should abortion be legal?

[Vaklor]

Yes, they do have a right to choose what to do with their body. And they chose to get pregnant. (Unless it's rape, in which case I support it fully)
I think it should be legal for at least the first few months. If you let it get to the point where you have a bonafied baby inside of you, you've made your choice.

>States they want an abortion
>Claims they chose to be pregnant.

Obviously if I put out a fire, that means I wanted the fire to be there in the first place.

What is getting pregnant when young?

[Mavorpen]

>States they want an abortion
>Claims they chose to be pregnant.

Obviously if I put out a fire, that means I wanted the fire to be there in the first place.

What is getting pregnant when young?

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

[Vaklor]

What is getting pregnant when young?

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

[Frisbeeteria]

so all you far left-wing ignorant fucks can fuck off if you're thinking about getting into an argument about that

More than a bit over the top there, chief. Since you've got a clean record thus far, we'll just record this as an unofficial warning for flaming.

[Swirbland]

The "It's alive" argument is completely invalid: if you had a tumor, would you like to keep it? It is more alive than a fetus. So is the tuberculosis bacterium, doesn't mean we shouldn't eradicate it.

[Frisivisia]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Unless someone sets fire to your house, you chose to set your house on fire. Ban fire extinguishers.

[Mavorpen]

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

They chose to have sex. I didn't dispute this. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Do you now want to argue that consent to walking down he street is consent to being hit by a drunk driver?

[Olthar]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

[Neutraligon]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

No sex sometimes leads to pregnancy, and consent to sex does not mean consent to pregnancy, especially when people purposely attempt to prevent said pregnancy.

[Individuality-ness]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Condoms break. You accidentally skip a pill. Now what?

[Neutraligon]

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Condoms break. You accidentally skip a pill. Now what?

Or even if you take the pill properly, it doesn't work. It is rare, but you can still get pregnant even with you're tubes tied.

[Ifreann]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

The police consent to be shot. Therefore, ban medical treatment for gunshot wounds.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Condoms break. You accidentally skip a pill. Now what?

Or even if you take the pill properly, it doesn't work.

The best rate of success, I believe, is 99.2%?

[Individuality-ness]

Condoms break. You accidentally skip a pill. Now what?

Or even if you take the pill properly, it doesn't work.

And to add on: Diaphragms shift. You miss an injection. Now what?

[Mavorpen]

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Unless someone sets fire to your house, you chose to set your house on fire. Ban fire extinguishers.

Cut yourself with a knife? Shouldn't have chosen to cut tomatoes.

[Olthar]

Unless someone sets fire to your house, you chose to set your house on fire. Ban fire extinguishers.

Cut yourself with a knife? Shouldn't have chosen to cut tomatoes.

House gets blown up? Shouldn't have chosen to live in a warzone.

[Neutraligon]

Or even if you take the pill properly, it doesn't work.

And to add on: Diaphragms shift. You miss an injection. Now what?

Adding on to that, you don't know how to properly use the form of birth control so you use it wrong.

[Frisbeeteria]

You are as usual wrong, Atheist.
Then prove it, Atheist!

Using "Atheist" as a pejorative is attacking the player, not the argument, and therefore *** flaming ***. You've done so multiple times, and IT WILL STOP.

Since this is your first warning, I'm only tapping you with an unofficial warning. Knock it off, and get your temper under control.

[Neutraligon]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Since I haven't got an answer to how would it be dealt with, how would you deal witht he fact that banning abortion would just move it back to the black market for poor women?

[Individuality-ness]

And to add on: Diaphragms shift. You miss an injection. Now what?

Adding on to that, you don't know how to properly use the form of birth control so you use it wrong.

In essence - protection fails all the time, and it's not the woman's fault. Forcing the woman to carry a child that was a resultant of failed protection is hence coercive - against her will.

Consent to sex =! consent to pregnancy.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Adding on to that, you don't know how to properly use the form of birth control so you use it wrong.

In essence - protection fails all the time, and it's not the woman's fault. Forcing the woman to carry a child that was a resultant of failed protection is hence coercive - against her will.

Consent to sex =! consent to pregnancy.

I'm going to get jumped for this, I know it.

*Fearful person is fearful*

I agree that a woman should not be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. Why, then, should a man be forced to pay for a child based on the same logic?

