Ban on "assault weapons" and/or high capacity magazines?

[Gauthier]

Your comment would make more sense if he said anything about the second amendment.

Then why is he bitching about deer and 30 rounds mags...

Other than Gun Worshippers claiming that AR-15s are "hunting rifles"?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

agreed...........if your putting 30 rounds in a pistol that would be considered high capacity as that is not standard

an AR-15 was made with 30 rounds as standard however so it's not high capacity to have 30 rounds in that type of weapon.

How do you agree with him and then make a statement that turns it on its head?

He doesn't, this has been his standpoint all thread.
A 33rd mag for a Glock is high-capacity, because standard is 17rds (for a Glock 17).
30rds for an AR-15, AK, associated variants and derivatives, FAMAS, AUG, F2000, etc is not high capacity, because that's standard.
It's not standard for those weapons, it's standard for that entire class of weapon. It's part of why we in the west have STANAG 4179
While never actually ratified, it's been accepted as a NATO standard since its inception.

[Grinning Dragon]

And govt is the best arbitrator of what is or is not needed? Govt is made up of people who are also fallible and prone to affect others in a not very good outcome as well.

Government is, in general, a decent approximation of the will of the majority. So yes, it is the best arbiter, barring total democracy (utterly impractical) or full consensus governance (even more so).

History also shows us that rules have been broken.

But very rarely by enough people to make much of a difference.

The will of the majority would be relevant if the United States was a democracy.

No, the rarity is of those who have been caught.

[Spreewerke]

Which is?

They have to be sent to a licensed firearms dealer, who then checks the credentials of the person doing the purchasing.

"High-cap" magazines do not need to go through an FFL. Only a receiver does since that is what is considered the firearm by the BATFE.

[Alidina]

Its a state issue not a federal issue and in my state which has large amounts of wood lands and low police response times no I wouldnt want any infringment on my right to my guns and I would not give up my guns if the government, which has never cared about my opinion before, comes to take them.

[North Calaveras]

Its a state issue not a federal issue and in my state which has large amounts of wood lands and low police response times no I wouldnt want any infringment on my right to my guns and I would not give up my guns if the government, which has never cared about my opinion before, comes to take them.

amen to that, nobodys going to tell me what i do and don't need to defend myself or my family, law or no law.

[Salandriagado]

They have to be sent to a licensed firearms dealer, who then checks the credentials of the person doing the purchasing.

"High-cap" magazines do not need to go through an FFL. Only a receiver does since that is what is considered the firearm by the BATFE.

Considering that we are discussing a hypothetical where they have been restricted, that would have changed.

[Northern Dominus]

Then why is he bitching about deer and 30 rounds mags...

Other than Gun Worshippers claiming that AR-15s are "hunting rifles"?

Or "plinking targets", another favorite excuse of the firearms fetishists of the nation.

The only semi-valid reason for owning a military-pattern weapon is home defense, but even then an AR-15, AK, MP5, or any other semi-auto firearm patterened after an assault rifle or submachine gun is still a stupid choice. The best choice has always been and will always be a 12 gauge shotgun in the shortest legal length. Usually the sound of a shell being racked is enough to put any intruder off of a home invasion, and if not then 30 aught buckshot is more than enough to put a person down, even if they are wigged out on PCP or in the grip of some kind of madness. Add to that the fact that the pellets spread and therefore one doesn't have to be that accurate in order for it to be effective...

But no. Instead of even that "common sense" solution that includes a firearm, somehow that's not good enough. Somehow it goes from a simple firearm for home defense to being prepared for some sort of siege by the government stormtroopers that nessecitates a pistol in every room and several rifles in the closet in the minds of lunatics like Alex Jones. And in this sort of climate can we really expect any sort of logical thinking?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Government is, in general, a decent approximation of the will of the majority. So yes, it is the best arbiter, barring total democracy (utterly impractical) or full consensus governance (even more so).



But very rarely by enough people to make much of a difference.

The will of the majority would be relevant if the United States was a democracy.

No, the rarity is of those who have been caught.

Please don't start this whole "US is a Republic not a Democracy!!!!" shit. By all definitions the US is a representative democracy just like any other constitutional republic or monarchy in the world.

[North Calaveras]

Other than Gun Worshippers claiming that AR-15s are "hunting rifles"?

