should abortion be legal?

[The Cookish States]

I'm pro-life. (I used to have a girlfriend that got an abortion, kinda fucked with my head a little, but that's neither here nor there).

I have seen the human side of it, it isn't easy for the person getting the abortion. So, I think that people should reserve the right to choose. Their choice reflects heavily on their characters in my opinion.

Then again as a Christian, in the realm of sin, I drink, smoke, and curse. I'm an admitted womanizer and I also tend to masturbate too much. This house I'm in, it seems to be made of glass, and it appears that it'd be unwise for me to throw stones...

So yeah, moral? Debatable. Legal? It should be.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I wonder..To the more philosophical readers of the thread, what happens to an unborn baby's soul? Will it even have a soul?

Nobody has a soul the end.
*clap clap clap*

[Norcroft]

I'm pro-life. (I used to have a girlfriend that got an abortion, kinda fucked with my head a little, but that's neither here nor there).

I have seen the human side of it, it isn't easy for the person getting the abortion. So, I think that people should reserve the right to choose. Their choice reflects heavily on their characters in my opinion.

Then again as a Christian, in the realm of sin, I drink, smoke, and curse. I'm an admitted womanizer and I also tend to masturbate too much. This house I'm in, it seems to be made of glass, and it appears that it'd be unwise for me to throw stones...

So yeah, moral? Debatable. Legal? It should be.

Im sorry to hear that Cook. Theres no real easy answer to questions like these.

[Condunum]

I wonder..To the more philosophical readers of the thread, what happens to an unborn baby's soul? Will it even have a soul?

Dante's Inferno, at least the game, had a particularly grotesque place for them.

[The Cookish States]

I'm pro-life. (I used to have a girlfriend that got an abortion, kinda fucked with my head a little, but that's neither here nor there).

I have seen the human side of it, it isn't easy for the person getting the abortion. So, I think that people should reserve the right to choose. Their choice reflects heavily on their characters in my opinion.

Then again as a Christian, in the realm of sin, I drink, smoke, and curse. I'm an admitted womanizer and I also tend to masturbate too much. This house I'm in, it seems to be made of glass, and it appears that it'd be unwise for me to throw stones...

So yeah, moral? Debatable. Legal? It should be.

Im sorry to hear that Cook. Theres no real easy answer to questions like these.

Which is why we must let individuals answer them on their own, no matter what our take on it is.

[Threlizdun]

Could you please provide me a link to the page of the thread where I claimed "I own women's bodies"? I do not remember ever saying this, or implying this.

Assuming your atypical discussion of the humanity of fetuses is meant to serve as an argument against the legality of abortion, then you said it right here.

[Norcroft]

guys lets just drop the pissing contest.

[Dyakovo]

I'm pro-life. (I used to have a girlfriend that got an abortion, kinda fucked with my head a little, but that's neither here nor there).

I have seen the human side of it, it isn't easy for the person getting the abortion. So, I think that people should reserve the right to choose. Their choice reflects heavily on their characters in my opinion.

Then again as a Christian, in the realm of sin, I drink, smoke, and curse. I'm an admitted womanizer and I also tend to masturbate too much. This house I'm in, it seems to be made of glass, and it appears that it'd be unwise for me to throw stones...

So yeah, moral? Debatable. Legal? It should be.

Im sorry to hear that Cook. Theres no real easy answer to questions like these.

Yes, there is.
Don't want an abortion? Don't get one. Let other people make their own decisions.

[Norcroft]

I wonder..To the more philosophical readers of the thread, what happens to an unborn baby's soul? Will it even have a soul?

Dante's Inferno, at least the game, had a particularly grotesque place for them.

hmm, this is a question for my pastor then. the guy knows a lot about hell.

[Norcroft]

Im sorry to hear that Cook. Theres no real easy answer to questions like these.

Yes, there is.
Don't want an abortion? Don't get one. Let other people make their own decisions.

i didnt mean to come off as defensive but yes, a choice has to be made.

