The Jewish Question

[Ralkovia]

As I always said, "The Shoah must go on!"

Anyway, the "Jewish State" should be moved to Germany. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGeR4r5hbk

No. Effectively please fuck off.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

As most of the information regarding Operation Paperclip is still classified, there's no way of really saying if the purpose of it was for that stated in Wikipedia. According to this, the main interest was for weapons.



Although medicine was included, it doesn't seem to have been it's main purpose.

Now I'm not denying that the US extricated these scientists and brought them to US soil.

I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on this

During the Nuremberg trials, several of the Nazi doctors and scientists who were being tried for their human experiments claimed that the inspiration for their studies had come from studies that they had seen performed in the United States.[10][47]

, because Mr. I'M TOO LAZY TO READ EVERYTHING ABOUT MEDICAL EXPERIMENTATION wanted a source.

Touchy, touchy.
That still doesn't mean the US said "Hey, go kill all the Jews!"
Because they didn't, and that means no practical US responsibility. And that's what you're apparently accusing my country of. Which is dangerously, blatantly false. Maybe the US took in some people they shouldn't have. Maybe the US inspired some experimentation ideas that the Nazis carried out.
But the sources you trot out - an extraordinarily vague wiki article and an openly biased document from a website that is primarily of a religious nature and written by a noted right-wing crank do not a compelling argument make.
Try to make a better argument instead of slinging puerile names around, mmkay?

Ok, let's go through this.
1) Your source is overtly religious and thus potentially biased.
2) Same with Wikipedia. Note "examples needed".
3) That article was written by a man named Charles Colson. That should ring a bell with some people - he was one of Nixon's hatchet men, who loved trying to figure out ways to fuck over people who went on talk shows and insulted Nixon (he loved the idea of firebombing houses of "enemies list people" from what I recall). He wrote that column about 5 months before he died at a very old age.
What does this lead to? He's not very reliable.
4) Again, excusing those criminals was wrong. That does not equal guilt in the Holocaust, that is guilt for not punishing guilty men. You don't understand what you're saying.
America was not "guilty of the Holocaust" (IE the murder of millions of people) because they let some people off who shouldn't have been.
the Nazis pulled the fucking triggers, let the gas flow, and built the camps. It's all on them. No one made them do that.

Nope, you're wrong. You're pulling the "Wikipedia isn't true dude, Adolf Hitler didn't die on April 30th dude. Wikipedia says he did, but Wikipedia lies so he still alive man" wildcard. Too bad for you that it actually just made you look stupid and just made you lose all credibility in this arguement. You do not know anything about this subject, LEAVE.

Oh god you're hilarious.
OK, let's count all the bullshit that you're pulling out of your ass here:
1) Slippery-slope fallacy. Did I ever say Hitler was still alive? No? Then why bring it up?
2) You didn't address what I said. At all. Because you know you're wrong, maybe? I'd say so.
3) Oh god, you think you have thread ownership here? You can fucking order me around till doomsday, buddy, and you'll just want to make me stay here more. Grow up.
4) It seems the rest of us don't agree with you about me losing credibility. But go on with your temper tantrum, that'll make up for your lack of a leg to stand on.

[Schwabenreich]

The only real jewish state should be Israel, if only because the ethnicity has cermented itself there and moving them or something would be disastrous. However I don't think any ethnicity needs a state (need being used here similarly to 'entitled to'), unless they compose a significant automonous territory and may as well have independence (the basque people for example). The jews as a people should have ideally been able to find a home where ever they went, which was obviously (and sadly) not the case.

[Ralkovia]

I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on this , because Mr. I'M TOO LAZY TO READ EVERYTHING ABOUT MEDICAL EXPERIMENTATION wanted a source.

Touchy, touchy.
That still doesn't mean the US said "Hey, go kill all the Jews!"
Because they didn't, and that means no practical US responsibility. And that's what you're apparently accusing my country of. Which is dangerously, blatantly false. Maybe the US took in some people they shouldn't have. Maybe the US inspired some experimentation ideas that the Nazis carried out.
But the sources you trot out - an extraordinarily vague wiki article and an openly biased document from a website that is primarily of a religious nature and written by a noted right-wing crank do not a compelling argument make.
Try to make a better argument instead of slinging puerile names around, mmkay?

