Atheism is a faith

[Elysian586]

What an idiot poster. I'm not going to bother reading through 80 pages and I'm sure this has already been said, but for the sake of repeating, ATHEISM IS NOT A FAITH. It's the lack of faith. As Dawkins commonly points out, there are plenty of religious folk who don't believe in the gods of the Norse vis a vis Thor, Loki, and Valhalla and all that other nonsense. That makes you an "Athorist", does that mean you have faith in the nonexistence of these nonsensical characters of fable? It's a stupid argument. The burden of proof lies with those who believe in god, allah, jesus, spaghetti monster, etc. When faced with no evidence for your belief, don't try to drag down the atheists into your bullshit by saying their refusal to believe in something with no evidence is in itself a faith.

Just go away with your idiocy/religion, keep it to yourself.

[Enadail]

That's the point, there is no proof. Which, as many have said so far, by definition, no proof means faith. And yes, many atheists believe themselves to be smarter or more awake than theists. This isn't a ground breaking discovery.

No proof DOES NOT MEAN FAITH. No one has said that. All you're doing now is making assertions and expecting we believe you.

I certainly don't believe I'm starter then all theists in general. I believe that believing in theology is silly, but it has nothing to do with intelligence or smarts. I'd wager most atheists are like me.

Think of all the jags theists get thrown at them. Hell, even the notion of freethought as a thing shows it, it implies theists are not thinking for themselves. Secularization makes implications on the intelligence of those that are still theists.

Wait... all THEISTS get thrown at them? Most of the world is theists, in many places atheism is outlawed, and even in the US, atheists are viewed as less trustworthy then rapists, and its the theists who have stuff thrown at them? No, sorry, not taking that. Its a bullshit victim mentality of theists and I won't have any part of it.

In the end, someone is theists because they choose to ignore the very basis for logic: evidence is required to support a claim. It has nothing to do with their intellectual capacity.

[Maledixit]

Again, I am not talking about atheism's beliefs as a philosophical school at the moment.

I am talking about what the label of atheism does to one's self perception.

I've already said this.

I mean, I can repeat this as much as I like. It just seems like I'm spamming the same post now.

I've known theists who think that because they're theist they're more wiser because they don't need proof to believe in a deity. Does that mean that all theists have the issue of thinking they're unduly better, smarter and wiser than atheists? Does that mean that the "theist" label does this to someone?

I would say, yes, it does.

But look, I am a theist I guess, by 'definition'. I believe in deities. But the thing is, I don't give a shit about its' label, or do I identify with it. If someone was to bad mouth theism, or promote a misconception about it, or whatever, you know what? I wouldn't give a crap, I have no reason to be defensive about it, because a simple philosophical strand is not my personal identity, and I have no need to passionately fight for it's honour. I would be somewhat apathetic about it. I'd move on, I'd get on with my life.

However, if someone did aspire to theism as an excuse to be condescending and patronizing to others, for not agreeing with them, or having the same values, because they thought they were more 'right' or whatever, then I'd probably be saying the same thing to them.

[Hallistar]

I'd love to see any evidence suggesting atheists think they're smarter because they're atheist.

That's the point, there is no proof. Which, as many have said so far, by definition, no proof means faith. And yes, many atheists believe themselves to be smarter or more awake than theists. This isn't a ground breaking discovery.

Think of all the jags theists get thrown at them. Hell, even the notion of freethought as a thing shows it, it implies theists are not thinking for themselves. Secularization makes implications on the intelligence of those that are still theists.

How many atheists do you even know in real life? How many are like how you describe?

Because the way I see it, you seem to be getting the impression that certain atheists on here who are more active and vigilant in their posting, and who can be seen as more dogmatic, can be used as proof that atheists in general think they're better and smarter than theists.

Of course, it could also be said that people of any religion think they're better and smarter than folks of other religions, since that's the reason they're part of their specific religion and not any others.

Edit: And as Enadail described, atheists are far more persecuted (In certain countries) and are less trusted than they should be globally. Could it be that some atheists are more vocal specifically because they want to change this?