Or "plinking targets", another favorite excuse of the firearms fetishists of the nation.

The only semi-valid reason for owning a military-pattern weapon is home defense, but even then an AR-15, AK, MP5, or any other semi-auto firearm patterened after an assault rifle or submachine gun is still a stupid choice. The best choice has always been and will always be a 12 gauge shotgun in the shortest legal length. Usually the sound of a shell being racked is enough to put any intruder off of a home invasion, and if not then 30 aught buckshot is more than enough to put a person down, even if they are wigged out on PCP or in the grip of some kind of madness. Add to that the fact that the pellets spread and therefore one doesn't have to be that accurate in order for it to be effective...

But no. Instead of even that "common sense" solution that includes a firearm, somehow that's not good enough. Somehow it goes from a simple firearm for home defense to being prepared for some sort of siege by the government stormtroopers that nessecitates a pistol in every room and several rifles in the closet in the minds of lunatics like Alex Jones. And in this sort of climate can we really expect any sort of logical thinking?

Ironically the people who call the "gun lovers" paranoid sure are paranoid about firearms

[Spreewerke]

"High-cap" magazines do not need to go through an FFL. Only a receiver does since that is what is considered the firearm by the BATFE.

Considering that we are discussing a hypothetical where they have been restricted, that would have changed.

I am thoroughly enjoying how you change the points of the debate as you go, and then proceed to tell others that they are morons for having said something within the bounds of the previous statement.

[Salandriagado]

Considering that we are discussing a hypothetical where they have been restricted, that would have changed.

I am thoroughly enjoying how you change the points of the debate as you go, and then proceed to tell others that they are morons for having said something within the bounds of the previous statement.

I'm not changing my debating points at all. I am continuing a hypothetical that was brought up by another poster, and assuming (apparently wrongly) that people are capable of basic reading comprehension.

[Gauthier]

Other than Gun Worshippers claiming that AR-15s are "hunting rifles"?

Or "plinking targets", another favorite excuse of the firearms fetishists of the nation.

The only semi-valid reason for owning a military-pattern weapon is home defense, but even then an AR-15, AK, MP5, or any other semi-auto firearm patterened after an assault rifle or submachine gun is still a stupid choice. The best choice has always been and will always be a 12 gauge shotgun in the shortest legal length. Usually the sound of a shell being racked is enough to put any intruder off of a home invasion, and if not then 30 aught buckshot is more than enough to put a person down, even if they are wigged out on PCP or in the grip of some kind of madness. Add to that the fact that the pellets spread and therefore one doesn't have to be that accurate in order for it to be effective...

But no. Instead of even that "common sense" solution that includes a firearm, somehow that's not good enough. Somehow it goes from a simple firearm for home defense to being prepared for some sort of siege by the government stormtroopers that nessecitates a pistol in every room and several rifles in the closet in the minds of lunatics like Alex Jones. And in this sort of climate can we really expect any sort of logical thinking?

Soon it'll get to a point where they genuine believe screaming "WOLVERINES" will give their AR-15 enough power to stop a tank.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

[Gauthier]

Or "plinking targets", another favorite excuse of the firearms fetishists of the nation.

The only semi-valid reason for owning a military-pattern weapon is home defense, but even then an AR-15, AK, MP5, or any other semi-auto firearm patterened after an assault rifle or submachine gun is still a stupid choice. The best choice has always been and will always be a 12 gauge shotgun in the shortest legal length. Usually the sound of a shell being racked is enough to put any intruder off of a home invasion, and if not then 30 aught buckshot is more than enough to put a person down, even if they are wigged out on PCP or in the grip of some kind of madness. Add to that the fact that the pellets spread and therefore one doesn't have to be that accurate in order for it to be effective...

But no. Instead of even that "common sense" solution that includes a firearm, somehow that's not good enough. Somehow it goes from a simple firearm for home defense to being prepared for some sort of siege by the government stormtroopers that nessecitates a pistol in every room and several rifles in the closet in the minds of lunatics like Alex Jones. And in this sort of climate can we really expect any sort of logical thinking?

Ironically the people who call the "gun lovers" paranoid sure are paranoid about firearms

Hey, a SAW is perfectly legitimate for home defense and skeet!

