Ban on "assault weapons" and/or high capacity magazines?

[Reichsland]

Just because the weapon looks like an assault rifle does not make it an assault rifle. I have a remote controle that resembles a phone, that doesnt make it a phone however. I have a reason why I have an ar-15, its not cause I want to feel like johnny rambo. Its because my ar-15 is more efficient for the coyote and varmint hunting that I do instead of my .270. I can put accessories on my ar that I cant put on my .270. Also, the assault ban makes bayonet holders illegal. Why is that? could I not simply duct tape a knife to the end of my rifle? This "assault weapons ban" seems like a waste to me.

[Occupied Deutschland]

>ignoring the part of the video I actually linked to, which was Detective Jimmy Trahin testifying before the California State Assembly on the fact that of the fifty thousand or so firearms confiscated by 'gangbangers' by his department, over a twelve year period, not one single weapon had been converted to fully automatic.

I love how you go "firearms fetishist puppet masquerading as a competent law enforcement officer named Leory Pyle"
All he says is that the AWB is based upon both cosmetic features and misinformation.

To be fair, I think he did say one Ruger Mini-14 had been converted.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

>ignoring the part of the video I actually linked to, which was Detective Jimmy Trahin testifying before the California State Assembly on the fact that of the fifty thousand or so firearms confiscated by 'gangbangers' by his department, over a twelve year period, not one single weapon had been converted to fully automatic.

I love how you go "firearms fetishist puppet masquerading as a competent law enforcement officer named Leory Pyle"
All he says is that the AWB is based upon both cosmetic features and misinformation.

To be fair, I think he did say one Ruger Mini-14 had been converted.

"Not one AK-47, never converted; one Ruger Mini-14, never converted; one HK 91[sic], never converted."
Even if he had meant they were converted, two converted rifles out of tens of thousands seized? Pretty good rate if you ask me.

[Occupied Deutschland]

To be fair, I think he did say one Ruger Mini-14 had been converted.

"Not one AK-47, never converted; one Ruger Mini-14, never converted; one HK 91[sic], never converted."
Even if he had meant they were converted, two converted rifles out of tens of thousands seized? Pretty good rate if you ask me.

Ahh, I missed that.

[Northern Dominus]

Right, we're supposed to believe an firearms fetishist puppet masquerading as a competent law enforcement officer named Leory Pyle.

And I've said before I'm not a fan of the term "assault weapon" either. It's too focused, too loaded to one side of the debate. A more correct term would be "combat oriented" firearms, meaning a weapon that has certain engineering and layout landmarks that denote a primary purpose of enganging and killing human beings in an assumed hostile situation. This encompasses semi-automatic firearms that are basically civilian-spec versions of assault rifles and submachine guns and = has nothing to do with the type of action (semiautomatic or fully automatic), nor the capacity of the magazine itself.

Plus, again, and again, as I've said I'm not in favor of an outright ban on combat-oriented firearms either. Tighter control yes, more oversight and tracking yes, more comprehensive testing and evaluation of firearms license holders yes, but an outright ban no.

>ignoring the part of the video I actually linked to, which was Detective Jimmy Trahin testifying before the California State Assembly on the fact that of the fifty thousand or so firearms confiscated by 'gangbangers' by his department, over a twelve year period, not one single weapon had been converted to fully automatic.

I love how you go "firearms fetishist puppet masquerading as a competent law enforcement officer named Leory Pyle"
All he says is that the AWB is based upon both cosmetic features and misinformation.

Right, and if you rewind the entire video, he makes a valid point once in awhile but you never see who exactly produced or funded the video in the first place. It's easy to make one's case when they talk in simplistic terms that would fool your average person unfamiliar with firearms beyond what holywood has told them. For people who have had a degree of training regarding combat tactics and firerarms mantinence, those simplistic terms are a ruse, hiding the fact that fully automatic fire isn't the end-all be-all of a weapon designed specifically for targeting and killing humans with efficiency.