[Ostroeuropa]

I've known theists who think that because they're theist they're more wiser because they don't need proof to believe in a deity. Does that mean that all theists have the issue of thinking they're unduly better, smarter and wiser than atheists? Does that mean that the "theist" label does this to someone?

I would say, yes, it does.

But look, I am a theist I guess, by 'definition'. I believe in deities. But the thing is, I don't give a shit about its' label, or do I identify with it. If someone was to bad mouth theism or whatever, you know what? I wouldn't give a crap, I have no reason to be defensive about it, because a simple philosophical strand is not my personal identity, and I have no need to passionately fight for it's honour. I would be somewhat apathetic about it.

However, if someone did aspire to theism as an excuse to be condescending and patronizing to others, for not agreeing with them, or having the same values, because they thought they were more 'right' or whatever, then I'd probably be saying the same thing to them.

Intellectual arrogance is explicitly a part of thought that critical thinking teaches you to identify and adjust your thinking accordingly.
It leads to mistakes.

[Pradja]

I've known theists who think that because they're theist they're more wiser because they don't need proof to believe in a deity. Does that mean that all theists have the issue of thinking they're unduly better, smarter and wiser than atheists? Does that mean that the "theist" label does this to someone?

I would say, yes, it does.

But look, I am a theist I guess, by 'definition'. I believe in deities. But the thing is, I don't give a shit about its' label, or do I identify with it. If someone was to bad mouth theism or whatever, you know what? I wouldn't give a crap, I have no reason to be defensive about it, because a simple philosophical strand is not my personal identity, and I have no need to passionately fight for it's honour. I would be somewhat apathetic about it.

However, if someone did aspire to theism as an excuse to be condescending and patronizing to others, for not agreeing with them, or having the same values, because they thought they were more 'right' or whatever, then I'd probably be saying the same thing to them.

So I don't fit your definition of atheist then, since I just answered your question, now what?

[Mexicanada]

Yay! Angry atheists. *breaks out the popcorn while reading through the 80 pages*

[Maledixit]

That's the point, there is no proof. Which, as many have said so far, by definition, no proof means faith. And yes, many atheists believe themselves to be smarter or more awake than theists. This isn't a ground breaking discovery.

No proof DOES NOT MEAN FAITH. No one has said that. All you're doing now is making assertions and expecting we believe you.

ORLY?

Faith is belief without proof. Literally that's why religion involves faith, because they operate on the principle of unfalsifiability. That's the whole point.

Confidence requires past examples of evidence to extrapolate a prediction.

Page 77

This is the definition of faith.
This is the definition of belief.


Note the difference? Faith requires absolute trust and confidence in something. Especially because of spiritual convictions rather than evidence. Belief is just acceptance that something is true.

Absolute trust and confidence despite proof to the contrary.

Page 78

Hm. Sure.

[Maledixit]

Wait... all THEISTS get thrown at them? Most of the world is theists, in many places atheism is outlawed, and even in the US, atheists are viewed as less trustworthy then rapists, and its the theists who have stuff thrown at them? No, sorry, not taking that. Its a bullshit victim mentality of theists and I won't have any part of it.

In the end, someone is theists because they choose to ignore the very basis for logic: evidence is required to support a claim. It has nothing to do with their intellectual capacity.

Here is a scary realization. Not every single location on the planet has the same social context.

[Ovisterra]

Wait... all THEISTS get thrown at them? Most of the world is theists, in many places atheism is outlawed, and even in the US, atheists are viewed as less trustworthy then rapists, and its the theists who have stuff thrown at them? No, sorry, not taking that. Its a bullshit victim mentality of theists and I won't have any part of it.

In the end, someone is theists because they choose to ignore the very basis for logic: evidence is required to support a claim. It has nothing to do with their intellectual capacity.

Here is a scary realization. Not every single location on the planet has the same social context.

Your cherry-picking is cute.

[Maledixit]

Here is a scary realization. Not every single location on the planet has the same social context.

Your cherry-picking is cute.

Defensive atheists are cute too. But let's not go around fetishizing.

[Ovisterra]

Your cherry-picking is cute.

