Only 15% of Americans accept evolution.

[Divair]

'MURICA.

[Southern Babylonia]

I see no bending of evolution in saying a divine power was involved, Darwin himself was theist, albeit Unitarian. belief in a supernatural force watching over a process doesn't have to impede on the belief in the process...

[Ifreann]

I see no bending of evolution in saying a divine power was involved, Darwin himself was theist, albeit Unitarian. belief in a supernatural force watching over a process doesn't have to impede on the belief in the process...

Kinda does, though. The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is an explanation of a set of facts. A very large set of facts. Everything we know about evolution, we know. Add God into that and you're adding something based on no facts at all, something based only on your own feelings. And hey, if that's how you want to think about the world working, that's fine. No big deal. But it's not science, and it's not equivalent to a scientific theory.

[Dyakovo]

That's what the observation and experimentation is for. There is a bit more to figuring out how the universe works than just navel-gazing about matter being made of tiny strings.

Well, the first thing is, you can build a theory on a theory on a theory, however, when one of the fundation-theories are a fallacy, then the whole system collapses.

Not saying this isn't also true for creationism, it is a law for everything.

You don't actually know a single thing about scientific theories, do you?

---

Bloody hell, I mean, these intellectual hipsters are always ridiculous, but saying "Oh, we shouldn't do it one way or the other, we need a third way that's a bit of both" and then going on to describe that third way as actually just like the one way is just making my brain hurt.

What level of science education do you think he's got? High school maybe? Perhaps a semester of general Biology, maybe even learned what "DNA" stands for?

Taking all bets!

I'm thinking elementary...

[Winrarstan]

What's next?

Occupy American Institute of Physics?

Muh 85% oppressing me

[Ifreann]

Well, the first thing is, you can build a theory on a theory on a theory, however, when one of the fundation-theories are a fallacy, then the whole system collapses.

Not saying this isn't also true for creationism, it is a law for everything.

You don't actually know a single thing about scientific theories, do you?

---

What level of science education do you think he's got? High school maybe? Perhaps a semester of general Biology, maybe even learned what "DNA" stands for?

Taking all bets!

I'm thinking elementary...

Enough to have heard something called a theory, but not enough to have learned what that actually means.

[Winrarstan]

That's what the observation and experimentation is for. There is a bit more to figuring out how the universe works than just navel-gazing about matter being made of tiny strings.

Well, the first thing is, you can build a theory on a theory on a theory, however, when one of the fundation-theories are a fallacy, then the whole system collapses.

Not saying this isn't also true for creationism, it is a law for everything.

>implying science isn't based on risks

lel

[Dyakovo]

You don't actually know a single thing about scientific theories, do you?

---

I'm thinking elementary...

Enough to have heard something called a theory, but not enough to have learned what that actually means.

Which would put it at elementary school science classes...

[Ifreann]

Enough to have heard something called a theory, but not enough to have learned what that actually means.

Which would put it at elementary school science classes...

Not my elementary school.

[The USOT]

I see no bending of evolution in saying a divine power was involved, Darwin himself was theist, albeit Unitarian. belief in a supernatural force watching over a process doesn't have to impede on the belief in the process...

Its no longer natural selection if it is unnatural or supernatural selection.
That and whilst potentially true, there is no good reason to beleive it is so.
The same way that the reason your muscles work with your bowells to excrete your stool COULD be due to invisible dancing leprechauns. But there is no decent reason to beleive that this is the case.

[Mavorpen]

This is what I mean by thinking in a bubble. You are rejecting any evidence that is not scientific as not being "real evidence."

No, I'm not. Please try to keep up. We are discussing science. Evolution is a scientific theory. To suggest ANYTHING added to it, such as adding a God, is making a scientific claim about the world. You thus need scientific evidence to support it. Or are you admitting your acceptance of evolution is not based upon evidence?

[Norvenia]

False dichotomy. Taken altogether, these data show that 47 percent of Americans affirm the statement "Humans evolved". It's just that of those, 32 percent believed that God guided the process. Now, is that science? No, obviously not; God's involvement in human evolution cannot be scientifically proven (nor, as always, can it be disproved, considering that God must be assumed to be working through the eminently verifiable processes of natural selection). But a.) it is inappropriate to say that only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution; rather, only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution as an exclusively scientific process in which God has no part whatsoever. That's a rather different thing. And b.) the belief that God works in the world through processes which are subject to scientific scrutiny is unscientific only in its acceptance of God's existence; in its interest in natural processes, its dedication to the scientific method, and its acceptance of other viewpoints and beliefs, it is a very long way from the threatened theocracy which the OP seems to think is near at hand.

[Kholdlands]

Wait a minute, I saw these exact same stats in my Evolution class the day the OP posted this thread.

[Frisivisia]

False dichotomy. Taken altogether, these data show that 47 percent of Americans affirm the statement "Humans evolved". It's just that of those, 32 percent believed that God guided the process. Now, is that science? No, obviously not; God's involvement in human evolution cannot be scientifically proven (nor, as always, can it be disproved, considering that God must be assumed to be working through the eminently verifiable processes of natural selection). But a.) it is inappropriate to say that only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution; rather, only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution as an exclusively scientific process in which God has no part whatsoever. That's a rather different thing. And b.) the belief that God works in the world through processes which are subject to scientific scrutiny is unscientific only in its acceptance of God's existence; in its interest in natural processes, its dedication to the scientific method, and its acceptance of other viewpoints and beliefs, it is a very long way from the threatened theocracy which the OP seems to think is near at hand.

47% is still a minority. And the fact that 32% of those who acknowledge evolution acknowledge it only because an unprovable God guided it makes them either bad theists or bad evolutionists.

