Are you an Atheist or Theist.

[Menassa]

You never said anything about religious beliefs spurring charitable acts... you just said charity may not work

Also I have... but then again... you'd claim it allegory.

So you have no evidence of this fact of yours.

I'm not making factual claims, it was you who said that no act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by religion.

[Ostroeuropa]

You mean am I going to pick up what you say, analzye it for incoherency or inconsistency, then point this out to you?
Yeh.
That's pretty much how Atheism is done.

People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus.

For once we agree. That is the entire point of science and rational thought.
And both of those things have found no evidence for god.

[Ostroeuropa]

So you have no evidence of this fact of yours.

I'm not making factual claims, it was you who said that no act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by religion.

That isn't a positive claim. I can't search the entirety of existence and post it all here and say "Not one of these examples disproves me."
So i'll merely imply I did that.
I source everything.
Now it's your job to find an inconsistency in my source.
You need to find a charity act inspired wholly by religion among my source, every charitable act.

[Defensor]

People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus.

For once we agree. That is the entire point of science and rational thought.
And both of those things have found no evidence for god.

And the circle continues...

[Menassa]

People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus.

For once we agree. That is the entire point of science and rational thought.
And both of those things have found no evidence for god.

Again... my point is not to argue evidence for a God... my point is to call out how wrong it is to be Anti-Theism.... just like it's wrong to be Anti -Gays... or Anti-African Americans or Antisemitic.

[Aleckandor]

Was firmly against it, actually.

Mao killed for communism, not for atheism.

Right. But he still targeted the religious, among many other groups like intellectuals and foreigners.

[Satafia]

Allow me to be both as I don't believe in a deity, do appreciate the concept of a higher force (whatever that my be) and with minimal efforts adhere Buddhist principles; to which I feel a bit affiliated/deeply respect.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I'm going to repeat myself here.

Without religion, men and women would enjoy complete equality, gay marriage would be legal, there would be abortion rights, and we wouldn't have religious nuts continuously blocking any and all scientific research because it's "immoral".

Also, we would all have private space shuttles, and vacation homes on terraformed Mars.

That's a pretty big (and quite bigoted) assumption you're making there.

TL:DR Without religion, people wouldn't act like people.

We have plenty of examples of religious people not acting like people, unless The Crusaders and the Islamic extremists aren't religious now.

...Did you read the rest of that post of mine?

[North Stradia]

For once we agree. That is the entire point of science and rational thought.
And both of those things have found no evidence for god.

Again... my point is not to argue evidence for a God... my point is to call out how wrong it is to be Anti-Theism.... just like it's wrong to be Anti -Gays... or Anti-African Americans or Antisemitic.

Anti-gays, anti-blacks, and anti-semites are against groups of people out of irrational hatred.
Anti-theism is opposition to an irrational belief.

[Ostroeuropa]

For once we agree. That is the entire point of science and rational thought.
And both of those things have found no evidence for god.

Again... my point is not to argue evidence for a God... my point is to call out how wrong it is to be Anti-Theism.... just like it's wrong to be Anti -Gays... or Anti-African Americans or Antisemitic.

An ideology is not the same as those other categories.
One can be an anti-capitalist without hating capitalists, though admittedly that example may be rare.
One can be anti-comminism without hating communists.
Or anti-racism. etc.

[Menassa]

I'm not making factual claims, it was you who said that no act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by religion.

That isn't a positive claim. I can't search the entirety of existence and post it all here and say "Not one of these examples disproves me."
So i'll merely imply I did that.
I source everything.
Now it's your job to find an inconsistency in my source.
You need to find a charity act inspired wholly by religion among my source, every charitable act.

You are your own inconsistency if you claim: "No act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by Religion." The burden of proof doesn't lie with me.

[Menassa]

Again... my point is not to argue evidence for a God... my point is to call out how wrong it is to be Anti-Theism.... just like it's wrong to be Anti -Gays... or Anti-African Americans or Antisemitic.

An ideology is not the same as those other categories.
One can be an anti-capitalist without hating capitalists, though admittedly that example may be rare.
One can be anti-comminism without hating communists.
Or anti-racism. etc.

Not really, Theism is in many cases a lifestyle choice.

