ?

No.
Atheism is lack of religious faith. Hence, no religious belief.
There are people who don't have any faith or belief. Just like me. I don't need hope built on totally irrational assumptions - I consider that as false hope and delusions.
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Krownsinburg
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Postby Krownsinburg » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:25 am

OP must've been dropped on his head when he was a baby.

I feel sorry for him.
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Great Islamic Empire
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Postby Great Islamic Empire » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:30 am

Divair wrote:Only gnostic atheism is the belief that gods cannot exist.


Ahem..

The word "Atheism" comes from greek "a" (privative alpha) and "Theos", which means God. The privative alpha is used for a negation, in this case it means literally "Negation of God", therefore negation of Its existence.

"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism, which is different from Atheism. The word "Agnosticism" comes from the greek: Privative Alpha + the word "Gnosis" which means Knowledge. Then its literal meaning is "Negation of the Knowledge", in this case "Negation of the knowledge related to existence of any divinity".

Therefore, if you say "I am an atheist" you mean that you DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD. If you simply don't want to take a position, you are Agnostic, not Atheist.

By the way yes, Atheism is a religion.
Last edited by Great Islamic Empire on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:32 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism


Err, no. "Gnostic Atheism" describes the idea that one knows for sure there's no deity.

Great Islamic Empire wrote:By the way yes, Atheism is a religion.

Not very good at definitions, huh?
Last edited by Risottia on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Great Islamic Empire
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Postby Great Islamic Empire » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:34 am

Risottia wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism


Err, no. "Gnostic Atheism" describes the idea that one knows for sure there's no deity.


Then it's Atheism, gnostic atheism doesn't exist. Read the description of the ethimological meaning of the word Atheism. It shows it is a belief.

If you don't know if there is a god or not, you are not atheist, but agnostic.
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Krownsinburg
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Postby Krownsinburg » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:35 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Divair wrote:Only gnostic atheism is the belief that gods cannot exist.


Ahem..

The word "Atheism" comes from greek "a" (privative alpha) and "Theos", which means God. The privative alpha is used for a negation, in this case it means literally "Negation of God", therefore negation of Its existence.

"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism, which is different from Atheism. The word "Agnosticism" comes from the greek: Privative Alpha + the word "Gnosis" which means Knowledge. Then its literal meaning is "Negation of the Knowledge", in this case "Negation of the knowledge related to existence of any divinity".

Therefore, if you say "I am an atheist" you mean that you DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD. If you simply don't want to take a position, you are Agnostic, not Atheist.

By the way yes, Atheism is a religion.


If Atheism is a religion, then I'm Black, Hitler won WWII, and Australia rules Mars.
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Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Everything is Britain's fault.


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Krownsinburg wrote:Vote Obama 2012 if you want America to die. :)

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:36 am

*Ahem*...
Great Islamic Empire wrote:Ahem..

The word "Atheism" comes from greek "a" (privative alpha) and "Theos", which means God. The privative alpha is used for a negation, in this case it means literally "Negation of God", therefore negation of Its existence.

Correct, atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in gods.

Great Islamic Empire wrote:"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism, which is different from Atheism. The word "Agnosticism" comes from the greek: Privative Alpha + the word "Gnosis" which means Knowledge. Then its literal meaning is "Negation of the Knowledge", in this case "Negation of the knowledge related to existence of any divinity".

Wrong.

See this graph:
Image


Great Islamic Empire wrote:Therefore, if you say "I am an atheist" you mean that you DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD.

Correct.


Great Islamic Empire wrote:If you simply don't want to take a position, you are Agnostic, not Atheist.

Wrong. If you simply don't take a position, you are an atheist, as you do not believe in any gods. If you are 100% sure there are no gods, you are a gnostic atheist. If you are not 100% sure there are no gods, you are an agnostic atheist.


Great Islamic Empire wrote:By the way yes, Atheism is a religion.

Wrong. Atheism is the opposite of theism. Neither are religions. You can have atheistic (Buddhism) or theistic (Christianity) religions.
Last edited by Divair on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Chinese Regions » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:36 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Divair wrote:Only gnostic atheism is the belief that gods cannot exist.


Ahem..

The word "Atheism" comes from greek "a" (privative alpha) and "Theos", which means God. The privative alpha is used for a negation, in this case it means literally "Negation of God", therefore negation of Its existence.

"Gnostic Atheism" doesn't exist, it's an oxymoron. You probably refer to Agnosticism, which is different from Atheism. The word "Agnosticism" comes from the greek: Privative Alpha + the word "Gnosis" which means Knowledge. Then its literal meaning is "Negation of the Knowledge", in this case "Negation of the knowledge related to existence of any divinity".

Therefore, if you say "I am an atheist" you mean that you DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD. If you simply don't want to take a position, you are Agnostic, not Atheist.

By the way yes, Atheism is a religion.

