should abortion be legal?

[Guardland]

Nonsence. The doctrines of the Catholic Church apply to every person all around the world.

No, they don't. The Pope can choke on s cardinal's cock for all I care.

Likewise, I'm sure you'll find in the Catechism that the Church's teachings do apply to everyone.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, they don't. The Pope can choke on s cardinal's cock for all I care.

Likewise, I'm sure you'll find in the Catechism that the Church's teachings do apply to everyone.

How so.


And remember this:

I'm sure you'll find the Church's teachings on its role within society in the Catechism.

So thats a no then.
I hereby claim that Individuality-ness is the second coming.
They say abortion is fine. Since it comes from god, obviously our laws need to be based on his opinion.
Do you see the problem yet?
Either come up with an actual argument or you may as well just be making farm animal noises. Your religion has no place here.

[Norstal]

There is no biological definition of murder.

OK, it is killing. I will say it is also murder because it is pre-planned by the woman. Killing something on purpose even with just one cell is murder. The college biology teacher said this is why he views abortion as wrong. We all start as a single cell.

Abortion is sad, I wish we made it easier for people to get steralized. Encouraging this with propoganda campaigns would be a good step in the right direction. Uneducated and poor people should be encouraged to get steralized.

I see. So every statement that you make from now on, we should do the reverse of that.

I agree.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

In some cases, but in most it's unjustified murder.

[Ostroeuropa]

In some cases, but in most it's unjustified murder.

You can't have murder if it's legal.
Murder is defined as unlawful killing.

[Tubbsalot]

Likewise, I'm sure you'll find in the Catechism that the Church's teachings do apply to everyone.

You'll also find in my arse that what I say goes.

[Battenburgia]

Killing something on purpose even with just one cell is murder. The college biology teacher said this is why he views abortion as wrong. We all start as a single cell.

If Jebus and his dad or any of their supernatural friends didn't want us to kill potential human beings in their single cell form, they wouldn't have given women periods now would they?

I kill a baby every month...what a bitch eh!

[Ostroeuropa]

Killing something on purpose even with just one cell is murder. The college biology teacher said this is why he views abortion as wrong. We all start as a single cell.

If Jebus and his dad or any of their supernatural friends didn't want us to kill potential human beings in their single cell form, they wouldn't have given women periods now would they?

I kill a baby every month...what a bitch eh!

Also washing your hands is genocide.

[Freiheit Reich]

OK, it is killing. I will say it is also murder because it is pre-planned by the woman. Killing something on purpose even with just one cell is murder. The college biology teacher said this is why he views abortion as wrong. We all start as a single cell.

Abortion is sad, I wish we made it easier for people to get steralized. Encouraging this with propoganda campaigns would be a good step in the right direction. Uneducated and poor people should be encouraged to get steralized.

I see. So every statement that you make from now on, we should do the reverse of that.

I agree.

I believe in freedom so I am against forced sterilizations (even though they would make society better they are unethical). Voluntary steralizations have loads of benefits. We can control the fast growing population, decrease crime, decrease poverty, make the average American smarter (by keeping dumb people from passing down their genes) and decrease unwanted pregnancies.

[Batman country]

I will post my opinion, So that this is will be known as my official stance on abortion. Thus if anybody was to ask me about this topic, I can simply defer them here. I do not wish to stir any antagonism, debate or argument. I am no an expert, and I don't have any experience with abortion clinics myself, yet. Now, with that said:

I am pro-life, not in the sense that you would assume. I'm not religious, in fact I'm against the christian, Jewish, & islamic religions(I will not go deeper into the topic, as that is for another thread altogether). I view life as an unalienable right. Life IS technically an unalienable right in the United States of America, guaranteed by the US constitution(or the delcaration of independence, I can't remember which). Now Technically, the right to life is an unalienable right at birth. Thus there's a fallacy in my own logic, an I acknowledge that. However I still wish for the practice to be banned.

[Battenburgia]

Voluntary steralizations have loads of benefits. We can ... make the average American smarter (by keeping dumb people from passing down their genes) ...

if that means sterilising all the Christian nutjobs that the USA is famous for, i'm all for it

[Dyakovo]

No, they don't. The Pope can choke on s cardinal's cock for all I care.

Likewise, I'm sure you'll find in the Catechism that the Church's teachings do apply to everyone.

On the contrary, I have already found that they don't.
Now do you have any actual argument or are you going to just stick with "my imaginary friend says it's bad"?

