Cause of Homosexuality and Bisexuality

[Jormengand]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan.

Uh... omnipotent god making mistakes? Lolwut?

There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal.

Nor is being male.

Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

So long as you are not violating people's rights, I don't care if you do so.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public.

Why not?

Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

Cool. I don't care what your opinion is.

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out? We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

If the dog were capable of consent and did so, I would be fine with it.

Lrn2Rational arguments.

[Tsuntion]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan. There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal.

I'm not going to ask you for a source, I'm not going to ask you why bringing God into it is relevant here, I'm not going to point out that "not normal" isn't "bad". I'm going to ask you why the hell it matters whether someone is "meant" to be gay or not.

In short: You support treating us as second-class citizens.

Good to know, I guess that's settled then.

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

So you confirm Volnotova's statement. Again, good to know.

[The Addams Family]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

I am bisexual, what does that make me?

Your genes got pulverized, as in teleportation. No, (lol) man. Do we agree it's the toss of the dice, anyway?

[Volnotova]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan.

Uh... omnipotent god making mistakes? Lolwut?

He does this to troll us, shush.

EDIT: Just to be clear here, G-d that is.

[Freiheit Reich]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan. There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

I thought animals lacked free will? If so, then they cannot possibly be deviant, as they lack the ability to choose that.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

Why? What makes two gays "loving" each other in public unacceptable, aside from your outdated and archaic beliefs?

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out? We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

Bestiality does not equal homosexuality. They are two entirely different things and in no way are related.

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

[Freiheit Reich]

I said 'besides rape.' For example, kissing or touching the dog innappropriately.

That is rape. Dogs, and most other animals, cannot give consent as humans define it.

It is molesting, not rape. There is no sex involved. Ask Bill Clinton about what sexual relations means.

[Mavorpen]

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

I would rather prevent them from holding your views. My male offspring sodomizing someone else's male offspring harms no one.

[Volnotova]

I thought animals lacked free will? If so, then they cannot possibly be deviant, as they lack the ability to choose that.

Why? What makes two gays "loving" each other in public unacceptable, aside from your outdated and archaic beliefs?

Bestiality does not equal homosexuality. They are two entirely different things and in no way are related.

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

No, I would not want to prevent that.

In fact, I would prefer my children to be bi like me and to appreciate people regardless of gender/sex.

[Jormengand]

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Yes, but they cannot give informed consent.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK.

Then they would be correct.

Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable.

Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because...

Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

Wrong.

[Herrebrugh]

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

Gays who kiss each other ARE okay.

And I doubt many people here would care if their kid turned out gay. I presume they would love that kid no matter what, like parents are supposed to.

[The Daktanese Technocracy]

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

Of course! I mean, then they have to miss out on one sex. Better to just be bisexual like me. Course, comes with the problem of having to pick just one sex to be married too at some point, but that's why polygamy exists.

Or you know, everything you've said is false, but that's already been established

[Tsuntion]

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

1) I'm wondering how animals having free will complies with your oft-Biblical views.
2) Animals have different personalities, sure. So do people. This doesn't mean that animals have free will.
3) Insects are animals too, and I expect there are good flies and bad flies -- we just don't study and interact with them enough to notice.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK.

Good.

Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable.

Why?

Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

1) I do not see a reason to want to prevent it.
2) I am quite sure that seeing two men kiss will not turn a child gay.

[Northern Dominus]

I thought animals lacked free will? If so, then they cannot possibly be deviant, as they lack the ability to choose that.

Why? What makes two gays "loving" each other in public unacceptable, aside from your outdated and archaic beliefs?

Bestiality does not equal homosexuality. They are two entirely different things and in no way are related.

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

So you're worried about a consenting same-sex couple displaying affection in public.

See, what's more concerning are public displays of ignrance and hate. I'm far more worried about the impressionable youth of this world seeing pithy ignroant caustic demonstrations that demonize humans as "the other" because of a deliberate lack of understanding regarding human sexual orientation and gender identity. That is a far worse influence on children then any public display of adult affection, sexual orientations and gender regardless.

Case in point, if I was in the park with my theoretical chldren, and I came upon a square where on one side there was a same-sex couple holding hands and kissing innocently, and on the other there was a person just like you preaching how all LGBT people are evil and the other and abominations, I'd very quickly move away from person preaching hate because I'd rather have to field questions about why two men or women are kissing rather than why some person can be so hateful and why the police don't arrest that bad person.

[Volnotova]

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

So you're worried about a consenting same-sex couple displaying affection in public.

See, what's more concerning are public displays of ignrance and hate. I'm far more worried about the impressionable youth of this world seeing pithy ignroant caustic demonstrations that demonize humans as "the other" because of a deliberate lack of understanding regarding human sexual orientation and gender identity. That is a far worse influence on children then any public display of adult affection, sexual orientations and gender regardless.

[The Land of the Red Rainbow]

Dump.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 ... 1570481223
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9549243

And this,

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

So you're worried about a consenting same-sex couple displaying affection in public.

See, what's more concerning are public displays of ignrance and hate. I'm far more worried about the impressionable youth of this world seeing pithy ignroant caustic demonstrations that demonize humans as "the other" because of a deliberate lack of understanding regarding human sexual orientation and gender identity. That is a far worse influence on children then any public display of adult affection, sexual orientations and gender regardless.

[Esternial]

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable. Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

Gays who kiss each other ARE okay.

And I doubt many people here would care if their kid turned out gay. I presume they would love that kid no matter what, like parents are supposed to.

And there's less chance that they'll knock someone up.