Defensive atheists are cute too. But let's not go around fetishizing.

I don't have a fetish for either defensive atheists or cherry picking, thank you very much. Perhaps someone somewhere does, but it's none of my business, not something I care about, and nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[Pradja]

Your cherry-picking is cute.

Defensive atheists are cute too. But let's not go around fetishizing.

You did not answer my question.

[Maledixit]

That's the point, there is no proof. Which, as many have said so far, by definition, no proof means faith. And yes, many atheists believe themselves to be smarter or more awake than theists. This isn't a ground breaking discovery.

Think of all the jags theists get thrown at them. Hell, even the notion of freethought as a thing shows it, it implies theists are not thinking for themselves. Secularization makes implications on the intelligence of those that are still theists.

How many atheists do you even know in real life? How many are like how you describe?

Because the way I see it, you seem to be getting the impression that certain atheists on here who are more active and vigilant in their posting, and who can be seen as more dogmatic, can be used as proof that atheists in general think they're better and smarter than theists.

Of course, it could also be said that people of any religion think they're better and smarter than folks of other religions, since that's the reason they're part of their specific religion and not any others.

Edit: And as Enadail described, atheists are far more persecuted (In certain countries) and are less trusted than they should be globally. Could it be that some atheists are more vocal specifically because they want to change this?

I like how you assume I don't know atheists in real life.

Also, the world is far more secularized than you think. I'unno, maybe there's a difference in perception here or something. Maybe there's some kind of victim complex that particular fundamental brands of people that happen to be atheists, have attached themselves too. Or maybe you come from a particular right wing area. I really don't know, or in fact care to be honest, I don't really know you or anyone here from Adam. But I love how you're trying to imply that atheists are an oppressed group world wide.

[Ostroeuropa]

But I love how you're trying to imply that atheists are an oppressed group world wide.

We are.

[Maledixit]

Defensive atheists are cute too. But let's not go around fetishizing.

You did not answer my question.

I answer the questions as I see them. If I missed it accidentally, then of course my apologies. Free free to highlight it again.

[Duvniask]

But I love how you're trying to imply that atheists are an oppressed group world wide.

We are.

And it's safe to say: for a long time.

[Ovisterra]

You did not answer my question.

I answer the questions as I see them.

Funny how you coincidentally miss 80% of a post, huh?

[Maledixit]

Defensive atheists are cute too. But let's not go around fetishizing.

I don't have a fetish for either defensive atheists or cherry picking, thank you very much. Perhaps someone somewhere does, but it's none of my business, not something I care about, and nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I agree, so let's not talk about what we think is cute eh.

[Beezyland]

A recent poll showed that an atheist is less likely to be elected Presedent of the US than the following; Woman, GLBT, Catholic/Jew/Mormon/Moslem.

[Maledixit]

I answer the questions as I see them.

Funny how you coincidentally miss 80% of a post, huh?

I have, like, 5 reply tabs open, and I'm attempting to copy and paste them. Forgive me if I happen to accidentally miss out a bit.

How about you actually remind me what the question was, rather than be sarky about it.

[Pradja]

You did not answer my question.

I answer the questions as I see them. If I missed it accidentally, then of course my apologies. Free free to highlight it again.

I just answered your question, hence I do not fit your definition of atheist, now what does that tell you?

[Condunum]

As an atheist, I believe there is no God/god/godess/animal totem/etc. Therefore, I have belief but certainly no faith. I was faithful to my deceased wife whom I married in a courthouse before a magistrate, none of which has to do with a theism, be it mono or multi.

Even our own don't get it. If you have an active disbelief, you have faith in the lack of existence of a god.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I love how you're trying to imply that atheists are an oppressed group world wide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimina ... t_atheists

[Ovisterra]

I don't have a fetish for either defensive atheists or cherry picking, thank you very much. Perhaps someone somewhere does, but it's none of my business, not something I care about, and nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I agree, so let's not talk about what we think is cute eh.

I'm having a hard time telling if you actually missed the point that spectacularly, or if you're just engaging in some world-class goalpost shifting. Trust me, kid, if it were an Olympic sport, my money would be on you.