[POLL] What is your political ideology?

[Seshephe]

In what universe does Anarcho Capitalism warrant more space than Communism?

What possible reason could someone have for being a communist instead of a social democrat? I just can not wrap my head around that. To me communism is Socialism but non-democratic. That is to say viva la revolution, let's cut of the heads of everyone who disagrees with us.

To me that's only very marginally better than being a Nazi.... Maybe someone wants to enlighten me?

(also, I'm a modern liberal of sorts)

[Rereumrari]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printab ... &soc=-3.69
Honestly i'm pretty surprised.

[Alowwvia]

Classical Liberalism.


Freedom and Rights > Security, Feelings, and all that.

[New Dallsiph]

Probably social democrat by these poll standards, but I consider myself a social libertarian

[Threlizdun]

[region-tag=][/region-tag]

What possible reason could someone have for being a communist instead of a social democrat? I just can not wrap my head around that. To me communism is Socialism but non-democratic. That is to say viva la revolution, let's cut of the heads of everyone who disagrees with us.

To me that's only very marginally better than being a Nazi.... Maybe someone wants to enlighten me?

(also, I'm a modern liberal of sorts)

Not even remotely accurate. Communism requires democracy, both on a political and economic level. You are thinking of the authoritarian state capitalism of Leninists, rather than the stateless system of communism.

[Seshephe]

[region-tag=][/region-tag]

What possible reason could someone have for being a communist instead of a social democrat? I just can not wrap my head around that. To me communism is Socialism but non-democratic. That is to say viva la revolution, let's cut of the heads of everyone who disagrees with us.

To me that's only very marginally better than being a Nazi.... Maybe someone wants to enlighten me?

(also, I'm a modern liberal of sorts)

Not even remotely accurate. Communism requires democracy, both on a political and economic level. You are thinking of the authoritarian state capitalism of Leninists, rather than the stateless system of communism.

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

[Divair]

[region-tag=][/region-tag]Not even remotely accurate. Communism requires democracy, both on a political and economic level. You are thinking of the authoritarian state capitalism of Leninists, rather than the stateless system of communism.

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

You're so wrong it isn't even funny.

[Baiynistan]

Practically, I'm a Social Democrat. Ideologically, I'm a Left-Libertarian Socialist/Anarcho-Syndacalist Commie-thing.

[Delvoir]

A liberal monarchist.

[Seshephe]

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

You're so wrong it isn't even funny.

From the top of the wiki article on communism
"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement"
This is at the very least how the majority of people I know view communism. If I am so wrong, I'd be glad to hear your argument as to why I am wrong.

[Gorgashia]

[region-tag=][/region-tag]Not even remotely accurate. Communism requires democracy, both on a political and economic level. You are thinking of the authoritarian state capitalism of Leninists, rather than the stateless system of communism.

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

[Napkiraly]

I can't particularly say to be honest, I don't like to label myself with ideologies.

[Seshephe]

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

Well, where I live, the people calling themselves communists have traditionally been the people who wanted to overthrow democracy (revolution) so excuse me if I'm suspicious of people who call themselves communists. To me it seems rather insensitive considering the history of how the term has been used. The term Socialist is well understood by everyone and I can not see why you would not use that term instead as it seems to describe the views of most of the people who do so perfectly adequately.

[Divair]

You're so wrong it isn't even funny.

From the top of the wiki article on communism
"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement"
This is at the very least how the majority of people I know view communism. If I am so wrong, I'd be glad to hear your argument as to why I am wrong.

Keep reading the very same sentence.

"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production"

[Divair]

You can choose to re-define words however you like but historically, as far as I am aware, the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists, the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

Social democrats are not socialists nor advocate the achievement of socialism. Social democrats are mixed market capitalists.

[Gorgashia]

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

Well, where I live, the people calling themselves communists have traditionally been the people who wanted to overthrow democracy (revolution) so excuse me if I'm suspicious of people who call themselves communists. To me it seems rather insensitive considering the history of how the term has been used. The term Socialist is well understood by everyone and I can not see why you would not use that term instead as it seems to describe your views perfectly adequately.

True, most versions of Communism do advocate overthrowing the current system through violent means, but not all versions of Communism advocate this.

By the way, by; "Overthrowing democracy (revolution)" do you mean that there are Communists that wish to overthrow the current democratic system, or do away with democracy altogether?

If it's the former, than they might still believe in democracy, they just want a democratic system Communism advocates.

If it's the latter, those folks are probably Stalinists/Maoists/etc. who many Communists argue aren't even Communist. In my eyes, they are State Socialist.

Actually, Socialist isn't even that well understood. Most folks think it means huge welfare and lots of bloated public systems supplied by large taxes. In truth, it's just giving the workers control of the means of production and distribution of capital. You don't need welfare systems or public healthcare systems to be Socialist, though Socialists are usually in support of these.

[Gorgashia]

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

Social democrats are not socialists nor advocate the achievement of socialism. Social democrats are mixed market capitalists.