[Choronzon]

Animals have free will in many cases. There are bad dogs and good dogs. Some cats I met are friendly, others are jerks. Of course, animals have different thought processes than most humans but I believe animals have free will. Doubtful about insects though.

Oh man...

Gays kissing each other make impressionable kids think it is OK. Kids should not raised to think this and must be taught that this is not acceptable.

Right, you're tolerant you just want to make sure those icky faggots are viewed as pariahs.

Imagine if you had a child that turned out gay. You want to prevent that right?

I'd be ok with it because I'm not a bad person.

I'd rather my kid be be gay than think like you.

[Jormengand]

Dump.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 ... 1570481223
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9549243

Sources. By scientists! You'll do well in NSG.

And this,

So you're worried about a consenting same-sex couple displaying affection in public.

See, what's more concerning are public displays of ignrance and hate. I'm far more worried about the impressionable youth of this world seeing pithy ignroant caustic demonstrations that demonize humans as "the other" because of a deliberate lack of understanding regarding human sexual orientation and gender identity. That is a far worse influence on children then any public display of adult affection, sexual orientations and gender regardless.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Stop right there.

No, it bloody well does not.

The fact that events throughout your lifetime have shaped who you are today is simply a fact. It does not carry value judgment inherent to it.

My food preferences have been shaped by my experiences throughout life, but that doesn't mean my preference for artichokes is due to some "traumatic event." Ditto my sexual preferences.


IF someone makes that argument, THEN you can argue against it.


You need to re-read my post.

"Genetic baseline" does not mean what you seem to think.

Your dichotomy between "genetics" and "choice" is wrong.


Except, see, no. It's not. That was my post, you see. That "genetics" does not do what you seem to think, that everything we currently know about how DNA is related to complex human emotions/behaviors leads to the conclusion that you are wrong, and that you are incorrect when you try to draw this line with "choice" on one side and "genes" on the other.


Oh, I understand why some people find it offensive: they don't understand genetics, or physiology, or psychology, or any of the body of modern research on human sexuality.

Many people are offended by facts. Facts remain undeterred.

Okay, well since you have all these facts on your side regardless of possibility otherwise, answer me this; why does conversion therapy result in rampant depression and too often, suicide? If the notion of "choice" is in any way correct then human brains should be amicable to that change. A little depression at losing something maybe, but not the deep deep abysmal depression and certainly not a personal crisis that can only be solved through the taking of ones life.

Perhaps there's something else at work here, something so deeply rooted within a person that attempts to alter it result in such conflicts to render the notion an asinine one, if not outright dangerous? Perhaps choice factors in, just not to the degree that people would like to believe that they have regarding their sexuality?

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/the- ... ve-therapy.

You keep missing the point and I'm honestly baffled how someone who expresses himself as eloquently as you do constantly displays such poor reading comprehension. No one is arguing that one can simply change their sexual or gender identity preferences on a whim (though frankly it shouldn't even matter if they could - it's still a dickish thing to do to judge folks for it).

Bottle was responding to your own retort towards a post that posited that all sorts of experiences (that would nonetheless constantly interact with one's genetic makeup, so I don't really agree with his downplaying of science and genetics, which rests on a false dichotomy anyway) go towards the formation of one's gender identity, which for some bizarre and inexplicable reason you interpreted as saying "it's completely a choice". That wasn't the point at all. That post was about, to iterate, drawing attention to all the complex and intricate factors that go towards the formation of one's gender identity. That's all it was. That you read it as a an attempted vindication of the 'it's completely a choice position' whilst concomitantly (you argue) providing justification for putting people into therapy for their sexual and gender preferences, was frankly, staggeringly insane.

In any case the subtle narrative you're setting up carries with it just as insidious an undertext as the one you're trying to warn against. You are conceding ground to bigots who argue that if it can be demonstrated that whatever other than being cisgender and heterosexual is a choice, then it's totally alright to go and harass and belittle LGBT people and encourage them to seek treatment for their sexuality and identity preferences.

The truth is, it really doesn't fucking matter if it's a choice or not as far as courtesy and tolerance are concerned. Geneticisists, psychologists, whatever, can investigate the reasons for the entire spectrum of human sexuality and gender identity to add to our knowledge and understanding, and that's fine. But as far as day to day social relations are concerned, with regard to how much conscious agency or the lack thereof LGBT engage in pertinent to their sexual/gender identity formation I simply don't give a damn. I am not going to judge and belittle people, and encourage them to seek treatment for their gender or sexuality whatever the reasons for their preferences. That is the attitude that should be encouraged, and it's not going to be encouraged by frivolous bickering over whether or not it's a choice. The arguments you are using are counterproductive.

[Esternial]

I'd rather my kid be be gay than think like you.

I'd take him out of my last will and testament if he did.

[The Addams Family]

I am bisexual, what does that make me?

Your genes got pulverized, as in teleportation. No, (lol) man. Do we agree it's the toss of the dice, anyway?

I guess so!

[Volnotova]

Your genes got pulverized, as in teleportation. No, (lol) man. Do we agree it's the toss of the dice, anyway?

I guess so!

Lolwut?

Replying to your self, are we?

[The Addams Family]

I guess so!

Lolwut?

Replying to your self, are we?

Sure, man. It's a family trait.

[Ceannairceach]

That is rape. Dogs, and most other animals, cannot give consent as humans define it.

It is molesting, not rape. There is no sex involved. Ask Bill Clinton about what sexual relations means.

More aptly, it is sexual assault, as the animal cannot consent to the sexual advances.

[Oneracon]

I'd rather my kid be be gay than think like you.

I'd take him out of my last will and testament if he did.

If my kid is LGBT, that's fine.

But may [insert deity here] have mercy on them if they're a right-winger.