And I love how you ignored my alternate definition and critera, or the fact that I'm not in favor of an outright ban, so thanks for that.

Gangbangers don't have to make their own modifications to certain firearms to convert them to fully-automatic capable. Odds are their local black market firearms merchant does that sort of thing already, as youve explained. And I've explained time and again how these black market dealers get a lot of their weapons through straw purchasing semi-legally so I won't go there again.

And when will it be your place to say if a person shouldn't have access to a fully automatic firearm of some kind? When your block gets shot up in a drive by? If somebody you know and love gets killed in that drive by? Or if they get killed because some lunatic has an illegally modified fully automatic firearm and dumps magazine of magazine into the space they occupied, and all because some unscrupulous asshole at a gun show didn't feel like filling out the proper paperwork or doing a bit of tertiary probing as to why somebody wanted a military-pattern weapon in the first place? What will it take exactly?

What will it take? NOTHING.
I have lost family and friends to gun fire, and self infliction. Laws such as the one you are railing about will not change anything, the human will, will always trump any law, edict, regulation, etc. We have laws on the books, they get caught, then they do the time, making something more illegal-er does no good, since it was already illegal. I am not going to waste my time on a law or some politician's definition of what is or is not illegal.

So your reaction to the US being the biggest black market of firearms in the entire world is to just go "oh well"? So all those people getting shot up in Mexico with combat-oriented firearms brought over the border from the US via the gun show loophole somehow don't count? Or the thousands here at home that die courtesy of the same loophole?

[Grinning Dragon]

>ignoring the part of the video I actually linked to, which was Detective Jimmy Trahin testifying before the California State Assembly on the fact that of the fifty thousand or so firearms confiscated by 'gangbangers' by his department, over a twelve year period, not one single weapon had been converted to fully automatic.

I love how you go "firearms fetishist puppet masquerading as a competent law enforcement officer named Leory Pyle"
All he says is that the AWB is based upon both cosmetic features and misinformation.

Right, and if you rewind the entire video, he makes a valid point once in awhile but you never see who exactly produced or funded the video in the first place. It's easy to make one's case when they talk in simplistic terms that would fool your average person unfamiliar with firearms beyond what holywood has told them. For people who have had a degree of training regarding combat tactics and firerarms mantinence, those simplistic terms are a ruse, hiding the fact that fully automatic fire isn't the end-all be-all of a weapon designed specifically for targeting and killing humans with efficiency.

And I love how you ignored my alternate definition and critera, or the fact that I'm not in favor of an outright ban, so thanks for that.

What will it take? NOTHING.
I have lost family and friends to gun fire, and self infliction. Laws such as the one you are railing about will not change anything, the human will, will always trump any law, edict, regulation, etc. We have laws on the books, they get caught, then they do the time, making something more illegal-er does no good, since it was already illegal. I am not going to waste my time on a law or some politician's definition of what is or is not illegal.

So your reaction to the US being the biggest black market of firearms in the entire world is to just go "oh well"? So all those people getting shot up in Mexico with combat-oriented firearms brought over the border from the US via the gun show loophole somehow don't count? Or the thousands here at home that die courtesy of the same loophole?

There is NO gun show loophole, as of right now, it is perfectly legal for an individual who is not an FFL to pay the show promoters a fee to set up a booth to sell privately to another person, there are however some show promoters that require private sellers to do a background check when selling firearms at their venue. All FFL's at the show must do a background check.

Blaming honest law abiding citizens for the actions of the federal govt in their gun walking scheme is dishonest and misleading.
So, since companies in the United States produce a legal product and because of the actions of thieves who steal these weapons to sell, the United States is the largest black market of weapons? Isn't this like blaming the victim?

Another thing to look at is, why is there a black market? Would laws and regulations have something to do with this?

Why do I need to concern myself what happens in another country, when a legal product from the United States is used in a nefarious way, by the very nature that someone broke not only the laws of the United States, but that of another country? It is not mine, nor the fault of the citizens of the United States for the actions taken by a person or persons will to break the law.

