Cause of Homosexuality and Bisexuality

[Northern Dominus]

Having heterosexual intercourse is actually one of the least significant parts of the process, over all.

Thats why the British did away with it in favor of buggery and hot water bottles, and we're doing fine.

Yeah but the daily mail says a lot about people breeding a lot and...
Wait, the Daily Mail says a lot of shit, doesn't it?

[Tubbsalot]

Well, given that the most obvious sign of a biological driver for a behaviour is that it's found in almost all members of a species, I'd say there's a decent case for it off that alone. Couple it with the fact that a "productive" sexuality is standard-issue across almost all of the animal kingdom, and it's pretty difficult to dismiss as being rooted in culture.

Again, it's not a matter of "genes" versus "culture." Genetics and society are just two of the broad spectrum of possible factors.

And "productive" sexuality is irrelevant here, since there is no evidence that homosexuality decreases reproductive success. Please remember that reproductive success is not defined by how many babies you make, it is defined by how successful you are at getting your genes into the next generation...if you make 10 babies but only one of them survives to adulthood, you are not especially "productive."

Among humans, with our extremely helpless young, care for existing offspring is actually more significant (in terms of time-sink and energy expenditure) in getting one's genes passed on. Having heterosexual intercourse is actually one of the least significant parts of the process, over all.

Well yeah, I'm aware of the potential benefits of having The Gay Gene floating around in the pool, but that only strengthens the assertion that there's a genetic basis for it. Sexuality might be less uniform among humans than other animals, but I don't see that it means it's less determined by genetics.

(And what would you suggest as a factor, aside from genetics and socialisation? There's the non-social environment, conditions in the womb and such, but so far as I know it's all just speculation.)

[Ifreann]

Same here.

Weird.

Olthar is Zweite Alaje, new headcanon.

[Olthar]

Weird.

Indeed. I had a weird moment with Threlizdun earlier. We both telegrammed eachother about my wanting to talk to them about transsexuality at the sametime, talk about coincidence.

I'm on the 26th, you?

Wow. You're only a single day older than me.

Weird.

Olthar is Zweite Alaje, new headcanon.

D':

[Zweite Alaje]

Indeed. I had a weird moment with Threlizdun earlier. We both telegrammed eachother about my wanting to talk to them about transsexuality at the sametime, talk about coincidence.

I'm on the 26th, you?

Wow. You're only a single day older than me.

Olthar is Zweite Alaje, new headcanon.

D':

Lol, wtf. That is weird!!!

Also, headcanon?

[Ifreann]

Indeed. I had a weird moment with Threlizdun earlier. We both telegrammed eachother about my wanting to talk to them about transsexuality at the sametime, talk about coincidence.

I'm on the 26th, you?

Wow. You're only a single day older than me.

Olthar is Zweite Alaje, new headcanon.

D':

Don't worry, I'm sure you're the pretty personality.

[Zweite Alaje]

Wow. You're only a single day older than me.


D':

Don't worry, I'm sure you're the pretty personality.

Lol, hey what is that supposed to mean? Please, explain this "head canon" thing.

[Olthar]

Don't worry, I'm sure you're the pretty personality.

Lol, hey what is that supposed to mean? Please, explain this "head canon" thing.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =headcanon

[Zweite Alaje]

Lol, hey what is that supposed to mean? Please, explain this "head canon" thing.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =headcanon

Ok, I don't see how that applies to us. I'm lost.

[PD Craftia]

I think your theory is wrong. I go to a high school where the percentages of non heterosexuals are the highest of any other school in my city. I've gotten used to them pretty quickly (I don't know whether I'm pan-sexual or just a heterosexual who supports all sexualities.). I personally think that for someone to become homosexual or bisexual or any sexuality in that matter is what they think of those things themselves and what sexuality they are comfortable with. It has nothing to do with genetics, but only with what they know about those sexualities and which sexual orientations they feel comfortable with.

Sincerely,
Perry (My real name is Caitlin.)

