Cause of Homosexuality and Bisexuality

[Menassa]

Yeah because it's 100%

I see what you did there.

Really?

Because I didn't.

[Gallopfrey and the Pony Republic Therof]

care to explain why?

Identical twins can have different sexual orientations.

There are such things as tags on genes which can be expressed differently in identical sets of DNA.

[Meryuma]

Poor life choices as a child.

And you call yourself an individualist anarchist?

[Towson]

Genetics and Hormonal Changes.

[Menassa]

Genetics and Hormonal Changes.

And Satan?

[Oneracon]

Genetics and Hormonal Changes.

And Satan?

It was Satan for m-

Wait, I thought we went through this already...

[Menassa]

And Satan?

It was Satan for m-

Wait, I thought we went through this already...

It's Satan for everybody.

You just got gypped.

[Zweite Alaje]

Not me, I'm 22 as well!

What's your birth month?

September.

Same here.

[Olthar]

September.

Same here.

Weird.

[Zweite Alaje]

Same here.

Weird.

Indeed. I had a weird moment with Threlizdun earlier. We both telegrammed eachother about my wanting to talk to them about transsexuality at the sametime, talk about coincidence.

I'm on the 26th, you?

[Avenio]

There are such things as tags on genes which can be expressed differently in identical sets of DNA.

You mean CpG-site methylation? We know very little about epigenetic modification, but we do know that sexuality is not due to epigenetic factors alone. Take a gander back at a previous post of mine in this thread where I posted a twin study that proved as much.

Incidentally, why is it so hard to understand that there is no one-to-one gene mapping of complex traits like sexuality? It's as ludicrous as saying there is a gene for liking classical music, but at least three people have picked out this previous post in the thread dozens of pages back to try to argue as much.

[Northern Dominus]

There are such things as tags on genes which can be expressed differently in identical sets of DNA.

You mean CpG-site methylation? We know very little about epigenetic modification, but we do know that sexuality is not due to epigenetic factors alone. Take a gander back at a previous post of mine in this thread where I posted a twin study that proved as much.

Incidentally, why is it so hard to understand that there is no one-to-one gene mapping of complex traits like sexuality? It's as ludicrous as saying there is a gene for liking classical music, but at least three people have picked out this previous post in the thread dozens of pages back to try to argue as much.

But, that being said, most of us can agree that human sexual orientation is in no way a deliberate choice, right?

[Bottle]

No it wouldn't. I have a good friend who is asexual, and he has two biological children.

Just like homosexual people often have biological children via heterosexual intercourse, asexual people can have biological children through intercourse as well.

Sex for pleasure is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not essential for our survival. Indeed, enjoyment of sex isn't even necessarily connected to procreation; I've enjoyed sex for years, and I've spent that whole time deliberately ensuring that I would not produce any children. My asexual friend has contributed more to the propagation of our species than I have.

Asexuality means "without sex or sexuality".

If your friend was truly an asexual, he would not have been able to biologically reproduce as it would have repulsed him so much that he would be unable to.

And if my homosexual friend were "truly a homosexual" he wouldn't have had a child with his wife, eh?

Nuts to your silly dictionary definitions. They simply do not apply in the real world, nor are they correct when talking about actual human sexuality.

[Divair]

I'd say genetics mostly, but not entirely.

[Tubbsalot]

Asexuality means "without sex or sexuality".

If your friend was truly an asexual, he would not have been able to biologically reproduce as it would have repulsed him so much that he would be unable to.

Uh, no, asexuality is commonly understood as no or very little desire for sexual activity. Whether or not you're totally grossed out by the ickiness of sex doesn't factor in.

[Bottle]

I'd say genetics mostly, but not entirely.

Interesting. Why?

I would say the opposite. I think human sexual preference is a lot more comparable to human food preference; you may be "biologically" inclined to prefer certain foods based on the specific physical needs of your particular body, and this may in many cases be impacted by genetics, but I would expect that environmental and cultural factors would be much more significant in determining what you prefer to eat on a daily basis.

To me, saying that my sexual preference is mostly determined by my genes is like telling me that my preference for artichokes is coded at the DNA level. Just seems odd and counter-intuitive. But I'm always happy to read new sources.

[Divair]

I'd say genetics mostly, but not entirely.

Interesting. Why?

I would say the opposite. I think human sexual preference is a lot more comparable to human food preference; you may be "biologically" inclined to prefer certain foods based on the specific physical needs of your particular body, and this may in many cases be impacted by genetics, but I would expect that environmental and cultural factors would be much more significant in determining what you prefer to eat on a daily basis.

To me, saying that my sexual preference is mostly determined by my genes is like telling me that my preference for artichokes is coded at the DNA level. Just seems odd and counter-intuitive. But I'm always happy to read new sources.

It's built upon my perspective. I've never felt an urge to even question my sexuality, let alone 'switch' it. To me it just seems natural to be what I am.

[Bottle]

Interesting. Why?

I would say the opposite. I think human sexual preference is a lot more comparable to human food preference; you may be "biologically" inclined to prefer certain foods based on the specific physical needs of your particular body, and this may in many cases be impacted by genetics, but I would expect that environmental and cultural factors would be much more significant in determining what you prefer to eat on a daily basis.

To me, saying that my sexual preference is mostly determined by my genes is like telling me that my preference for artichokes is coded at the DNA level. Just seems odd and counter-intuitive. But I'm always happy to read new sources.

It's built upon my perspective. I've never felt an urge to even question my sexuality, let alone 'switch' it. To me it just seems natural to be what I am.