[Nua Corda]

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

If I pay for gas with my credit card, and the gas station attendant uses a piggyback device he installed on the pump to steal my identity, should he be charged with theft? I consented to using my credit card to buy gas, didn't I?

[Vaklor]

Unless someone sets fire to your house, you chose to set your house on fire. Ban fire extinguishers.

Nice strawman there. Because I totally said abortion should be banned, and fetuses are totally like fires, amirite?

They chose to have sex. I didn't dispute this. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Do you now want to argue that consent to walking down he street is consent to being hit by a drunk driver?

If they don't have the forethought to realize having sex could likely lead to pregnancy, that's not my fault. Sex is designed to achieve pregnancy. Sidewalks are not designed to be hit by a car while walking. Again, never said it should be completely banned.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

See above.

No sex sometimes leads to pregnancy, and consent to sex does not mean consent to pregnancy, especially when people purposely attempt to prevent said pregnancy.

Then get an abortion.

Condoms break. You accidentally skip a pill. Now what?

Get an abortion.

The police consent to be shot. Therefore, ban medical treatment for gunshot wounds.

Because I totally said abortion should be banned.

Cut yourself with a knife? Shouldn't have chosen to cut tomatoes.

Making snarky remarks sure will solve everything. Sex is built around pregnancy. A kitchen knife is not built around accidentally cutting yourself.

Since I haven't got an answer to how would it be dealt with, how would you deal witht he fact that banning abortion would just move it back to the black market for poor women?

This is like the fifth time I've had to say I never said abortion should be banned.

In essence - protection fails all the time, and it's not the woman's fault. Forcing the woman to carry a child that was a resultant of failed protection is hence coercive - against her will.

Consent to sex =! consent to pregnancy.

If the protection fails, then get an abortion.

If I pay for gas with my credit card, and the gas station attendant uses a piggyback device he installed on the pump to steal my identity, should he be charged with theft? I consented to using my credit card to buy gas, didn't I?

That's ridiculous and you know it. Having sex is very different than stealing someone's identity. Why do you think that I wish to apply my thinking on this ONE issue to everything else? You would not have known about this piggyback device. Surely you must realize that there is the risk of pregnancy in sex. But, again, let me state it: IF YOU WANT AN ABORTION, THEN FUCKING GET ONE

[Transhuman Proteus]

>States they want an abortion
>Claims they chose to be pregnant.

Obviously if I put out a fire, that means I wanted the fire to be there in the first place.

What is getting pregnant when young?

"Getting" is the problem word in your thinking, it seems to imply an active desire to enter into the state of something. "Getting high", "getting laid", "getting plastered".

A better word would be "becoming". What is becoming pregnant when young? Exactly what it says on the tin. It doesn't necessarily imply they wanted it, or they didn't. The ones that didn't wish to become pregnant, or don't wish to continue to be pregnant, will seek an abortion. The ones that don't care they have become pregnant or wished to be pregnant will allow the pregnancy to go to term.

Getting pregnant while young.

They don't choose to become pregnant. Otherwise they wouldn't be seeking to terminate the pregnancy.

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

Yes, sex. That is all. A million things we do can have undesired/not bad side effects if we choose to do them, from driving to having surgery to drinking wine to getting a job with X Y or Z. Of course it is sensible to minimize the risks of the undesired, but it is absurd to think that simply by choosing to do something you are wanting the side effect, or deserve the side effect.

You want to drink? That can lead to a murderous hangover, but you chose to drink so you wanted that hangover. No pill to reduce the effects for you, you need to live with the consequences. Oh, and you wanted a roaring log fire in your living room? Do you know the statistics for open fires leading to uncontrolled fires? Well, you lit it, so no fire extinguisher for you. You need to live with the consequences.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Unless it's rape, they chose to have sex. Sex often leads to pregnancy. If you don't want kids, don't have sex (least not without a condom or somesuch). I don't care about "peer pressure" or that other bullshit, you make your own choices in life.

If I pay for gas with my credit card, and the gas station attendant uses a piggyback device he installed on the pump to steal my identity, should he be charged with theft? I consented to using my credit card to buy gas, didn't I?

You, in fact, consented to insert your credit card into the willing gas station pump. The intercourse was consensual.