[Mavorpen]

Its a state issue not a federal issue and in my state which has large amounts of wood lands and low police response times no I wouldnt want any infringment on my right to my guns and I would not give up my guns if the government, which has never cared about my opinion before, comes to take them.

amen to that, nobodys going to tell me what i do and don't need to defend myself or my family, law or no law.

Then move.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

I support registration, personally.

[North Calaveras]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

I'm fine with registering a gun I buy from the store, like a vehicle I think it's fine to have it registered. Problem is there is nothign stopping the government form showing up and saying " We know you have this, hand it over or you will face prison time"

[Spreewerke]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

I am opposed to registration. Not because of "What ifs?" so much as "Why?"s. If someone ends up selling a rifle to someone else, all the paperwork has to be changed, etc., and this goes on for the life of the firearm. Rather than register, why not just make a safety and handling class mandatory before one is able to purchase a firearm? Flash your hunting license or what-have-you at the gun store, and they'll know you can legally own one. Make selling it to someone without one an illegal action.

[Salandriagado]

Or "plinking targets", another favorite excuse of the firearms fetishists of the nation.

The only semi-valid reason for owning a military-pattern weapon is home defense, but even then an AR-15, AK, MP5, or any other semi-auto firearm patterened after an assault rifle or submachine gun is still a stupid choice. The best choice has always been and will always be a 12 gauge shotgun in the shortest legal length. Usually the sound of a shell being racked is enough to put any intruder off of a home invasion, and if not then 30 aught buckshot is more than enough to put a person down, even if they are wigged out on PCP or in the grip of some kind of madness. Add to that the fact that the pellets spread and therefore one doesn't have to be that accurate in order for it to be effective...

But no. Instead of even that "common sense" solution that includes a firearm, somehow that's not good enough. Somehow it goes from a simple firearm for home defense to being prepared for some sort of siege by the government stormtroopers that nessecitates a pistol in every room and several rifles in the closet in the minds of lunatics like Alex Jones. And in this sort of climate can we really expect any sort of logical thinking?

Soon it'll get to a point where they genuine believe screaming "WOLVERINES" will give their AR-15 enough power to stop a tank.

Several of them already claim that they can take on a carrier battle group with small arms and expect to last more than a minute, so I think we're well past that point.

[Mavorpen]

Soon it'll get to a point where they genuine believe screaming "WOLVERINES" will give their AR-15 enough power to stop a tank.

Several of them already claim that they can take on a carrier battle group with small arms and expect to last more than a minute, so I think we're well past that point.

I remember that one guy claiming that the tanks would just get stuck in narrow spaces.

[Grinning Dragon]

Out of curiosity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

Ill bite.
I am against registration. For me it just boils down to, it is of no ones business on what I own.

[Alidina]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

I am opposed to registration. Not because of "What ifs?" so much as "Why?"s. If someone ends up selling a rifle to someone else, all the paperwork has to be changed, etc., and this goes on for the life of the firearm. Rather than register, why not just make a safety and handling class mandatory before one is able to purchase a firearm? Flash your hunting license or what-have-you at the gun store, and they'll know you can legally own one. Make selling it to someone without one an illegal action.

that sounds fairly smart, why should I have to go though the same process for all three of my guns when I can just have one license and one set of government hoops.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Out of curiousity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

I am opposed to registration. Not because of "What ifs?" so much as "Why?"s. If someone ends up selling a rifle to someone else, all the paperwork has to be changed, etc., and this goes on for the life of the firearm. Rather than register, why not just make a safety and handling class mandatory before one is able to purchase a firearm? Flash your hunting license or what-have-you at the gun store, and they'll know you can legally own one. Make selling it to someone without one an illegal action.

Because registration helps track guns so it's easy to identify one that has been stolen and makes it near impossible for black market criminals to legally purchase guns which they go on to sell.

I can't imagine the paperwork would be any different to transferring registration of a car and I do that at least 20 times a day. You fill out some details and mail it off, simple.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Out of curiosity, who of the pro-gun group on NS is opposed to registration on the grounds that the government will know who has guns and will take them away from you before tyranny is enforced?

Ill bite.
I am against registration. For me it just boils down to, it is of no ones business on what I own.

Are you similarly opposed to registering your car and your computer software?