[Alien Space Bats]

I used to think that, but then we accidentally Vietghaniraq.

Now, I just don't even know anymore. We can't seem to occupy anything successfully lately.

Yeah, I remember how American and NATO troops were driven out of Iraq and Afghanistan after having tens of thousands of soldiers killed and suffered horrible losses in battle after battle, so that after a few years Saddam was back in power in Iraq and Al-Qaeda had camps in Afghnaistan again.

Oh, wait...

<pause>

Well, I suppose there's always Vietnam, where the Vietnamese had no regular army forces whatsoever, no tanks, no aircraft, no artillery, no mortars, nothing more than just AK's and improvised explosive devices and never fought pitched battles against French or American forces or their allies.

Oh, wait...

L2MilitaryHistory.

[Mavorpen]

the problem is if this passes it's federal

Trust me, I don't plan on living in California as bueitifal as it is here the laws are ridiculous and are not based in logic.

Again, move. No one's forcing you to stay in the U.S.

[Reichsland]

Right, and if you rewind the entire video, he makes a valid point once in awhile but you never see who exactly produced or funded the video in the first place. It's easy to make one's case when they talk in simplistic terms that would fool your average person unfamiliar with firearms beyond what holywood has told them. For people who have had a degree of training regarding combat tactics and firerarms mantinence, those simplistic terms are a ruse, hiding the fact that fully automatic fire isn't the end-all be-all of a weapon designed specifically for targeting and killing humans with efficiency.

And I love how you ignored my alternate definition and critera, or the fact that I'm not in favor of an outright ban, so thanks for that.

So your reaction to the US being the biggest black market of firearms in the entire world is to just go "oh well"? So all those people getting shot up in Mexico with combat-oriented firearms brought over the border from the US via the gun show loophole somehow don't count? Or the thousands here at home that die courtesy of the same loophole?

There is NO gun show loophole, as of right now, it is perfectly legal for an individual who is not an FFL to pay the show promoters a fee to set up a booth to sell privately to another person, there are however some show promoters that require private sellers to do a background check when selling firearms at their venue. All FFL's at the show must do a background check.

Blaming honest law abiding citizens for the actions of the federal govt in their gun walking scheme is dishonest and misleading.
So, since companies in the United States produce a legal product and because of the actions of thieves who steal these weapons to sell, the United States is the largest black market of weapons? Isn't this like blaming the victim?

Another thing to look at is, why is there a black market? Would laws and regulations have something to do with this?

Why do I need to concern myself what happens in another country, when a legal product from the United States is used in a nefarious way, by the very nature that someone broke not only the laws of the United States, but that of another country? It is not mine, nor the fault of the citizens of the United States for the actions taken by a person or persons will to break the law.

This I can agree with. If the drug cartels want to shoot each other, then more power to them. I cant stop it, especially if I dont have guns.

[Reichsland]

Right, and if you rewind the entire video, he makes a valid point once in awhile but you never see who exactly produced or funded the video in the first place. It's easy to make one's case when they talk in simplistic terms that would fool your average person unfamiliar with firearms beyond what holywood has told them. For people who have had a degree of training regarding combat tactics and firerarms mantinence, those simplistic terms are a ruse, hiding the fact that fully automatic fire isn't the end-all be-all of a weapon designed specifically for targeting and killing humans with efficiency.

And I love how you ignored my alternate definition and critera, or the fact that I'm not in favor of an outright ban, so thanks for that.

So your reaction to the US being the biggest black market of firearms in the entire world is to just go "oh well"? So all those people getting shot up in Mexico with combat-oriented firearms brought over the border from the US via the gun show loophole somehow don't count? Or the thousands here at home that die courtesy of the same loophole?

There is NO gun show loophole, as of right now, it is perfectly legal for an individual who is not an FFL to pay the show promoters a fee to set up a booth to sell privately to another person, there are however some show promoters that require private sellers to do a background check when selling firearms at their venue. All FFL's at the show must do a background check.