[Sarcalogos Roma]

I don't know why I was expecting to come on this thread and see a bunch of comments screaming about how "GOD HATES GAYS!!!1!'
I guess it's cause I live in Texas, where I can never really have a conversation about this topic and diversity can go fuck itself.

Don't get me wrong, I love Texas, but a lot of the people have the "Good Christian American" attitude.

Replace "Good Christian American" with "GODDAMN PATRIOT 'MURICAN" and you might be on the right track there.

That's not all Texans, but I've met like a hundred and they all give off that... Yeah...

Ya that's what I mean, not everybody is like that but the majority are and it's not just gays. Muslims, Jews, and Mexicans are another of people's favorite groups to hate on. And the worst part is, they think they are the good guys for being total dicks to these people!

[Avenio]

You mean CpG-site methylation? We know very little about epigenetic modification, but we do know that sexuality is not due to epigenetic factors alone. Take a gander back at a previous post of mine in this thread where I posted a twin study that proved as much.

Incidentally, why is it so hard to understand that there is no one-to-one gene mapping of complex traits like sexuality? It's as ludicrous as saying there is a gene for liking classical music, but at least three people have picked out this previous post in the thread dozens of pages back to try to argue as much.

But, that being said, most of us can agree that human sexual orientation is in no way a deliberate choice, right?

I should hope so. Believing that sexuality is a 'choice' is even more laughably ignorant than assuming a one-to-one genetic relationship, and has some ironically uncomfortable conclusions for the people that believe in it, if true.

[Volnotova]

Which is widely misinterpreted.

If you mean misinterpreted as that only the Jews should be following the Law and Leviticus is not for the Gentiles.... then yes it is a little misinterpreted.

No, it's also frequently mistranslated.

[Northern Dominus]

But, that being said, most of us can agree that human sexual orientation is in no way a deliberate choice, right?

I should hope so. Believing that sexuality is a 'choice' is even more laughably ignorant than assuming a one-to-one genetic relationship, and has some ironically uncomfortable conclusions for the people that believe in it, if true.

I assume then you've been laughing like a hyena at some of the other responses on this thread then

[Volnotova]

Not all churches support LBGT views. It is clear what God's stance is about gays. A good church will not turn away LBGT but they will tell them they are wrong for being that way and try to help them. Ignoring their problem does not make it go away.

Get lost, there is no passage either in the Old or New Testament that states Gays are "wrong".

I am tolerant. I think the govt. should not arrest people for being gay. I just think gays should have more respect and courtesy when it comes to showing their weird lifestyle to others. They can go out to dinner together but act like 'bros' and not like boyfriend and boyfriend. No holding hands in public please, common courtesy. If they act like 'bros' than nobody will suspect they are gay and everybody is happy.

Why? Why is it unacceptable for two people of the same sex to display their love?

And no, I for one will not be happy.

[JJ Place]

Hello NS. I am here because I recently found an article (lost it now) that suggested that there was a correlation between the temperature and hormones in the womb or something like that and homosexuality. This got me thinking as to the cause(s) of Homosexuality. My theory is it is all genetics.

I have met people who say that "it just is" and frankly I do not accept that line of argument as it has no backing in facts or evidence. From what I remember from Biology, a simple dumbed down version that is, is that one gender releases pheromones which the other gender detects and is attracted to. There is a difference in pheromone detection and production from male to female and inside the genders as well (explaining why you'd be attracted to one girl and not another). That is at least the way it was explained to me. Now basing off what my Bio teacher told me, I conclude that for someone to be Homosexual, they must detect the same sets of pheromones as opposed to just the opposite set. This would explain bisexuality as well, a person in that case detects both sets of pheromones. Well the next logical question is why. Why do homosexuals and bisexuals have this different detection system. Well the way I look at it is the brain. The brain is the center of everything and therefore it would be logical to assume that this attraction is different because the brains between a homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual person are different. What would explain their brains being different in the sense of attraction? their construction, and their construction was in their mother's womb according to the genetic blueprint. This would also explain homosexual behavior in other species as well. Therefore I conclude that the cause of homosexuality must be genetics or something else that connects to and can disrupt the construction of the brain. An answer for the question of "why is it so widespread then" could be simply stated that homosexuals concealed their desires for those of their own gender and had children causing their genes and the mutation to pass on to the children, in which case the gene could go unnoticed and or repressed for generations.

