NATION

PASSWORD

Only 15% of Americans accept evolution.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What do you believe in?

Evolution
648
83%
Creationism
133
17%
 
Total votes : 781

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111671
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm

Libertarian California wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Of course. The numbers are badly presented.


We may be "dumb" compared to those uppity Europeans, but we're not that dumb. :p

We're better looking, too. And bigger.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm

The New Confederation of Free States wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Quite a bit, actually. We have breeders, teachers, scientists, doctors, parents, politicians (who have to deal with what is to be taught in our nation's schools)... and then we have the voting population. Oh right...

I would, since they vote for politicians who choose what our kids learn in schools.

Freedom from religion is a part of freedom of religion.

Separation of church and state, the US is a secular nation, Treaty of Tripoli, blah blah blah.

Yes, but because the neo-conservatives insist that we must have prayer in schools, that we must teach creationism - I'm sorry, intelligent design in schools, that gays should not have the right to get married, etc. Not because we're trying to teach science in a science classroom, where it belongs.

In order:
1) I'm assuming the people who make it though medical school and science programs do in fact believe in evolution :palm:
2) I guess you have a point there, but remember: 46% is not a majority and if some town decides to teach intelligent design in it's schools then what skin is it off your back and what would you do about it? Get the Federal government involved in it?
3) Freedom of religion means the government isn't going to adopt an official religion, force a religion on you, or persecute you for your religion/atheism. It doesn't mean that people can only worship in their homes and churches or that any expression of faith in public place or by a public official must be stopped, which I honestly believe many of the more radical atheist groups support and have been somewhat successful in doing.
4) Sure, there are politicians advocating that. But how much support do they have, on a national level? Are the acts they put in place, like Clinton's DOMA, gaining or losing support?

1) There's some people who don't believe in evolution and yet are scientists and doctors and whatnot. :/ I don't know why.
2) Uh yes? Separation of church and state for one. First Amendment anyone?
3) Of course freedom of religion means that. But I would rather not have football games opened by prayers and have my local DMV have a huge Nativity scene on the front lawn.
4) Not sure, but it's enough so that they'll keep proposing them to get votes.
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Northern Dominus
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14337
Founded: Aug 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dominus » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm

Libertarian California wrote:I think that more than 15% of Americans accept evolution...
Or at least the results of the random sample tests tend to be skewed due to the fact that by and large people who think that evolution is the most logical answer don't have time to answer because they have better things to do. This is because they're probably not ideology zealots and fit into society IE having a job and occupations outside of a very narrow set of values, than the staunch creationists that took the time to answer the poll and stump for their "values" because they didn't have anything better to do then answer a random sampling.
Battletech RP: Giant walking war machines, space to surface fighters, and other implements blowing things up= lots of fun! Sign up here
We even have a soundtrack!

RIP Caroll Shelby 1923-2012
Aurora, Oak Creek, Happy Valley, Sandy Hook. Just how high a price are we willing to pay?

User avatar
Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:16 pm

In 2010, 54% of Americans accepted evolution in some shape or form. It's the conservative politicians making it go the other way.
Last edited by Geilinor on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

User avatar
TomKirk
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1379
Founded: May 08, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby TomKirk » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:17 pm

Libertarian California wrote:I think that more than 15% of Americans accept evolution...

Yes. 47% accept evolution, but only 15% disbelieve in God.
[puppet of Tmutarakhan]
YoLandII: " How is mutation natural? Just because it occurs in nature doesn't mean it's natural. It is not supposed to happen. It is accidental."
Salamanstrom: "Saying it is wrong since it calls it something that was used then is stupid. It's like saying a guy from the 1800s is stupid since he calls an ipod a radio."
Lunatic Goofballs: "The shoe is the pie of the Middle East. The poor bastards."

User avatar
Conscentia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26681
Founded: Feb 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Conscentia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:23 pm

TomKirk wrote:
Libertarian California wrote:I think that more than 15% of Americans accept evolution...

Yes. 47% accept evolution, but only 15% disbelieve in God.

No.
15% accept the scientific Theory of Evolution.
46% believe in the unscientific concept of theistic evolution.
The rest are creationists & unsure people.