Nope, you're wrong. You're pulling the "Wikipedia isn't true dude, Adolf Hitler didn't die on April 30th dude. Wikipedia says he did, but Wikipedia lies so he still alive man" wildcard. Too bad for you that it actually just made you look stupid and just made you lose all credibility in this arguement. You do not know anything about this subject, LEAVE.

Oh god you're hilarious.
OK, let's count all the bullshit that you're pulling out of your ass here:
1) Slippery-slope fallacy. Did I ever say Hitler was still alive? No? Then why bring it up?
2) You didn't address what I said. At all. Because you know you're wrong, maybe? I'd say so.
3) Oh god, you think you have thread ownership here? You can fucking order me around till doomsday, buddy, and you'll just want to make me stay here more. Grow up.
4) It seems the rest of us don't agree with you about me losing credibility. But go on with your temper tantrum, that'll make up for your lack of a leg to stand on.

This is true. America not charging war criminals as war criminals in the future had no effect on the war criminals committing the war crimes.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Touchy, touchy.
That still doesn't mean the US said "Hey, go kill all the Jews!"
Because they didn't, and that means no practical US responsibility. And that's what you're apparently accusing my country of. Which is dangerously, blatantly false. Maybe the US took in some people they shouldn't have. Maybe the US inspired some experimentation ideas that the Nazis carried out.
But the sources you trot out - an extraordinarily vague wiki article and an openly biased document from a website that is primarily of a religious nature and written by a noted right-wing crank do not a compelling argument make.
Try to make a better argument instead of slinging puerile names around, mmkay?


Oh god you're hilarious.
OK, let's count all the bullshit that you're pulling out of your ass here:
1) Slippery-slope fallacy. Did I ever say Hitler was still alive? No? Then why bring it up?
2) You didn't address what I said. At all. Because you know you're wrong, maybe? I'd say so.
3) Oh god, you think you have thread ownership here? You can fucking order me around till doomsday, buddy, and you'll just want to make me stay here more. Grow up.
4) It seems the rest of us don't agree with you about me losing credibility. But go on with your temper tantrum, that'll make up for your lack of a leg to stand on.

This is true. America not charging war criminals as war criminals in the future had no effect on the war criminals committing the war crimes.

Besides, don't you think allocating guilt/blame is a tad passe? WWII has been over for so many decades...

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Nope, you're wrong. You're pulling the "Wikipedia isn't true dude, Adolf Hitler didn't die on April 30th dude. Wikipedia says he did, but Wikipedia lies so he still alive man" wildcard. Too bad for you that it actually just made you look stupid and just made you lose all credibility in this arguement. You do not know anything about this subject, LEAVE.

Please bullshit. America can't be blamed for everything. It's policy was like that of the rest of the World. Seeded in ignorance. Germany and its collaborators carry nearly all the blame. Can the rest of the World be blamed for not accepting a mass of poor immigrants coming from a despised minority? sure. But they had no idea. I don't think America would have turned the Jews away had they known what this would lead to.

I lost my entire extended family. My great grandfather and his family were the last survivors of the extermination camp Maly Trostenets. My grandfather had to dig up the corpses of his friends so the Nazis could burn the evidence away.

Ralk is basically making the same point as me.
You can blame the US (or the Allies, whatever) for not accepting the Jews in the 30s and early 40s. You can blame them for Versailles backfiring (maybe not for the rise of the Nazis specifically, but it was a bad plan). you can blame the US for accepting war criminals when they should have been tried.
You CANNOT blame the US "for the Holocaust", because the US did not kill millions of Jews and other minorities in extermination camps. That is what "blame" means in the sphere of the Holocaust. This is what I am trying to get at.
And I trust who was to blame there is quite clear.

[Ralkovia]

This is true. America not charging war criminals as war criminals in the future had no effect on the war criminals committing the war crimes.

Besides, don't you think allocating guilt/blame is a tad passe? WWII has been over for so many decades...

The Chinese/Japanese/Koreans can do it. Why can't we?

[Benburger]

Its pretty obvious its hitler not the Nazis who should be blammed its only fair!

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Its pretty obvious its hitler not the Nazis who should be blammed its only fair!

...
...The Holocaust was not a one man operation.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Besides, don't you think allocating guilt/blame is a tad passe? WWII has been over for so many decades...

The Chinese/Japanese/Koreans can do it. Why can't we?

Allocate blame or move on?

[Ralkovia]

Its pretty obvious its hitler not the Nazis who should be blammed its only fair!