That is my view on the cause of homosexuality and bisexuality, I am curious as to what the opinions of those on NS are.

Somehow, I don't think anyone going to become a scientist because of this thread, or that anyone's going to make any breakthrough scientific discoveries on why people are gay and bisexual, respectively. Debating doesn't change the scientific reasoning why people are the sexualities they are; debating about cause doesn't change any of the factors.

[JJ Place]

I am tolerant.

No you're not.

[Freiheit Reich]

I am tolerant.

No you're not.

I don't hate gay people, I just view them as sexually deviant and strange and their behavior should not be encouraged.

I don't believe we need to arrest them or hurt them though. I can get along with them as long as I ignore the fact they are gay. I got along well with a flaming co-worker. I just ignored the fact he was gay (as best as I could) and talked to him about normal subjects. Ignoring that part of their lifestyle so you can get along is an example of tolerance.

[Choronzon]

I never quite understood the rush to determine what exactly "causes" homosexuality (beyond academic and intellectual inquiry into the human experience). It seems like the primary purpose among some people is to appease bigots, which is something I frankly have no interest in.

I don't care why someone in gay. The reason in no way shapes my view on the matter. They could be making a conscious decision to be homosexual and I'd still hold all the same beliefs.

[Mavorpen]

No you're not.

I don't hate gay people, I just view them as sexually deviant and strange and their behavior should not be encouraged.

I don't believe we need to arrest them or hurt them though. I can get along with them as long as I ignore the fact they are gay. I got along well with a flaming co-worker. I just ignored the fact he was gay (as best as I could) and talked to him about normal subjects. Ignoring that part of their lifestyle so you can get along is an example of tolerance.

And now I want to see someone run for president promising tax cuts to anyone that engages in homosexual behavior, just to annoy the people who are disgusted by it.

[Esternial]

I never quite understood the rush to determine what exactly "causes" homosexuality (beyond academic and intellectual inquiry into the human experience). It seems like the primary purpose among some people is to appease bigots, which is something I frankly have no interest in.

I don't care why someone in gay. The reason in no way shapes my view on the matter. They could be making a conscious decision to be homosexual and I'd still hold all the same beliefs.

My reasons are academic curiosity, but I wouldn't actively pursue any research myself.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I am tolerant.

I don't hate gay people, I just view them as sexually deviant and strange and their behavior should not be encouraged.

There two statements contradict each other.

And by all means, provide evidence to back up homosexuality and bisexuality being deviant and strange.

[Choronzon]

I am tolerant.

I don't hate gay people, I just view them as sexually deviant and strange and their behavior should not be encouraged.

There two statements contradict each other.

And by all means, provide evidence to back up homosexuality and bisexuality being deviant and strange.

He's not a bigot, he just thinks gays are icky freaks who should remain second class citizens.

[Divair]

I don't hate gay people, I just view them as sexually deviant and strange and their behavior should not be encouraged.

I don't believe we need to arrest them or hurt them though. I can get along with them as long as I ignore the fact they are gay. I got along well with a flaming co-worker. I just ignored the fact he was gay (as best as I could) and talked to him about normal subjects. Ignoring that part of their lifestyle so you can get along is an example of tolerance.

And now I want to see someone run for president promising tax cuts to anyone that engages in homosexual behavior, just to annoy the people who are disgusted by it.

Annoying the intolerant is always funny.

[The Nuclear Fist]

He's not a bigot, he just thinks gays are icky freaks who should remain second class citizens.

"I don't hate gays, I just think they're beneath me."

. . .

Wait.