Well sure, but why assume genetics in that case?

[Divair]

It's built upon my perspective. I've never felt an urge to even question my sexuality, let alone 'switch' it. To me it just seems natural to be what I am.

Well sure, but why assume genetics in that case?

I honestly cannot see anything else that would have caused it. I would understand if, say, my family pressured me into avoiding homosexuality like some ultra religious families do, but sexuality has never been a big deal in my family or the areas where I grew up in. I just see no other possible influence.

[Tubbsalot]

I'd say genetics mostly, but not entirely.

Interesting. Why?

I would say the opposite. I think human sexual preference is a lot more comparable to human food preference; you may be "biologically" inclined to prefer certain foods based on the specific physical needs of your particular body, and this may in many cases be impacted by genetics, but I would expect that environmental and cultural factors would be much more significant in determining what you prefer to eat on a daily basis.

To me, saying that my sexual preference is mostly determined by my genes is like telling me that my preference for artichokes is coded at the DNA level. Just seems odd and counter-intuitive. But I'm always happy to read new sources.

Well, given that the most obvious sign of a biological driver for a behaviour is that it's found in almost all members of a species, I'd say there's a decent case for it off that alone. Couple it with the fact that a "productive" sexuality is standard-issue across almost all of the animal kingdom, and it's pretty difficult to dismiss as being rooted in culture.

Conversely there aren't any species-wide taste preferences for the little things like whether celery or cabbage is better - only for the big things, which obviously do have a genetic root, like a desire for sugars and fats.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I kind of wonder what the consequences of knowing the causes would be.

[Bottle]

Well sure, but why assume genetics in that case?

I honestly cannot see anything else that would have caused it. I would understand if, say, my family pressured me into avoiding homosexuality like some ultra religious families do, but sexuality has never been a big deal in my family or the areas where I grew up in. I just see no other possible influence.

Ahhh.

Well here we go!

There are many "biological" factors which have been proven to impact neurological development and could easily have an impact on sexuality. These include but are not limited to: uterine environment, early nutrition, amount of affection received from caregivers, and even air quality. Any or all of these, along with countless other factors like the type of household pests present in your particular region, could have impacted how your brain developed.

There is also no reason to believe that direct "pressure" is necessary when it comes to psychological shaping of an individual's personality. Your experience with your family is also not the only major factor by any stretch of the imagination; for instance, I was brought up by two Uber Feminists who did everything in their power to bring me up in a gender neutral environment, yet I still internalized so much of my culture's sexism that I self-identified as male for most of my childhood largely because I was convinced that no female person could have the interests and personality type that I have.

There are a great many other possible factors that would influence the development of sexuality, and honestly it's pretty unlikely that any aspect of your personality was "caused" by only one factor.

[Divair]

I honestly cannot see anything else that would have caused it. I would understand if, say, my family pressured me into avoiding homosexuality like some ultra religious families do, but sexuality has never been a big deal in my family or the areas where I grew up in. I just see no other possible influence.

Ahhh.

Well here we go!

There are many "biological" factors which have been proven to impact neurological development and could easily have an impact on sexuality. These include but are not limited to: uterine environment, early nutrition, amount of affection received from caregivers, and even air quality. Any or all of these, along with countless other factors like the type of household pests present in your particular region, could have impacted how your brain developed.

There is also no reason to believe that direct "pressure" is necessary when it comes to psychological shaping of an individual's personality. Your experience with your family is also not the only major factor by any stretch of the imagination; for instance, I was brought up by two Uber Feminists who did everything in their power to bring me up in a gender neutral environment, yet I still internalized so much of my culture's sexism that I self-identified as male for most of my childhood largely because I was convinced that no female person could have the interests and personality type that I have.

There are a great many other possible factors that would influence the development of sexuality, and honestly it's pretty unlikely that any aspect of your personality was "caused" by only one factor.

Fair enough.

[Bottle]

Interesting. Why?

I would say the opposite. I think human sexual preference is a lot more comparable to human food preference; you may be "biologically" inclined to prefer certain foods based on the specific physical needs of your particular body, and this may in many cases be impacted by genetics, but I would expect that environmental and cultural factors would be much more significant in determining what you prefer to eat on a daily basis.

To me, saying that my sexual preference is mostly determined by my genes is like telling me that my preference for artichokes is coded at the DNA level. Just seems odd and counter-intuitive. But I'm always happy to read new sources.

Well, given that the most obvious sign of a biological driver for a behaviour is that it's found in almost all members of a species, I'd say there's a decent case for it off that alone. Couple it with the fact that a "productive" sexuality is standard-issue across almost all of the animal kingdom, and it's pretty difficult to dismiss as being rooted in culture.

Again, it's not a matter of "genes" versus "culture." Genetics and society are just two of the broad spectrum of possible factors.

And "productive" sexuality is irrelevant here, since there is no evidence that homosexuality decreases reproductive success. Please remember that reproductive success is not defined by how many babies you make, it is defined by how successful you are at getting your genes into the next generation...if you make 10 babies but only one of them survives to adulthood, you are not especially "productive."

Among humans, with our extremely helpless young, care for existing offspring is actually more significant (in terms of time-sink and energy expenditure) in getting one's genes passed on. Having heterosexual intercourse is actually one of the least significant parts of the process, over all.

[Ostroeuropa]

Having heterosexual intercourse is actually one of the least significant parts of the process, over all.

Thats why the British did away with it in favor of buggery and hot water bottles, and we're doing fine.