...
...The Holocaust was not a one man operation.

That's why they built mecha hitler. He destroyed minorities with his yelling.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

The Chinese/Japanese/Koreans can do it. Why can't we?

Allocate blame or move on?

There has to be both. We can't dwell on it constantly, but we can't put it comfortably out of mind, either.

[Ralkovia]

The Chinese/Japanese/Koreans can do it. Why can't we?

Allocate blame or move on?

Continue blaming. I'm in it for the long run.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

...
...The Holocaust was not a one man operation.

That's why they built mecha hitler. He destroyed minorities with his yelling.

DAAAAAAAAAMN YOUUUUUUUUUU MECHA-HITLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR!!!

[Ralkovia]

Allocate blame or move on?

There has to be both. We can't dwell on it constantly, but we can't put it comfortably out of mind, either.

Considering the role the Holocaust has played on the consciousness of the Jews, it is something that will never be gone. It weighs heavy on our hearts. I will tell my sons and daughters the story of what my grandfather had to endure. We must never forget. But there is a time to forgive. It is time to forgive Germany, but never the Nazis.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Allocate blame or move on?

There has to be both. We can't dwell on it constantly, but we can't put it comfortably out of mind, either.

Well, yes. But that's not what I meant. We can't forget that injustices against not just the Jews but also the Roma, among a few other groups. What happened was terrible and if we forget it, we may be doom to repeat it. I just don't see why is it necessary to state ''The Germans are to blame entirely, or the Americans'' or the any other kinds of 'culprits'. Not now, at least.

All we can do, now, is strive not to repeat it.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

There has to be both. We can't dwell on it constantly, but we can't put it comfortably out of mind, either.

Considering the role the Holocaust has played on the consciousness of the Jews, it is something that will never be gone. It ways heavy on our hearts. I will tell my sons and daughters the story of what my grandfather had to endure. We must never forget. But there is a time to forgive. It is time to forgive Germany, but never the Nazis.

Well put.

[Ralkovia]

Considering the role the Holocaust has played on the consciousness of the Jews, it is something that will never be gone. It ways heavy on our hearts. I will tell my sons and daughters the story of what my grandfather had to endure. We must never forget. But there is a time to forgive. It is time to forgive Germany, but never the Nazis.

Well put.

Thank you.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Allocate blame or move on?

Continue blaming. I'm in it for the long run.

I understand that this is now a sad chapter, among too many if I may add, in the history of the Jewish people. You shouldn't forget it, and your children shouldn't either. It is part of your consciousness as a people. I'm just saying that we forgive and move on. Or at least, we should.

Were the Nazi to blame? Absolutely. Should we continue to blame Germany, now? Perhaps not. Then? Yes.

[Ralkovia]

Continue blaming. I'm in it for the long run.

I understand that this is now a sad chapter, among too many if I may add, in the history of the Jewish people. You shouldn't forget it, and your children shouldn't either. It is part of your consciousness as a people. I'm just saying that we forgive and move on. Or at least, we should.

Were the Nazi to blame? Absolutely. Should we continue to blame Germany, now? Perhaps not. Then? Yes.

That's what I said. Pretty much.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I understand that this is now a sad chapter, among too many if I may add, in the history of the Jewish people. You shouldn't forget it, and your children shouldn't either. It is part of your consciousness as a people. I'm just saying that we forgive and move on. Or at least, we should.

Were the Nazi to blame? Absolutely. Should we continue to blame Germany, now? Perhaps not. Then? Yes.

That's what I said. Pretty much.

It's the Jew MindMeld. It's working.

[Ralkovia]

That's what I said. Pretty much.

It's the Jew MindMeld. It's working.

Get out of my head. You shall never know where my gold is.

Nana are you Jewish?

[The Tiger Kingdom]

That's what I said. Pretty much.

It's the Jew MindMeld. It's working.

Wait, I'm agreeing with you guys too, and I'm a stone-cold mostly Anglo-Saxon (part Ukrainian and Polish) atheist.
Weird...

[Souseiseki]

It's the Jew MindMeld. It's working.

Get out of my head. You shall never know where my gold is.

switzerland

edit: shit didn't notice nanatsu no tsuki was responsible for this. the first rule of TET is actually no leaving TET.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's the Jew MindMeld. It's working.

Get out of my head. You shall never know where my gold is.

Under your yamaka (sp?), of course.

Now, honestly, I have nothing else to add.