[Vazdania]

The only sort of evolution I believe in is Pokemon evolution. XD

[Norvenia]

False dichotomy. Taken altogether, these data show that 47 percent of Americans affirm the statement "Humans evolved". It's just that of those, 32 percent believed that God guided the process. Now, is that science? No, obviously not; God's involvement in human evolution cannot be scientifically proven (nor, as always, can it be disproved, considering that God must be assumed to be working through the eminently verifiable processes of natural selection). But a.) it is inappropriate to say that only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution; rather, only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution as an exclusively scientific process in which God has no part whatsoever. That's a rather different thing. And b.) the belief that God works in the world through processes which are subject to scientific scrutiny is unscientific only in its acceptance of God's existence; in its interest in natural processes, its dedication to the scientific method, and its acceptance of other viewpoints and beliefs, it is a very long way from the threatened theocracy which the OP seems to think is near at hand.

47% is still a minority. And the fact that 32% of those who acknowledge evolution acknowledge it only because an unprovable God guided it makes them either bad theists or bad evolutionists.

Note, please, that these data only add up to 93 percent; presumably 7 percent of people surveyed didn't answer. So, of those who responded, 47 percent is a majority - a narrow majority, but a majority. As for the idea that 32 percent acknowledged evolution ONLY because an unprovable God guided it - that's a much more narrow assertion than my original suggestion. I suspect that most people in that 32 percent acknowledge evolution because it is scientifically proven, and believe that God guided it because they believe that God guides everything. So their belief in evolution is not contingent upon their belief in God, nor is their belief in God contingent upon their belief in evolution. I have no data to support this, but in the absence of data, that view of the situation must surely be acknowledged to be at least as likely as the idea that people in that 32 percent believe in evolution only because they believe in God.

[Copenhagen Metropolis]

Imagine if a huge amount of your country believed that they were in personal communication with a hair dryer. That view is about as true as anti-evolution.

You can see whether a hair dryer is talking to someone. The same is not true for events that transpired thousands of years ago.

[Tlaceceyaya]

The only sort of evolution I believe in is Pokemon evolution. XD

Because Richard Lenski faked his replicable experiment, am I right?

[Ifreann]

False dichotomy. Taken altogether, these data show that 47 percent of Americans affirm the statement "Humans evolved". It's just that of those, 32 percent believed that God guided the process. Now, is that science? No, obviously not; God's involvement in human evolution cannot be scientifically proven (nor, as always, can it be disproved, considering that God must be assumed to be working through the eminently verifiable processes of natural selection). But a.) it is inappropriate to say that only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution; rather, only 15 percent of Americans accept evolution as an exclusively scientific process in which God has no part whatsoever. That's a rather different thing. And b.) the belief that God works in the world through processes which are subject to scientific scrutiny is unscientific only in its acceptance of God's existence; in its interest in natural processes, its dedication to the scientific method, and its acceptance of other viewpoints and beliefs, it is a very long way from the threatened theocracy which the OP seems to think is near at hand.

47% is still a minority. And the fact that 32% of those who acknowledge evolution acknowledge it only because an unprovable God guided it makes them either bad theists or bad evolutionists.

And, as Bottle pointed out earlier, people saying they accept evolution doesn't mean that they actually have the slightest clue what evolution is.

Shit, I bet there's at least some of the same thing happening with evolution as happening with Obamacare. I don't remember where he got the numbers from, but Gravlen posted something a while ago showing that if you poll Americans asking about Obamacare, they don't like it. But if you poll them asking about the provisions that Obamacare sets out, but without calling it Obamacare, they do like it.

I bet there are people out there thinking "Evolution? That's bullshit. I mean, sure, life changes over time based on what best facilitates passing on its genes, but there's no evolution"

[Divair]

The only sort of evolution I believe in is Pokemon evolution. XD

Because Richard Lenski faked his replicable experiment, am I right?

Don't bother. Just be sad we live in the 21st century and we've still got people who don't understand basic science.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Because Richard Lenski faked his replicable experiment, am I right?

Don't bother. Just be sad we live in the 21st century and we've still got people who don't understand basic science.

Do you remember his old signature?

[Divair]

Don't bother. Just be sad we live in the 21st century and we've still got people who don't understand basic science.

Do you remember his old signature?

;__;

[Wikkiwallana]

If we presumed that even if God had a small role, even then only 47% believe in evolution in any form. A minority of Americans and that is just as embarrassing if not more.

Why is it embarrassing?

Because we have more evidence for evolution than pretty much anything else?

[Frisivisia]

47% is still a minority. And the fact that 32% of those who acknowledge evolution acknowledge it only because an unprovable God guided it makes them either bad theists or bad evolutionists.

Note, please, that these data only add up to 93 percent; presumably 7 percent of people surveyed didn't answer. So, of those who responded, 47 percent is a majority - a narrow majority, but a majority. As for the idea that 32 percent acknowledged evolution ONLY because an unprovable God guided it - that's a much more narrow assertion than my original suggestion. I suspect that most people in that 32 percent acknowledge evolution because it is scientifically proven, and believe that God guided it because they believe that God guides everything. So their belief in evolution is not contingent upon their belief in God, nor is their belief in God contingent upon their belief in evolution. I have no data to support this, but in the absence of data, that view of the situation must surely be acknowledged to be at least as likely as the idea that people in that 32 percent believe in evolution only because they believe in God.

It's ridiculous that scientific fact only barely squeaks it out over superstition in the most powerful, and certainly should be most educated, nation on the face of the earth. Also, I choose my wording poorly, and going on a five line long rant about the fact that I used the word "only" isn't helpful to the thread.

[Norvenia]

Again, folks, the poll numbers only add up to 93 percent. So 47 percent is actually a majority - by one percentage point, admittedly, but still a majority.