Cause of Homosexuality and Bisexuality

[Freiheit Reich]

It is weird and shouldn't be acceptable.

Why/why not?

Gays/bisexuals can be violent as well. In prisons many people become gay and victimize other men. This is proof people can choose to be bisexual. People say it is about power but it is still homosexual behavior.

Homo/bisexuals can be violent? No shit. Also, source?

There was a case in my city of an older man drugging a neighbors drink and raping him (not smart because he was easily caught). Another case of gay rape.

Straight people commit rape as well. Doesn't mean I think that heterosexuality is "weird and shouldn't be accepted".

Also, it is gross behavior. Imagine if a man on the bus smeared feces on himself. Wouldn't you be offended if you were on the bus next to him? He made his weird actions public. If he did it at home and you didn't know than it would be OK right? Same case with guys kissing each other on the lips in public or pinching each other on the butt. It is offensive.

Uhm... How does a person on the bus smearing feces on himself compare to two homosexuals simply loving each other? And I dislike it when people make out in public no matter their sexual orientation, though, I don't mind a simple kiss on the mouth.

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan. There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out? We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

[The Daktanese Technocracy]

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out?

wait wot.

Did you just imply that I'd not be grossed out if he was raping the dog

[Freiheit Reich]

In some countries like Uganda it is illegal to be gay so it is not consensual. If 2 men love each other and have sex in Uganda does this mean they are raping each other because they are breaking a law?

There is legal and moral consent. The 12 year old can have moral/personal consent but the law says it is not legal consent. Same with gays in Uganda. In your eyes the Uganda men are not hurting each other right? Is the 40 year old hurting the 12 year old?

I am tolerant though. I don't want homosexuality against the law, I just don't want it to be encouraged by legalizing gay marriage. Gays should also not be protected under the Civil Rights Act. Don't ban it but don't encourage it either. I am not liberal, I am a moderate on this issue. A hard core right winger would say ban it.

In short: You support treating us as second-class citizens.

Good to know, I guess that's settled then.

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

[Veceria]

12 year olds are usually below the age of consent. So it wouldn't be consensual.
Otherwise, yes, consensual usually means nobody gets harmed, regarding law stuff.

In some countries like Uganda it is illegal to be gay so it is not consensual. If 2 men love each other and have sex in Uganda does this mean they are raping each other because they are breaking a law?

Technically, yes. But what does that have to do with everything else?

There is legal and moral consent. The 12 year old can have moral/personal consent but the law says it is not legal consent. Same with gays in Uganda. In your eyes the Uganda men are not hurting each other right? Is the 40 year old hurting the 12 year old?

It's funny that you compare the situation with one in Uganda, where homosexuals are usually either imprisoned or killed just because they're homosexual (and sometimes just because someone else accuses a person of being homosexual - similarity to inquisition and witch hunting several hundred years ago). The 40-year old isn't hurting the 12-year old (most likely). He's breaking ('hurting') a law, simple as that. It's not legal consent.

I am tolerant though. I don't want homosexuality against the law, I just don't want it to be encouraged by legalizing gay marriage. Gays should also not be protected under the Civil Rights Act. Don't ban it but don't encourage it either. I am not liberal, I am a moderate on this issue. A hard core right winger would say ban it.

Legalizing gay marriage won't encourage homosexuality. If you want to exclude 'gays' from the civil right act, do the same with heterosexuals. They're just the same - human. And I wouldn't call that moderate at all. Homophobic is the better word, especially in your case.

[Herrebrugh]

Why/why not?



Homo/bisexuals can be violent? No shit. Also, source?



Straight people commit rape as well. Doesn't mean I think that heterosexuality is "weird and shouldn't be accepted".



Uhm... How does a person on the bus smearing feces on himself compare to two homosexuals simply loving each other? And I dislike it when people make out in public no matter their sexual orientation, though, I don't mind a simple kiss on the mouth.

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan.

And what if I don't believe in God? It's also quite interesting you know God's plan. Ever met him? What does he look like?

There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

I think rubbing feces on yourself is definitely weird. How this relates to homosexuality, however, is beyond me.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

Why the hell not?

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out? We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

A man kissing a dog is not comparable to a man kissing another (consenting) man. Please, try again.

[Veceria]

This was not God's plan.

Ah, sorry. Thought this was a serious debate.

[Freiheit Reich]

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out?

wait wot.

Did you just imply that I'd not be grossed out if he was raping the dog

I said 'besides rape.' For example, kissing or touching the dog innappropriately.

[The Addams Family]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

[Ceannairceach]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan. There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

I thought animals lacked free will? If so, then they cannot possibly be deviant, as they lack the ability to choose that.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

Why? What makes two gays "loving" each other in public unacceptable, aside from your outdated and archaic beliefs?

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out? We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

Bestiality does not equal homosexuality. They are two entirely different things and in no way are related.

[S-Mart]

Stop right there.

No, it bloody well does not.

The fact that events throughout your lifetime have shaped who you are today is simply a fact. It does not carry value judgment inherent to it.

My food preferences have been shaped by my experiences throughout life, but that doesn't mean my preference for artichokes is due to some "traumatic event." Ditto my sexual preferences.


IF someone makes that argument, THEN you can argue against it.


You need to re-read my post.

"Genetic baseline" does not mean what you seem to think.

Your dichotomy between "genetics" and "choice" is wrong.


Except, see, no. It's not. That was my post, you see. That "genetics" does not do what you seem to think, that everything we currently know about how DNA is related to complex human emotions/behaviors leads to the conclusion that you are wrong, and that you are incorrect when you try to draw this line with "choice" on one side and "genes" on the other.


Oh, I understand why some people find it offensive: they don't understand genetics, or physiology, or psychology, or any of the body of modern research on human sexuality.

