Christian Discussion Thread II

[Dyakovo]

My standpoint is that if the evidence isn't verifiable, it is worthless.

Well that's a problem because while all proof is evidence, not all evidence is necessarily proof.

How is it a problem? Your mini-rant about evidence and proof doesn't address my statement at all.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well that's a problem because while all proof is evidence, not all evidence is necessarily proof.

How is it a problem? Your mini-rant about evidence and proof doesn't address my statement at all.

Nevermind I misunderstood your statement, you're right the Virgin birth isn't proof because it's not verifiable. Hence why i had said would be.


However evidence still exists, it just depends on your point of view.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Ah okay the verse must be viewed in context.


23 Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches[d] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

28 Then Peter began to say to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You.”

29 So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, 30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”


It's not saying that God can do anything. It's saying two separate things.

Take 26 and we'll call it 27a.

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God


It's discussing salvation. It's saying men cannot save themselves, they are saved by God. the foundation of the Sola Gratia concept.

27b for with God all things are possible.” Which means with God anything can be achieved. Another translation says "Through God" rather than With God (English really is a bitch) which means more that Man can achieve anything with faith in God.

So, they can do anything that GOD permits, correct?

Before I say yes or no, what are you getting at?

[Neo Rome Republic]

How is it a problem? Your mini-rant about evidence and proof doesn't address my statement at all.

Nevermind I misunderstood your statement, you're right the Virgin birth isn't proof because it's not verifiable. Hence why i had said would be.


However evidence still exists, it just depends on your point of view.

And, it goes against all known, biologically scientific evidence and, knowledge on human reproduction.

[Neo Rome Republic]

So, they can do anything that GOD permits, correct?

Before I say yes or no, what are you getting at?

If with God ANYTHING is possible, it validates the omnipotence paradox. If by anything you mean,that which he permits then, it does not. So out of the two what is the proper context?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Before I say yes or no, what are you getting at?

If with God ANYTHING is possible, it validates the omnipotence paradox. If by anything you mean,that which he permits then, it does not.

Yeah, it means through God you can achieve anything. In the same way you tell a kid "You can be what ever you wanna be". Can he be a Dinosaur? no. You can achieve anything, but by the token God can say "nope" so the anything he permits is the correct idea.

[The Holy Michigan Empire]

How the hell does not mentioned biblical scrolls go into Paradoxes.

Scroll back the pages and you'll find out.

After reading the shit of bashing on all sides, it's safe to say I am not going to touch this shit with a 10 foot poll.

However, I find it depressing that trash talking about my faith seems to what started this shit to begin with.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Nevermind I misunderstood your statement, you're right the Virgin birth isn't proof because it's not verifiable. Hence why i had said would be.


However evidence still exists, it just depends on your point of view.

And, it goes against all known, biologically scientific evidence and, knowledge on human reproduction.

Okay, but like I said POV. If you believe that God created the universe, he thus has power over the universe and can rearrange matter at the scientific matter at the subatomic level to tun an egg into a zygote thus fertilizing a Virgin.

The fact that it under normal circumstances it's fucking impossible is why it's the "Miraculous" virgin birth.

[Dyakovo]

Scroll back the pages and you'll find out.

After reading the shit of bashing on all sides, it's safe to say I am not going to touch this shit with a 10 foot poll.

However, I find it depressing that trash talking about my faith seems to what started this shit to begin with.

One more time, in English though...

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Scroll back the pages and you'll find out.

After reading the shit of bashing on all sides, it's safe to say I am not going to touch this shit with a 10 foot poll.

However, I find it depressing that trash talking about my faith seems to what started this shit to begin with.

18 "If the world hates you, just remember that it has hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, then the world would love you as its own. But I chose you from this world, and you do not belong to it; that is why the world hates you.

[Dyakovo]

And, it goes against all known, biologically scientific evidence and, knowledge on human reproduction.

Okay, but like I said POV. If you believe that God created the universe, he thus has power over the universe and can rearrange matter at the scientific matter at the subatomic level to tun an egg into a zygote thus fertilizing a Virgin.

There is no verifiable evidence to support this though.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Okay, but like I said POV. If you believe that God created the universe, he thus has power over the universe and can rearrange matter at the scientific matter at the subatomic level to tun an egg into a zygote thus fertilizing a Virgin.

There is no verifiable evidence to support this though.

That's not the point.

[The Holy Michigan Empire]

After reading the shit of bashing on all sides, it's safe to say I am not going to touch this shit with a 10 foot poll.

However, I find it depressing that trash talking about my faith seems to what started this shit to begin with.

One more time, in English though...

Am I typing in Moonspeak?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

One more time, in English though...

Am I typing in Moonspeak?

Google translate that shit.

[The Holy Michigan Empire]

Am I typing in Moonspeak?

Google translate that shit.

Shit, shit moonspeak isn't a offical language.

[The Orson Empire]

What are we debating about?

[The Holy Michigan Empire]

What are we debating about?

Shit Moonspeach currently.

[Dyakovo]

There is no verifiable evidence to support this though.

That's not the point.

Actually, it is exactly my point.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

That's not the point.

Actually, it is exactly my point.

No he's saying the fact that because it goes against the scientific knowledge, means it couldn't happen. But it is possible by divine action.

[Dyakovo]

Actually, it is exactly my point.

No he's saying the fact that because it goes against the scientific knowledge, means it couldn't happen. But it is possible by divine action.

There's zero verifiable evidence that divine action exists.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

No he's saying the fact that because it goes against the scientific knowledge, means it couldn't happen. But it is possible by divine action.

There's zero verifiable evidence that divine action exists.

There's zero verifiable evidence for the cause of gravity. Unless the HIggs Bosen does.

[Linaresa]

Some of my relatives are Catholic. But they quit church a while ago.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Some of my relatives are Catholic. But they quit church a while ago.

.....cool?

[Neo Rome Republic]

There's zero verifiable evidence that divine action exists.

There's zero verifiable evidence for the cause of gravity.

Gravity vs. virgin birth
I'm sorry but, I'm not seeing the correlation.

[North Americans]

So is this where we discuss differences between denominations of Christianity or whether Christianity exists?