Blaming honest law abiding citizens for the actions of the federal govt in their gun walking scheme is dishonest and misleading.
So, since companies in the United States produce a legal product and because of the actions of thieves who steal these weapons to sell, the United States is the largest black market of weapons? Isn't this like blaming the victim?

Another thing to look at is, why is there a black market? Would laws and regulations have something to do with this?

Why do I need to concern myself what happens in another country, when a legal product from the United States is used in a nefarious way, by the very nature that someone broke not only the laws of the United States, but that of another country? It is not mine, nor the fault of the citizens of the United States for the actions taken by a person or persons will to break the law.

This I can agree with. If the drug cartels want to shoot each other, then more power to them. I cant stop it, especially if I dont have guns.

[North Calaveras]

the problem is if this passes it's federal

Trust me, I don't plan on living in California as bueitifal as it is here the laws are ridiculous and are not based in logic.

Again, move. No one's forcing you to stay in the U.S.

I thought that was the conservative rights stance?

[Mavorpen]

Again, move. No one's forcing you to stay in the U.S.

I thought that was the conservative rights stance?

No.

[North Calaveras]

I thought that was the conservative rights stance?

No.

I love it " Just move"

why don't you, afterall guns were here before these bullshit bills and laws.

[Mavorpen]

No.

I love it " Just move"

why don't you, afterall guns were here before these bullshit bills and laws.

What?

[North Calaveras]

I love it " Just move"

why don't you, afterall guns were here before these bullshit bills and laws.

What?

You told me to move, i respond with why don't you since guns are already here.

[Yes Im Biop]

No.

I love it " Just move"

why don't you, afterall guns were here before these bullshit bills and laws.

Because I like it here even with the dumb ass's in power. If someone has such a problem with our counter ether don't come or leave. Simple

[Mavorpen]

What?

You told me to move, i respond with why don't you since guns are already here.

Again, what? Why would I move because of something that doesn't bother me? You might as well be saying, "why don't you move since fires exists here!?"

[North Calaveras]

You told me to move, i respond with why don't you since guns are already here.

Again, what? Why would I move because of something that doesn't bother me? You might as well be saying, "why don't you move since fires exists here!?"

so guns don't bother you?

[Mavorpen]

Again, what? Why would I move because of something that doesn't bother me? You might as well be saying, "why don't you move since fires exists here!?"

so guns don't bother you?

No.

[North Calaveras]

so guns don't bother you?

No.

....im done talking to you

[Mavorpen]

No.

....im done talking to you

What's wrong? Upset that you now can't create straw men making me out to be a, "GUN HATING DERTY HIPPY LIBERUL"?

[North Calaveras]

....im done talking to you

What's wrong? Upset that you now can't create straw men making me out to be a, "GUN HATING DERTY HIPPY LIBERUL"?

Well I think you hate guns, as far as being dirty, a hippy or liberal, I'm not sure you might be a commnist or a socialist they tend to not like firearms when other with differing opinions have them.

[Mavorpen]

Well I think you hate guns, as far as being dirty, a hippy or liberal, I'm not sure you might be a commnist or a socialist they tend to not like firearms when other with differing opinions have them.

None of this is factually correct nor ground in reality whatsoever.

[North Calaveras]

Well I think you hate guns, as far as being dirty, a hippy or liberal, I'm not sure you might be a commnist or a socialist they tend to not like firearms when other with differing opinions have them.

None of this is factually correct nor ground in reality whatsoever.

I never said they are factually correct, if you read the post you can clearly see where i said might, it's a word people use when they are not 100% sure.

[Mavorpen]

None of this is factually correct nor ground in reality whatsoever.

I never said they are factually correct, if you read the post you can clearly see where i said might, it's a word people use when they are not 100% sure.

No, the parts that are factually incorrect are:

1. I hate guns.
2. Socialists and communists tend to not like firearms when others with differing opinions have them.