[Dyakovo]

I will post my opinion, So that this is will be known as my official stance on abortion. Thus if anybody was to ask me about this topic, I can simply defer them here. I do not wish to stir any antagonism, debate or argument. I am no an expert, and I don't have any experience with abortion clinics myself, yet. Now, with that said:

I am pro-life, not in the sense that you would assume. I'm not religious, in fact I'm against the christian, Jewish, & islamic religions(I will not go deeper into the topic, as that is for another thread altogether). I view life as an unalienable right. Life IS technically an unalienable right inthe United States of America, guaranteed by the US constitution(or the delcaration of independence, I can't remember which). Now Technically, the right to life is an unalienable right at birth. Thus there's a fallacy in my own logic, an I acknowledge that.

Now, it is my wish to see the practice of abortion banned. I support this argument with the fact that it was illegal whenthe United States was born, and was only made legal recently. There is also the fact that the people whom pushed for this bill to be passed was a special lobby group, whom used a woman as their speaker that now condemns the industry entirely. The two former fats culd point to a corrupt law, which really only serves the self-interests of a select few individuals for money,thus essentially only being made for profit(profit off 300,000 "abortions" yearly). Secondly, It is my belief that this is depriving young parents of valuable learning experiences, whichis the lesson of pain in life and consequences of reckless actions, which would b having to take care of the child, or fin a offspring of yours taken away by strangers, which is actually a mercy compared to having the child killed at birth, watching it being ton limb from limb in a grinder. Thid, look at the people whom have the abortions done, specifically the youner ones. They get it done because of the environment they are in, to sum it up in a generic sense. It's partly due to peer pressure and media, promoting sex as a thing you must do early. It's due to bad parenting, because the parents should prepare their children for this world. FInally, I just see it as a convenient way for somebody whom is too selfish to get out of a hole they dug because they didn't want to practice safe sex. By that I mean, the phrase of a "customer" to an abortion clinic saying "Hey, I'm pregnant with a child sue to my own stupidity. Here, takes thousands of my dollars to literally tear peice of my body out of me and cause me harm."

Your official opinion is stupid, divorced from reality, and misogynistic.

[Frankfurt567]

We've had threads like this before but yes, I believe it should be legal.

[Libertadia]

As libertarian, I believe anarchy can only work if we respect three simple values: life, liberty and property.

From my point of view, abortion is as ethically bad as murder or death penalty. To ban abortion is against liberty the same way as to ban murder. If we get relativist, it's time to seriously think why murder is such a bad thing, right?

I'm not telling women to get pregnant against their will, I just say there are a lot of ways to not to get pregnant - contraceptives, day-after pill... thus making abortion avoidable and unnecessary.

[Dyakovo]

As libertarian, I believe anarchy can only work if we respect three simple values: life, liberty and property.

From my point of view, abortion is as ethically bad as murder or death penalty. To ban abortion is against liberty the same way as to ban murder. If we get relativist, it's time to seriously think why murder is such a bad thing, right?

I'm not telling women to get pregnant against their will, I just say there are a lot of ways to not to get pregnant - contraceptives, day-after pill... thus making abortion avoidable and unnecessary.

Let us know when you wander into the real world...

[AiliailiA]

I will post my opinion, So that this is will be known as my official stance on abortion. Thus if anybody was to ask me about this topic, I can simply defer them here. I do not wish to stir any antagonism, debate or argument. I am no an expert, and I don't have any experience with abortion clinics myself, yet. Now, with that said:

I am pro-life, not in the sense that you would assume. I'm not religious, in fact I'm against the christian, Jewish, & islamic religions(I will not go deeper into the topic, as that is for another thread altogether). I view life as an unalienable right. Life IS technically an unalienable right inthe United States of America, guaranteed by the US constitution(or the delcaration of independence, I can't remember which). Now Technically, the right to life is an unalienable right at birth.Thus there's a fallacy in my own logic, an I acknowledge that.[/color]

Excellent. But you go on to be wrong in every other thing you posted too.

Now, it is my wish to see the practice of abortion banned. I support this argument with the fact that it was illegal whenthe United States was born, and was only made legal recently.

Wrong. The US adopted English law on abortion, that it was perfectly legal before "quickening". That means, that spontaneous movements of the fetus can be detected by the woman. That's about 18 weeks, and longer than that before anyone else could detect such movements.

There is also the fact that the people whom pushed for this bill to be passed was a special lobby group, whom used a woman as their speaker that now condemns the industry entirely.