Many people are offended by facts. Facts remain undeterred.

Okay, well since you have all these facts on your side regardless of possibility otherwise, answer me this; why does conversion therapy result in rampant depression and too often, suicide? If the notion of "choice" is in any way correct then human brains should be amicable to that change. A little depression at losing something maybe, but not the deep deep abysmal depression and certainly not a personal crisis that can only be solved through the taking of ones life.

Perhaps there's something else at work here, something so deeply rooted within a person that attempts to alter it result in such conflicts to render the notion an asinine one, if not outright dangerous? Perhaps choice factors in, just not to the degree that people would like to believe that they have regarding their sexuality?.

You do not understand the argument being made. Your use of the term "choice" for things that are not genetically based is objectionable. As a result of my childhood, I love to read books as an adult. And you could beat me every time I read a book, but that would not change my love for reading books, and your efforts to prevent me from reading books might lead me to be depressed. I am a gay man, and I would argue the same is true for my homosexuality; it is a product of my childhood. I did not choose it, and it is not something you could change about me, but that does not mean it is genetic.

There are things about people that are environmentally determined and have nothing to do with genetics. Those things are not choices. They still effect people's lives in ways that are out of their control.

[Northern Dominus]

In short: You support treating us as second-class citizens.

Good to know, I guess that's settled then.

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

How about this; if people have to hide their gayness, then the pious have to return their faith, because that too might offend a minority of people who get rather torqued off at pithy stupid things.

Deal?

[Baltenstein]

In short: You support treating us as second-class citizens.

Good to know, I guess that's settled then.

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

Other people should be forced to hide who they are
I, on the other hand, should have the right to express myself freely
mine is an awesome reasoning

[Ceannairceach]

wait wot.

Did you just imply that I'd not be grossed out if he was raping the dog

I said 'besides rape.' For example, kissing or touching the dog innappropriately.

That is rape. Dogs, and most other animals, cannot give consent as humans define it.

[The Daktanese Technocracy]

wait wot.

Did you just imply that I'd not be grossed out if he was raping the dog

I said 'besides rape.' For example, kissing or touching the dog innappropriately.

I know. You excluding rape of the dog implies that'd be the reason where it stopped being gross.

My, it sure is dicks in here

[Volnotova]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan.

According to which religion/philosophy?

Homosexuality and bisexuality has been proven to exist in numerous species, and it existed even before the many (warped) interpetations of (various) religious scriptures.

There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

Are you trying to pull an Argumentum ad Populum? here?

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

I love the fact love between people of the same sex is mentioned in (roughly) the same breath as (implied) coprophilia...

[Choronzon]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay.

Then why are some animals gay?

This was not God's plan.

Fuck your god and his "plan."

There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal.

I'm still waiting for some sort of backing for it being abnormal.

Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

I ignored this asinine comparison the first time because I'm a nice guy, but you're really pushing your luck.

The gays can love each other but don't make it public.

As long as they remain pariahs and have to hide who they are you're cool with it. You're so tolerant.

Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

This is the part where you demonstrate that there is any sort of connection between sexual orientation and rubbing feces on yourself.

If you saw a man french kissing his dog in public and doing other sexual things with it (besides rape) wouldn't you be grossed out?

Animals cannot consent, and sexual acts in public are illegal. We're not talking about public sex. What is your fixation with doin' it in public?

We all have different standards of norms I guess. This is cultural relativism. I am more traditional than you I guess.

The word you're looking for is "bigoted."

And thats me putting it nicely.

[Ceannairceach]

In short: You support treating us as second-class citizens.

Good to know, I guess that's settled then.

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

Alternatively, people will discriminate against those they think are gay. The problem is not solved.

[Northern Dominus]

Weird: Animals and humans were not meant to be gay. This was not God's plan.

According to which religion/philosophy?

Homosexuality and bisexuality has been proven to exist in numerous species, and it existed even before the many (warped) interpetations of (various) religious scriptures.

There are deviant people and animals but this is not normal. Of course weird is a personal opinion. Rubbing feces on yourself may not be weird to everybody but to many it is weird.

Are you trying to pull an Argumentum ad Populum? here?

The gays can love each other but don't make it public. Of course this is opinion as well (just like the rubbing feces).

I love the fact love between people of the same sex is mentioned in (roughly) the same breath as (implied) coprophilia...

Oh fuck, Martin Ssempa has just shown up. Who spoke his name three times in a mirror THIS time?

[The Daktanese Technocracy]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

Uh, no.

I am a male that wants to have sex with other males. I'm not a female, I don't particularly want to be female (THough it'd be cool to experience for a day), I just think male on male sex is hot.

[Ceannairceach]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

What? No. You're thinking of transgender and transsexual folks.

[Veceria]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

Nope. It's a male in a male body, or a female in a female body. Otherwise this would be more fitting for transsexualism.

[Herrebrugh]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

Sorry. I love my dick.

[Volnotova]

If they hide the gayness than nobody will know and they are treated equally. Blacks couldn't hide their color which hurt them before the law was passed. There is a difference.

I am not going to hide/lie about my sexuality in order to conform to your warped worldview.

Also, can't you look the other way?

Besides, there are many people/practises/believes that offend me and others, you and your's are among them.

[Volnotova]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

I am bisexual, what does that make me?

[The Daktanese Technocracy]

Well, I think homosexuality is a female in a male body crying out for liberation. By the same token, lesbianism is a male in a female body. Then there are those effeminate males who are heterosexual--lesbian females in male bodies and 'Tom boy' females--homosexual males in female bodies. Yeah, I guess it's all the cosmic (proverbial) toss of the [genetic] dice.

I am bisexual, what does that make me?

The superior race, of course!