User avatar
United States of Peace
Minister
 
Posts: 2314
Founded: Dec 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby United States of Peace » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:40 pm

I believe in evolution, yet I also believe in a higher being, what is that called?

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:41 pm

United States of Peace wrote:I believe in evolution, yet I also believe in a higher being, what is that called?

Theistic evolution.
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Laerod
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26183
Founded: Jul 17, 2004
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Laerod » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:43 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Libertarian California wrote:
We may be "dumb" compared to those uppity Europeans, but we're not that dumb. :p

We're better looking, too. And bigger.

Not the good kind of bigger, though.

User avatar
United States of Peace
Minister
 
Posts: 2314
Founded: Dec 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby United States of Peace » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
United States of Peace wrote:I believe in evolution, yet I also believe in a higher being, what is that called?

Theistic evolution.


Ahh, thank you for telling me, what about Intelligent design? How does that work in relation to evolution?

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:44 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Theistic evolution.


Ahh, thank you for telling me, what about Intelligent design? How does that work in relation to evolution?

It doesn't.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:45 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Theistic evolution.

Ahh, thank you for telling me, what about Intelligent design? How does that work in relation to evolution?

Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Enadail
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Enadail » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:46 pm

The New Confederation of Free States wrote:4) Sure, there are politicians advocating that. But how much support do they have, on a national level? Are the acts they put in place, like Clinton's DOMA, gaining or losing support?


When members of the House Science Committee, eg, the people who advice and usually put forth laws on science, people who think some of the most accepted scientific theories around are wrong, you have a problem at the highest level. Ralph Hall, the head, doesn't believe in climate change (accepted by the vast majority of the climatology community), Paul Broun rejects pretty much anything that doesn't match with the bible, we all remember Todd Akin (I'm pretty sure he was on the science committee), Sandy Adams doesn't believe in evolution, and that's just a few.

The very people in charge of putting forth laws based on or relating to science don't believe in science. So ah, its a pretty much problem. And while they may not have been able to put forth anything yet, they also prevent action from happening by not allowing a science related bill to leave committee (if you're unaware of how it works, each committee puts out bills relating to its field... the committee on education can't put out a bill about supporting the construction of nuclear power plants).
Last edited by Enadail on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
United States of Peace
Minister
 
Posts: 2314
Founded: Dec 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby United States of Peace » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:47 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
United States of Peace wrote:Ahh, thank you for telling me, what about Intelligent design? How does that work in relation to evolution?

Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.


Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:48 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.

Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?

That there is no evidence to suggest that God exists.
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Ceannairceach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26637
Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ceannairceach » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:48 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.


Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?

Lack of evidence in regards to his alleged interventions is a good one, depending on the god in question, also the impossibility of omnipotence and omniscience, and the functioning of the universe without a creator being not only possible, but likely.
Last edited by Ceannairceach on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@}-;-'---

"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most..." -Mark Twain

User avatar
Enadail
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Enadail » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:49 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.


Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?


You don't refute the existence of God, because that's trying to prove a negative claim. You support a positive claim. Its up to those who believe in God to provide evidence of his existence. But as God exists outside the bounds of the natural world, science doesn't care. However, when religious people start claiming natural occurrences are acts of God, that's when science gets involved and pretty much shows its not necessary to add God into the equation.

User avatar
Laerod
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26183
Founded: Jul 17, 2004
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Laerod » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:49 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.


Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?

That you need to show God exists.

User avatar
North Stradia
Minister
 
Posts: 2077
Founded: Jan 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby North Stradia » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:50 pm

United States of Peace wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Intelligent design is creationism with another name. In other words, bullshit.


Okay then. If I could ask, what are the arguments that people use to refute the existence of God?

You are the one making an assertion (that "god" exists). The burden of proof is on you.