[Ostroeuropa]

That isn't a positive claim. I can't search the entirety of existence and post it all here and say "Not one of these examples disproves me."
So i'll merely imply I did that.
I source everything.
Now it's your job to find an inconsistency in my source.
You need to find a charity act inspired wholly by religion among my source, every charitable act.

You are your own inconsistency if you claim: "No act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by Religion." The burden of proof doesn't lie with me.

It is not a positive claim. I have already said precisely why I cannot post a link to every charity act (For one, it would be incredibly hard work, probably impossible, and two, I suspect it would be spam)
On the other hand, it should be incredibly easy to find one if they do exist.

[Ostroeuropa]

An ideology is not the same as those other categories.
One can be an anti-capitalist without hating capitalists, though admittedly that example may be rare.
One can be anti-comminism without hating communists.
Or anti-racism. etc.

Not really, Theism is in many cases a lifestyle choice.

In what sense would that differ from Racism?

[Aleckandor]

That isn't a positive claim. I can't search the entirety of existence and post it all here and say "Not one of these examples disproves me."
So i'll merely imply I did that.
I source everything.
Now it's your job to find an inconsistency in my source.
You need to find a charity act inspired wholly by religion among my source, every charitable act.

You are your own inconsistency if you claim: "No act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by Religion." The burden of proof doesn't lie with me.

Isn't he just trying to say that he is against religion and/or the proliferation of religion, but not against the adherents themselves?

[Reggae Magmia]

...Did you read the rest of that post of mine?

Apologies. I just noticed what you meant.

[Ostroeuropa]

You are your own inconsistency if you claim: "No act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by Religion." The burden of proof doesn't lie with me.

Isn't he just trying to say that he is against religion and/or the proliferation of religion, but not against the adherents themselves?

That's what he doesn't seem to get.

[Menassa]

You are your own inconsistency if you claim: "No act of charity has ever wholly been inspired by Religion." The burden of proof doesn't lie with me.

It is not a positive claim. I have already said precisely why I cannot post a link to every charity act (For one, it would be incredibly hard work, probably impossible, and two, I suspect it would be spam)
On the other hand, it should be incredibly easy to find one if they do exist.

Because it is easier for me to do work for you, you shouldn't have to do it?
That's not going to fly with me... again my inbox is always open... but now (in this argument) we're really debating nothing.

[Nevthronia]

You need to find a charity act inspired wholly by religion among my source, every charitable act.

That's probably not too difficult. It'd be tougher than it sounds on the surface, since in reality I would guess that nearly all acts of charity are more due to an individual's generosity/personality as a whole, but there are almost definitely some Muslims who have donated to the poor for no reason other than the fact that zakāt is one of the Five Pillars of Islam (just as an example).

EDIT: I kinda sound like a religious person here, so just to re-affirm: I'm just an atheist-leaning deist who's trying to stay open to both sides of the coin.

[Menassa]

Not really, Theism is in many cases a lifestyle choice.

In what sense would that differ from Racism?

So.... you're saying someone who is an anti-theist... is a Racist?

[Ostroeuropa]

It is not a positive claim. I have already said precisely why I cannot post a link to every charity act (For one, it would be incredibly hard work, probably impossible, and two, I suspect it would be spam)
On the other hand, it should be incredibly easy to find one if they do exist.

Because it is easier for me to do work for you, you shouldn't have to do it?
That's not going to fly with me... again my inbox is always open... but now (in this argument) we're really debating nothing.

No, because I haven't made a positive claim.

[Ostroeuropa]

In what sense would that differ from Racism?

So.... you're saying someone who is an anti-theist... is a Racist?

No.
You've misunderstood. On purpose I expect.
Try re-reading your post which I was replying to, then mine.

[Menassa]

Because it is easier for me to do work for you, you shouldn't have to do it?
That's not going to fly with me... again my inbox is always open... but now (in this argument) we're really debating nothing.

No, because I haven't made a positive claim.

I think you have... but still I feel we should stop this pointless discussion because now we're just arguing about burden of proof.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, because I haven't made a positive claim.

I think you have... but still I feel we should stop this pointless discussion because now we're just arguing about burden of proof.

No charitable act is inspired wholly by religion. <-Negative, denial, etc.
Charitable acts can be inspired wholly by religion. <-Positive, affirmation, etc.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

No, because I haven't made a positive claim.

I think you have... but still I feel we should stop this pointless discussion because now we're just arguing about burden of proof.

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