Which "bill"? Do you mean Roe v. Wade? That's not a bill, it's a court ruling and like all rulings at the highest level of appeal, was made in full knowledge of setting precedent and not for the satisfaction of just one plaintiff.

The two former fats culd point to a corrupt law, which really only serves the self-interests of a select few individuals for money,thus essentially only being made for profit(profit off 300,000 "abortions" yearly).

I must say that if the Supreme Court is swayed by the commercial interests of so few medical practitioners, then it must be hugely more corrupt when dealing with oil, steel or media interests. Or the medical industry in general, of which the provision of abortions is a tiny fraction.

Secondly, It is my belief that this is depriving young parents of valuable learning experiences, whichis the lesson of pain in life and consequences of reckless actions, which would b having to take care of the child, or fin a offspring of yours taken away by strangers, which is actually a mercy compared to having the child killed at birth, watching it being ton limb from limb in a grinder.

"Partial birth abortion" right?

Pro-lifers got that banned. Their concern for the "suffering of the fetus" would have been better served by requiring it be administered a general anesthetic. Partial birth abortion is icky yes (surgery generally is icky) but it has two advantages: it positions the fetus head down so it can be killed quickly, and it partially dilates the woman's vagina for easy removal. In cases of late-term abortion (a tiny majority of abortions btw) it's the most compassionate option for both woman and fetus, but you lot got it banned. Because it's icky.

Thid, look at the people whom have the abortions done, specifically the youner ones.

Why? Why look only at teenagers having abortions? They're a very small minority of all women seeking abortions.

In fact, half of abortions are obtained by women who already have already given birth to one or more children.

They get it done because of the environment they are in, to sum it up in a generic sense. It's partly due to peer pressure and media, promoting sex as a thing you must do early. It's due to bad parenting, because the parents should prepare their children for this world.

And what does it achieve to force those young women through something they don't want? What is the point of them "learning their lesson" at the expense of not just themselves but the born child?

Does that change "peer pressure and the media"? If those are to blame then why not address them directly?

FInally, I just see it as a convenient way for somebody whom is too selfish to get out of a hole they dug because they didn't want to practice safe sex.

Sometimes yes, but if this is your "official position on abortion" you grievously omit the other other cases: where a woman or girl was raped and conception occurred, where she did her best to use safe sex but was either misinformed or the contraception failed, where the pregnancy poses higher than expected risks for her, where the pregnancy poses higher than expected risks for the fetus, or where she entered willingly into pregnancy but her circumstances later changed.

By that I mean, the phrase of a "customer" to an abortion clinic saying "Hey, I'm pregnant with a child sue to my own stupidity. Here, takes thousands of my dollars to literally tear peice of my body out of me and cause me harm."

You say you're not religious, but you sound just like them. Abortion isn't harmful, when compared to pregnancy. Like any medical procedure it has risks, but those are very low compared to pregnancy-to-term.

Or if you mean psychological effects, well those follow from a sudden change in hormonal levels and can't be avoided by carrying the pregnancy to term. See post-natal depression.

If this is the entirety of your opinion on the subject, the only thing it would prove to others to "refer them here" is that you shoot your mouth off. That's the cheapest and shallowest of anti-abortion opinion (I've heard better from the 'conception is a gift from God' folk) and if it's your best shot then stop shooting.

[AiliailiA]

As libertarian, I believe anarchy can only work if we respect three simple values: life, liberty and property.

From my point of view, abortion is as ethically bad as murder or death penalty. To ban abortion is against liberty the same way as to ban murder. If we get relativist, it's time to seriously think why murder is such a bad thing, right?

I'm not telling women to get pregnant against their will, I just say there are a lot of ways to not to get pregnant - contraceptives, day-after pill... thus making abortion avoidable and unnecessary.

A vegan libertarian then?

Or do you oppose the killing of plants too?

[Mavorpen]

I already stated that you cannot "regrow" nutrients, they are not regrowable because they do not grow, they are combinations of molecules and are acquired from food and other sources of NUTRITION. The argument I am trying to make is that they are easily replaceable whereas a lung is not, and even I would say that taking part of someone's liver is not good. I disagree that they are more similar and different, an organ is not the same as a few cells or molecules.

Too bad an organ is nothing more than...you guessed it, a bunch of cells!

[Tsuntion]

*sigh* Yes, in all cases, to reduce deaths among other things.

[AiliailiA]

There is no biological definition of murder.

OK, it is killing. I will say it is also murder because it is pre-planned by the woman. Killing something on purpose even with just one cell is murder.

When you take a shit, you deliberately and knowingly kill millions of single-celled organisms. Bacteria. Some of them survive, but the vast majority perish quite simply because they are removed from the warm and predictable environment of your bowel.

They die of cold and malnutrition. Because you expelled them from your body.

The college biology teacher said this is why he views abortion as wrong. We all start as a single cell.

Which biology teacher? Surely you haven't been to college yet.

Abortion is sad, I wish we made it easier for people to get steralized. Encouraging this with propoganda campaigns would be a good step in the right direction. Uneducated and poor people should be encouraged to get steralized.

Uneducated people can get educated later, poor people can become wealthy (or at least self-sufficient) later.

Encouraging people to get sterilized, specifically because they are poor or uneducated, is Bad Eugenics. That's the kind of shit which gives Eugenics a bad name ... as if Hitler and the Nazis didn't do that well enough.

I'm for Eugenics. It's going to happen anyway, and it's going to give an unfair advantage to the offspring of the rich and it's going to reinforce existing social privileges of certain genetic types. I'm for Eugenics by the choice of parents, publicly subsidized, to even out that playing field. I don't pretend it can be perfectly even, but I do say that if some have it by paying for it, then all should have it at least to a minimum standard (as with health care).

That's what I call Good Eugenics. Lesser of two evils perhaps, but relatively good. What you're talking is Bad Eugenics. Nazi shit.

[The Steel Magnolia]

It's been nine hours since this thread started.

Nine hours, NSG!

[Ifreann]

Legal abortion is best abortion.

[Ashmoria]

I will post my opinion, So that this is will be known as my official stance on abortion. Thus if anybody was to ask me about this topic, I can simply defer them here. I do not wish to stir any antagonism, debate or argument. I am no an expert, and I don't have any experience with abortion clinics myself, yet. Now, with that said:

I am pro-life, not in the sense that you would assume. I'm not religious, in fact I'm against the christian, Jewish, & islamic religions(I will not go deeper into the topic, as that is for another thread altogether). I view life as an unalienable right. Life IS technically an unalienable right inthe United States of America, guaranteed by the US constitution(or the delcaration of independence, I can't remember which). Now Technically, the right to life is an unalienable right at birth. Thus there's a fallacy in my own logic, an I acknowledge that.

Now, it is my wish to see the practice of abortion banned. I support this argument with the fact that it was illegal whenthe United States was born, and was only made legal recently. There is also the fact that the people whom pushed for this bill to be passed was a special lobby group, whom used a woman as their speaker that now condemns the industry entirely. The two former fats culd point to a corrupt law, which really only serves the self-interests of a select few individuals for money,thus essentially only being made for profit(profit off 300,000 "abortions" yearly). Secondly, It is my belief that this is depriving young parents of valuable learning experiences, whichis the lesson of pain in life and consequences of reckless actions, which would b having to take care of the child, or fin a offspring of yours taken away by strangers, which is actually a mercy compared to having the child killed at birth, watching it being ton limb from limb in a grinder. Thid, look at the people whom have the abortions done, specifically the youner ones. They get it done because of the environment they are in, to sum it up in a generic sense. It's partly due to peer pressure and media, promoting sex as a thing you must do early. It's due to bad parenting, because the parents should prepare their children for this world. FInally, I just see it as a convenient way for somebody whom is too selfish to get out of a hole they dug because they didn't want to practice safe sex. By that I mean, the phrase of a "customer" to an abortion clinic saying "Hey, I'm pregnant with a child sue to my own stupidity. Here, takes thousands of my dollars to literally tear peice of my body out of me and cause me harm."

ohmygoodness

if you are going to use this as your go-to post on abortion rights you need to clean up your grammar, spelling, understanding of abortion procedures, history of abortion laws, and undestanding of why women get abortions.

otherwise it will end up being an utter embarrassment so strong that you have to leave NSG due to the shame of remembering what you wrote here.

[Ashmoria]

As libertarian, I believe anarchy can only work if we respect three simple values: life, liberty and property.

From my point of view, abortion is as ethically bad as murder or death penalty. To ban abortion is against liberty the same way as to ban murder. If we get relativist, it's time to seriously think why murder is such a bad thing, right?

I'm not telling women to get pregnant against their will, I just say there are a lot of ways to not to get pregnant - contraceptives, day-after pill... thus making abortion avoidable and unnecessary.

why does libertarian mean liberty for men only?