Arguments that consist of "Goddidit" and logical fallacies will not be accepted. Creationism is about as scientific as Time Cube.
I am a Feudo-capitalist, egoist, and a supporter of plutocracy.
R.I.P. Sark, the last feudalist State in the world, born 933, died 2008
Economic Left/Right: +9.89
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: +8.12
Foreign Policy Non-Interventionist/Neocon: +5.88
Cultural Liberal/Conservative: +2.90

User avatar
Xsyne
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6537
Founded: Apr 30, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Xsyne » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:52 pm

TomKirk wrote:
Libertarian California wrote:I think that more than 15% of Americans accept evolution...

Yes. 47% accept evolution, but only 15% disbelieve in God.

15% do not believe God had a role in human evolution. That does not mean they do not believe in God. (If I'm remembering it correctly, the official position of the Roman Catholic Church would fall under that umbrella.)
If global warming is real, why are there still monkeys? - Msigroeg
Pro: Stuff
Anti: Things
Chernoslavia wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:according to both the law library of congress and wikipedia, both automatics and semi-autos that can be easily converted are outright banned in norway.


Source?

User avatar
The New Confederation of Free States
Attaché
 
Posts: 74
Founded: Dec 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Confederation of Free States » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:53 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
The New Confederation of Free States wrote:In order:
1) I'm assuming the people who make it though medical school and science programs do in fact believe in evolution :palm:
2) I guess you have a point there, but remember: 46% is not a majority and if some town decides to teach intelligent design in it's schools then what skin is it off your back and what would you do about it? Get the Federal government involved in it?
3) Freedom of religion means the government isn't going to adopt an official religion, force a religion on you, or persecute you for your religion/atheism. It doesn't mean that people can only worship in their homes and churches or that any expression of faith in public place or by a public official must be stopped, which I honestly believe many of the more radical atheist groups support and have been somewhat successful in doing.
4) Sure, there are politicians advocating that. But how much support do they have, on a national level? Are the acts they put in place, like Clinton's DOMA, gaining or losing support?

1) There's some people who don't believe in evolution and yet are scientists and doctors and whatnot. :/ I don't know why.
2) Uh yes? Separation of church and state for one. First Amendment anyone?
3) Of course freedom of religion means that. But I would rather not have football games opened by prayers and have my local DMV have a huge Nativity scene on the front lawn.
4) Not sure, but it's enough so that they'll keep proposing them to get votes.

1) Huh, really??? Like in evolution related fields? I mean, like maybe an astronomer could get away with, but those who work with biological research? (not sarcasm, honestly a little surprised)
2) Ok, so if you're that confident in it then why worry about these numbers or that politicians would propose to teach it in schools? Wouldn't the courts be there so step in and stop it?
3) Really? Is it that much of a personal insult to you when people worship or pray openly?
4) In the "Solid South" maybe... But for the mainstream Republicans these positions usually hurt them in general elections. I mean, these social positions are generally attributed as part of the reason that they preformed so poorly in the 2012 elections.

User avatar
Enadail
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Enadail » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 pm

Xsyne wrote:
TomKirk wrote:Yes. 47% accept evolution, but only 15% disbelieve in God.

15% do not believe God had a role in human evolution. That does not mean they do not believe in God. (If I'm remembering it correctly, the official position of the Roman Catholic Church would fall under that umbrella.)


Nah, the Roman Catholic Church believes that evolution happens, but under God's guidance. Which means its not really evolution at all. Just change.

User avatar
United States of Peace
Minister
 
Posts: 2314
Founded: Dec 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby United States of Peace » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 pm

Ahh, okay then. My own personal opinion is that evolution is true, and that it should be fully taught in schools. Yet, for some reason I cannot reconcile myself that there is some sort of higher being in the universe, even through there is a complete lack of evidence. I'm American by the way. Not too sure how that influences my outlook. How is Europe compared to America in terms of evolution acceptance?

User avatar
Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mavorpen » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:55 pm

The New Confederation of Free States wrote:3) Really? Is it that much of a personal insult to you when people worship or pray openly?

That's not what she meant.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:57 pm

United States of Peace wrote:I believe in evolution, yet I also believe in a higher being, what is that called?

It depends.
Do you think that your deity has a hand in the operation?
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Acts238, Doichtland, El Lazaro, Existential Cats, Ifreann, Port Caverton, The Jamesian Republic, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads