Arizona Sheriff Calls for Armed "Posse" in Schools

[AiliailiA]

Care to source that.

yes. ^_^ http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_g ... roductive/

It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownership necessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.)

eh. It suggests the latter.

It's 20 000 words with footnotes. Rather than expecting us to read it, perhaps you could give us a short summary of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy study article.

I haven't read it myself, but I noticed that it does not call itself a "study". It's an article.

[Tyrants]

Why is it some Americans think the solution to gun crime is more guns? You don't solve a problem by adding more problems to the original problem. Instead, you solve a problem by taking away the problem: in this case, taking the guns out of the equation.

[LeftNightmare]

Why is it some Americans think the solution to gun crime is more guns? You don't solve a problem by adding more problems to the original problem. Instead, you solve a problem by taking away the problem: in this case, taking the guns out of the equation.

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

[Tyrants]

Why is it some Americans think the solution to gun crime is more guns? You don't solve a problem by adding more problems to the original problem. Instead, you solve a problem by taking away the problem: in this case, taking the guns out of the equation.

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

Yeh, but they were bank robbers, who would have had some connection to the criminal underworld. The shooters at Virgina Tech, Columbine, Sandy Hook, they were all regular teens with no real connection to the criminal underworld, who had access to guns and did atrocious things. America needs to stop those sorts of people committing that sort of crimes.

[North Calaveras]

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

Yeh, but they were bank robbers, who would have had some connection to the criminal underworld. The shooters at Virgina Tech, Columbine, Sandy Hook, they were all regular teens with no real connection to the criminal underworld, who had access to guns and did atrocious things. America needs to stop those sorts of people committing that sort of crimes.

These things are so rare it's not even worth debating

[Tyrants]

Yeh, but they were bank robbers, who would have had some connection to the criminal underworld. The shooters at Virgina Tech, Columbine, Sandy Hook, they were all regular teens with no real connection to the criminal underworld, who had access to guns and did atrocious things. America needs to stop those sorts of people committing that sort of crimes.

These things are so rare it's not even worth debating

You say this, but, with that attitude, there will be a mass shooting and people will ignore it. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that too. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that as well. Then there will be another mass shooting...

[North Calaveras]

These things are so rare it's not even worth debating

You say this, but, with that attitude, there will be a mass shooting and people will ignore it. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that too. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that as well. Then there will be another mass shooting...

Yep, life goes on, people live and people die, there will be a shooting next year and the year after it and the media will blow it out of proportion like it always does.

There are millions....and millions...of guns in the united states, yet the tiniest of fraction of them are used in crimes and I for one like the ability to defend myself from others who will no doubt have guns whether the government outlaws them or not.

[Trotskylvania]

These things are so rare it's not even worth debating

You say this, but, with that attitude, there will be a mass shooting and people will ignore it. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that too. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that as well. Then there will be another mass shooting...

Yeah, they happen. So what? So do individual murders. We don't engage in Quixotic policies to stop ordinary murders, and they are far more prevalent. Why do that with much rarer mass shootings?

From a public policy standpoint, it is worse than useless to spend your resources trying to stop mass shootings alltogether. What should be done is identifying the most cost effective ways of mitigating the problem. In this case, it's no more mass media coverage of mass shootings, coupled with better mental health services.

[North Calaveras]

You say this, but, with that attitude, there will be a mass shooting and people will ignore it. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that too. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that as well. Then there will be another mass shooting...

Yeah, they happen. So what? So do individual murders. We don't engage in Quixotic policies to stop ordinary murders, and they are far more prevalent. Why do that with much rarer mass shootings?

From a public policy standpoint, it is worse than useless to spend your resources trying to stop mass shootings alltogether. What should be done is identifying the most cost effective ways of mitigating the problem. In this case, it's no more mass media coverage of mass shootings, coupled with better mental health services.

This ^

[Tyrants]

You say this, but, with that attitude, there will be a mass shooting and people will ignore it. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that too. Then there will be another mass shooting and people will ignore that as well. Then there will be another mass shooting...

Yep, life goes on, people live and people die, there will be a shooting next year and the year after it and the media will blow it out of proportion like it always does.

There are millions....and millions...of guns in the united states, yet the tiniest of fraction of them are used in crimes and I for one like the ability to defend myself from others who will no doubt have guns whether the government outlaws them or not.

I respect that, however do you need more than one gun to defend yourself? Adam Lanza had access to 5. Do you think his mother needed 5 guns to defend herself?

Best source atm: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51468.html

[North Calaveras]

Yep, life goes on, people live and people die, there will be a shooting next year and the year after it and the media will blow it out of proportion like it always does.

There are millions....and millions...of guns in the united states, yet the tiniest of fraction of them are used in crimes and I for one like the ability to defend myself from others who will no doubt have guns whether the government outlaws them or not.

I respect that, however do you need more than one gun to defend yourself? Adam Lanza had access to 5. Do you think his mother needed 5 guns to defend herself?

Best source atm: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51468.html

I can have as many guns as I want, I don't give a crap how many he had acess to, the guns didn't provoke him to do anything, it was a matter of negligence on his mothers part, not the firearms fault.

[AiliailiA]

Why is it some Americans think the solution to gun crime is more guns? You don't solve a problem by adding more problems to the original problem. Instead, you solve a problem by taking away the problem: in this case, taking the guns out of the equation.

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

The North Hollywood shootout.

What is most remarkable about it is that police had previously caught the two men driving around heavily armed with false numberplates in their car, charged them with conspiracy to commit armed robbery, had them convicted ... and then returned their guns to them.

You don't think that ridiculous situation called for just a little more gun control?

[Tyrants]

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

The North Hollywood shootout.

What is most remarkable about it is that police had previously caught the two men driving around heavily armed with false numberplates in their car, charged them with conspiracy to commit armed robbery, had them convicted ... and then returned their guns to them.

You don't think that ridiculous situation called for just a little more gun control?

This ^

[North Calaveras]

Impossible. Back in the 90s in LA (California, btw, has the toughest gun laws around), two bank robbers held off 300 cops for half an hour with AK-47s that were outfitted with 100 round magazines and armor piercing ammo. It was after Clinton banned assault rifles.

The North Hollywood shootout.

What is most remarkable about it is that police had previously caught the two men driving around heavily armed with false numberplates in their car, charged them with conspiracy to commit armed robbery, had them convicted ... and then returned their guns to them.

You don't think that ridiculous situation called for just a little more gun control?

sounds like human error on part of the police, not the need for more gun laws.

[AiliailiA]

The North Hollywood shootout.

What is most remarkable about it is that police had previously caught the two men driving around heavily armed with false numberplates in their car, charged them with conspiracy to commit armed robbery, had them convicted ... and then returned their guns to them.

You don't think that ridiculous situation called for just a little more gun control?

sounds like human error on part of the police, not the need for more gun laws.

Perhaps you'd like to find out if it was human error.

[Tyrants]

The North Hollywood shootout.

What is most remarkable about it is that police had previously caught the two men driving around heavily armed with false numberplates in their car, charged them with conspiracy to commit armed robbery, had them convicted ... and then returned their guns to them.

You don't think that ridiculous situation called for just a little more gun control?

sounds like human error on part of the police, not the need for more gun laws.

Still, two guys driving around with a car full of guns and all they get pulled over for and charged with is fake plates.

[North Calaveras]

sounds like human error on part of the police, not the need for more gun laws.

Perhaps you'd like to find out if it was human error.

nah, that's sounds like a job for CSI or something

[North Calaveras]

sounds like human error on part of the police, not the need for more gun laws.

Still, two guys driving around with a car full of guns and all they get pulled over for and charged with is fake plates.

shit happens, people slip through the nets at times, were not going to change our entire society over a few incidents.

[Dyakovo]

Perhaps you'd like to find out if it was human error.

nah, that's sounds like a job for CSI or something

Why would it be the job of a bad TV show rather of the person making the claim?

[North Calaveras]

nah, that's sounds like a job for CSI or something

Why would it be the job of a bad TV show rather of the person making the claim?

investigators or some shit, idk

[AiliailiA]

Perhaps you'd like to find out if it was human error.

nah, that's sounds like a job for CSI or something

Five minutes with google. I found out.

And you know what? I'm not going to tell you. You can take that as me discovering it was "human error" and not wanting to admit I was wrong, or you can take it as me waiting in ambush for later. But I'm just not going to tell you.

Apparently, you're too lazy to find out before basing your opinion on what it "sounds like". I don't see why I should help you with that.

[North Calaveras]

nah, that's sounds like a job for CSI or something

Five minutes with google. I found out.

And you know what? I'm not going to tell you. You can take that as me discovering it was "human error" and not wanting to admit I was wrong, or you can take it as me waiting in ambush for later. But I'm just not going to tell you.

Apparently, you're too lazy to find out before basing your opinion on what it "sounds like". I don't see why I should help you with that.

no one said you should help me...

[Tyrants]

Still, two guys driving around with a car full of guns and all they get pulled over for and charged with is fake plates.

shit happens

Try saying that to the 273 victims of mass shootings in America since 2000. That's on average just over 22 people killed every year by the hand of a mass murderer.

[North Calaveras]

shit happens

Try saying that to the 273 victims of mass shootings in America since 2000. That's on average just over 22 people killed every year by the hand of a mass murderer.

there are over 350 MILLION Americans...

I would say it right to their face, there were just unlucky, I won't compromise my rights because of crying eyes and feel-good campaigns against guns.

[Dyakovo]

shit happens

Try saying that to the 273 victims of mass shootings in America since 2000. That's on average just over 22 people killed every year by the hand of a mass murderer.

Okay... There's approximately 40k fatalities each year from traffic accidents...