Ah, my mistake, I Got some things mixed up.

You are correct. One of the biggest differences between Democratic Socialism and Social Democray is the Democratic Socialism wishes to utilize Socialist economic systems while Social Democracy wishes to utilize mixed market Capitalism/ Social Corporatism.

[Seshephe]

From the top of the wiki article on communism
"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement"
This is at the very least how the majority of people I know view communism. If I am so wrong, I'd be glad to hear your argument as to why I am wrong.

Keep reading the very same sentence.

"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production"

Eh..... ? I did, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The key word was revolutionary. In other words, democracy isn't enough, we have to force people to accept our views if they won't on their own.

Firstly, Socialism and Communism where both crafted by Karl Marx. Socialism wasn't made in opposition to Communism, it was thought of as the road to Communism.

Secondly, what you are describing are the Democratic Socialist movements and ideologies that were opposed to the Bloshivicks, not Communists in general, who they thought were responsible for mucking up the Socialist system in Russia.

Lastly, Social Democrats are a reformed version of Democratic Socialism which is a reformed version of Marxist Socialism. Democratic Socialists in general believe in achieving Socialism through peaceful, democratic, means. Just as much as the Social Democrats.

Social democrats are not socialists nor advocate the achievement of socialism. Social democrats are mixed market capitalists.

That may be your personal definitions but that is not how most people view those terms.

Well, where I live, the people calling themselves communists have traditionally been the people who wanted to overthrow democracy (revolution) so excuse me if I'm suspicious of people who call themselves communists. To me it seems rather insensitive considering the history of how the term has been used. The term Socialist is well understood by everyone and I can not see why you would not use that term instead as it seems to describe your views perfectly adequately.

True, most versions of Communism do advocate overthrowing the current system through violent means, but not all versions of Communism advocate this.

By the way, by; "Overthrowing democracy (revolution)" do you mean that there are Communists that wish to overthrow the current democratic system, or do away with democracy altogether?

If it's the former, than they might still believe in democracy, they just want a democratic system Communism advocates.

If it's the latter, those folks are probably Stalinists/Maoists/etc. who many Communists argue aren't even Communist. In my eyes, they are State Socialist.

Actually, Socialist isn't even that well understood. Most folks think it means huge welfare and lots of bloated public systems supplied by large taxes. In truth, it's just giving the workers control of the means of production and distribution of capital. You don't need welfare systems or public healthcare systems to be Socialist, though Socialists are usually in support of these.

Stalin claimed to want democracy as well, sorry if someone doesn't think that it's a good idea to work to get support for their reforms by convincing people in the present democratic system but instead feels that everyone else needs to be violently forced to accept "their" version of democracy I'm going to be very very suspicious of them.

[Divair]

Keep reading the very same sentence.

"Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production"

Eh..... ? I did, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The key word was revolutionary. In other words, democracy isn't enough, we have to force people to accept our views if they won't on their own.

Not necessary violent revolution nor is it a revolution concerning democracy (since, you know, no state = replaced by full democracy), it's a revolution concerning the economic system of capitalism.

In addition, this is wrong:

the term Socialist was invented specifically in opposition to the communists,

The term socialist was not invented in opposition to communists. Communism is a variant of socialism.

the only real differences between the ideologies being that the social democrats were a little less extreme and wanted reform via democratic means were possible, rather than via revolutionary means.

Social democrats have no connection to communists whatsoever.

[Divair]

That may be your personal definitions but that is not how most people view those terms.

Argumentum ad populum fallacy. People are irrelevant when they are wrong.

You're also thinking of democratic socialism, not social democracy.

[Zweite Alaje]

Seshephe, please stop talking, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

[Divair]

Seshephe, please stop talking, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Alaje.

[Seshephe]

Eh..... ? I did, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The key word was revolutionary. In other words, democracy isn't enough, we have to force people to accept our views if they won't on their own.

Not necessary violent revolution nor is it a revolution concerning democracy (since, you know, no state = replaced by full democracy), it's a revolution concerning the economic system of capitalism.
.

....hmmm... Not necessarily? Sorry, but if you call yourself a communist I'm going to be very suspicious of you. I would consider it only mildly less... insulting, for lack of a better word, than calling yourself a Nazi. Is it possible to call yourself a National Socialist and still have a good, non racist ideology? Yes. Is it a good term to use for your political views? No.
That's my opinion.

[Divair]

Not necessary violent revolution nor is it a revolution concerning democracy (since, you know, no state = replaced by full democracy), it's a revolution concerning the economic system of capitalism.
.

....hmmm... Not necessarily? Sorry, but if you call yourself a communist I'm going to be very suspicious of you. I would consider it only mildly less... insulting, for lack of a better word, than calling yourself a Nazi.

I'm not a communist, I'm fixing your misconceptions. There are many communists, however, who do not advocate violent revolution, but rather non-violent revolution or transformation through a gradual process.

[Zweite Alaje]

Seshephe, please stop talking, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Alaje.

You guys always say that. I'm not that disagreeable, am I?