[Sophian]

Could you please provide me a link to the page of the thread where I claimed "I own women's bodies"? I do not remember ever saying this, or implying this.

Assuming your atypical discussion of the humanity of fetuses is meant to serve as an argument against the legality of abortion, then you said it right here.

I never directly argued the legality of abortion. I provided information and said something along the lines of "seems kind of immoral to me". I also posted:

"I think the dilemma is that even though abortion is immoral, abortions will still occur whether they are legal or not. At least if abortion is legal & regulated, abortion clinics & doctors must meet government standards."

Maybe you should try stating information, instead of trying to put words in people's mouths and misquote them in an attempt to discredit them.

[Risottia]

I think everyone should have the right to do what they want with their body. I go to school with a lot of catholics that say the people that have had one or want one are "moral less". And "ungodly". But I'm atheist and I just don't see a problem with it like if your just to young and not ready for it. And of course life is an amazing one time thing. But once again, it's your body, you should do what you want with it.

More or less this.

Although the title puzzles me a bit. You mean that in your country abortion isn't legal?

[Battenburgia]

yes of course it should be legal....I've had one, and no fucker is going to force me to have a child I don't want.

If it had been illegal I would have tried a backstreet abortionist as would thousands of other women, and i've heard many horror stories of how they could turn out from my mother and others of her generation

[Threlizdun]

I never directly argued the legality of abortion. I provided information and said something along the lines of "seems kind of immoral to me". I also posted:

"I think the dilemma is that even though abortion is immoral, abortions will still occur whether they are legal or not. At least if abortion is legal & regulated, abortion clinics & doctors must meet government standards."

Maybe you should try stating information, instead of trying to put words in people's mouths and misquote them in an attempt to discredit them.

Sorry, I did not see the previous bit. Okay, I will not ask why you believe you own their bodies, as evidently you don't. I will ask you however you find it immoral for a woman to believe that she shouldn't be subjected to nine months of suffering rather than removing an undesirable parasite.

[Meritocratic States]

I've always been staunchly pro-choice... and I will admit some of my RL friends hated that certain quality of mine.

It's ultimately up for the woman to choose, if she wants the kid, congratulations. If you don't want the child? Well, there's your answer.

But interestingly enough, a question popped in when I tell people abortion should be legal.

"What about pregnant teens, should they be allowed to abort?" I kinda find this a hard question to answer.

A part of me wanted the pregnant teen and her partner to learn about the consequences of their actions, to give them a taste of child-bearing and taking care of the infant. But the sympathetic side of mine wanted them to be included in the abortion, to give them a second chance, keep them in school or something.

So yes for the question, abortion should be legal... but for the pregnant teens deserving abortion, I find that hard to answer.

[Threlizdun]

A part of me wanted the pregnant teen and her partner to learn about the consequences of their actions, to give them a taste of child-bearing and taking care of the infant. But the sympathetic side of mine wanted them to be included in the abortion, to give them a second chance, keep them in school or something.

What fucking twisted logic is that? "I believe in the right to bodily autonomy but on the other hand I love it when teenagers suffer."

[Sophian]

I never directly argued the legality of abortion. I provided information and said something along the lines of "seems kind of immoral to me". I also posted:

Maybe you should try stating information, instead of trying to put words in people's mouths and misquote them in an attempt to discredit them.

Sorry, I did not see the previous bit. Okay, I will not ask why you believe you own their bodies, as evidently you don't. I will ask you however you find it immoral for a woman to believe that she shouldn't be subjected to nine months of suffering rather than removing an undesirable parasite.

Because I think forcing another living thing to cease having a heartbeat is immoral.

[Meritocratic States]

A part of me wanted the pregnant teen and her partner to learn about the consequences of their actions, to give them a taste of child-bearing and taking care of the infant. But the sympathetic side of mine wanted them to be included in the abortion, to give them a second chance, keep them in school or something.

What fucking twisted logic is that? "I believe in the right to bodily autonomy but on the other hand I love it when teenagers suffer."

I don't really know how to word it properly. I'll get back to you on that.

[Risottia]

...If it had been illegal I would have tried a backstreet abortionist ...

Or merely cross the border and have an abortion in a more civilized country?

[Risottia]

Sorry, I did not see the previous bit. Okay, I will not ask why you believe you own their bodies, as evidently you don't. I will ask you however you find it immoral for a woman to believe that she shouldn't be subjected to nine months of suffering rather than removing an undesirable parasite.

Because I think forcing another living thing to cease having a heartbeat is immoral.

Are you vegetarian?

Anyway, let's keep on the thread. The thread is about abortion being legal or illegal, not about being moral or immoral. Morality =/= law.

[Dyakovo]

I think the dilemma is that even though abortion is immoral,

Except it isn't.

[Tubbsalot]

I think forcing another living thing to cease having a heartbeat is immoral.

wow you must really hate heart surgeons

[Threlizdun]

Because I think forcing another living thing to cease having a heartbeat is immoral.

So I suppose you would give an affirmative response to the hypothetical situation Ostroeuropa posted on the first page of this thread.

May as well dump this here now before i'm forced to drag it out later.

The "famous violinist" thought experiment asks a person to consider the ethics of a scenario where they wake to find themselves in a hospital serving as life support to a famous violinist. The person is asked to consider that they were not consulted prior to this arrangement, but that if they detach from the violinist he will die. Thomson wrote, "If you stay in the hospital bed, connected to the violinist, he will be totally cured in nine months. You are unlikely to suffer harm. No one else can save him. Do you have an obligation to stay connected?"

[Novairia]

Yes. No one owns the rights to a woman's body. Just like no one owns the rights to a man's body. End of discussion. Good night!

... Does that mean I have a say? Cause 1/2 of that parasite in her is made of my bodily DNA/Chromosomes.

I think it should be legal, BUT regulated. Just like drugs, just like alcohol, just like guns, legal but regulated is my stance.

A simple draft..

1. Abortion will be legal up to the point of 2.5 weeks before estimated due date. With exceptions and amendments to:
a) If the fetus becomes toxic and a threat to the mothers life, then the abortion is legal at that moment, no matter the time of pregnancy.
b) If the father (excluding rapists, divorced, etc, or ones deemed unfatherly by the court) objects to the abortion, the abortion procedure will not be carried out until a concensus is formed between the couple to proceed.
c) Family units (be it related by blood or organization) of the Mother/Father, have no say in the fetus's fate or abortion procedure. Tampering with would result in heavy monetary fines. The sole holders of the fetus decision is the Mother/Father unit.



That or have the dam kid, raise it till it is weened, then put it in the orphanarium so it can be adopted by people that want kids but can't have their own for multiple reasons.

[Threlizdun]

... Does that mean I have a say? Cause 1/2 of that parasite in her is made of my bodily DNA/Chromosomes.

I think it should be legal, BUT regulated. Just like drugs, just like alcohol, just like guns, legal but regulated is my stance.

A simple draft..

1. Abortion will be legal up to the point of 2.5 weeks before estimated due date. With exceptions and amendments to:
a) If the fetus becomes toxic and a threat to the mothers life, then the abortion is legal at that moment, no matter the time of pregnancy.
b) If the father (excluding rapists, divorced, etc, or ones deemed unfatherly by the court) objects to the abortion, the abortion procedure will not be carried out until a concensus is formed between the couple to proceed.
c) Family units (be it related by blood or organization) of the Mother/Father, have no say in the fetus's fate or abortion procedure. Tampering with would result in heavy monetary fines. The sole holders of the fetus decision is the Mother/Father unit.



That or have the dam kid, raise it till it is weened, then put it in the orphanarium so it can be adopted by people that want kids but can't have their own for multiple reasons.

So the father owns the woman's body, not the woman herself. It's great to know you seek centuries of regression in regards to gender equality