Atheism is NOT a religion/irreligion, neither is theism, they are beliefs that can be held by religions/the irreligious. Look at deists or people with their own personal faith, they can believe in god but have no religion. And certain Buddhists, they have a religion yet don't believe in a god.
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:36 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Err, no. "Gnostic Atheism" describes the idea that one knows for sure there's no deity.


Then it's Atheism, gnostic atheism doesn't exist. Read the description of the ethimological meaning of the word Atheism. It shows it is a belief.

No, you should look at meaning of the word. It is "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods". Are you seriously trying to argue that lack of belief = belief?
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Risottia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:38 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Then it's Atheism, gnostic atheism doesn't exist. Read the description of the ethimological meaning of the word Atheism. It shows it is a belief.

No, you should look at meaning of the word. It is "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods". Are you seriously trying to argue that lack of belief = belief?


Evidently he is.
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Postby Great Islamic Empire » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:38 am

Wrong. If you simply don't take a position, you are an atheist, as you do not believe in any gods.


If you are an atheist you indeed take of course a position, because you negate God. Agnostics don't negate anything.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:39 am

That chart is so flat out wrong that its not even funny any more. That is because it looks at things from the wrong perspective. Atheism or theism is not about certainty. Because both are absolutely certain in their implication. It is about the justification for said certainty. In case of theism this being faith without requiring evidence and in case of atheism lack of proof for theistic claims.

The chart just shows shades of agnostics.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:39 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Err, no. "Gnostic Atheism" describes the idea that one knows for sure there's no deity.


Then it's Atheism, gnostic atheism doesn't exist. Read the description of the ethimological meaning of the word Atheism. It shows it is a belief.


When was the last time you took a class of ancient Greek?
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Postby Divair » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:39 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:If you are an atheist you indeed take of course a position, because you negate God. Agnostics don't negate anything.

You do not "negate" gods. What is this "negation" bullshit you're coming up with?


There are two questions here.


Do you believe in a god or gods?
Yes: Theist.
No: Atheist.


Are you SURE?
Yes: Gnostic.
No: Agnostic.

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Postby Chinese Regions » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:40 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Err, no. "Gnostic Atheism" describes the idea that one knows for sure there's no deity.


Then it's Atheism, gnostic atheism doesn't exist. Read the description of the ethimological meaning of the word Atheism. It shows it is a belief.

If you don't know if there is a god or not, you are not atheist, but agnostic.

If you fully believe that no gods exist whatsoever, you're an gnostic Atheist, if you think that it's unlikely but possible that god exists you are an agnostic Atheist.
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Great Islamic Empire
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Postby Great Islamic Empire » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:41 am

Wrong.

See this graph:


That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:41 am

Divair wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:If you are an atheist you indeed take of course a position, because you negate God. Agnostics don't negate anything.

You do not "negate" gods. What is this "negation" bullshit you're coming up with?


There are two questions here.


Do you believe in a god or gods?
Yes: Theist.
No: Atheist.


Are you SURE?
Yes: Gnostic.
No: Agnostic.

That's not how it works. What you are describing is a classification of the various subgroops of these so called agnostics. Those that can't be sure.

Theists are always 100% certain that there is a god or gods because their faith tells them.
Atheists are always 100% certain that there is no god unless and until this is proven otherwise.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:41 am

Great Islamic Empire wrote:
Wrong.

See this graph:


That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

An agnostic can be either a theist or atheist, as agnosticism has nothing to do with belief, but certainty.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:42 am

Purpelia wrote:
Divair wrote:You do not "negate" gods. What is this "negation" bullshit you're coming up with?


There are two questions here.


Do you believe in a god or gods?
Yes: Theist.
No: Atheist.


Are you SURE?
Yes: Gnostic.
No: Agnostic.

That's not how it works. What you are describing is a classification of the various subgroops of these so called agnostics. Those that can't be sure.

Theists are always 100% certain that there is a god or gods because their faith tells them.
Atheists are always 100% certain that there is no god unless and until this is proven otherwise.

Wrong. You're making assumptions about what theists and atheists believe.

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:42 am

Divair wrote:
Great Islamic Empire wrote:
That graph contains many mistakes. An agnostic cannot be theist nor atheist, BY DEFINITION.

I think that in NSG almost all atheists ignore the original greek definitions of Atheism and Agnosticism.

An agnostic can be either a theist or atheist, as agnosticism has nothing to do with belief, but certainty.

Exactly. Meanwhile atheists and theists have everything to do with certainty. In one case this being certainty through faith and in the other certainty unless proven otherwise.

According to your questions the classification should go like this: 11 = Theist, 01 = atheist, 10 and 00 agnostic.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Great Islamic Empire
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Postby Great Islamic Empire » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:43 am

Privative Alpha + Gnosis (Knowledge): Negation of knowledge, NOT NEGATION OF GOD.

Privative Alpha + Theos (God): Negation of God, NOT NEGATION OF KNOWLEDGE.
The better way to love God is to follow His Law


This nation completely represents my Real Life political convictions.

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