Christian Discussion Thread II

[Tarsonis Survivors]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

A very good read.

I won't read something you can't even explain yourself.

I didn't toss it up as anything but an interesting read.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well such loss is a requirement for such an act.

And if he can't eliminate the loss, then there is a limit to his power.

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

[Neo Rome Republic]

And if he can't eliminate the loss, then there is a limit to his power.

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

But he can't retain his power after creating the stone so there is still something he can't do.
I don't see why you were complaining; I find this conversation interesting.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

And if he can't eliminate the loss, then there is a limit to his power.

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

You really don't understand the idea of omnipotence. The whole point of it is that one can do anything, and therefore God should be able to perform such an act without limiting his power, or indeed, being required to surrender it.

[Angleter]

Omnipotence does not cover nonsense. "A rock that is too heavy for an omnipotent being to lift" is a nonsense - by definition, there is no such thing. Likewise a square circle, a kilogram-long line, and a cat that smells red.

An all-powerful being should still be able to create it by its very definition.

If one is to argue that an omnipotent being does cover nonsense, and is not bound by logic, then sure - it can create a rock so heavy that it cannot lift it. But then it can fulfill another logical nonsense - being an omnipotent being that cannot lift something. Everything about that being thus becomes meaningless, since logic cannot apply to it. Alternatively, we could return to the world of logic and say that omnipotence, and all things, require and are bound by logic.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

You really don't understand the idea of omnipotence. The whole point of it is that one can do anything, and therefore God should be able to perform such an act without limiting his power, or indeed, being required to surrender it.

and now were getting back to nonsense, can matter be a liquid and solid at a same time. no because they are exclusive from each other.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

But he can't retain his power after creating the stone so there is still something he can't do.
I don't see why you were complaining; I find this conversation interesting.

It's not the subject matter, it's the tone. This thread is to discuss Christianity in a courteous environment, not to get us all in one place for atheists to shit all over our beliefs, or for Atheists to try to prove Christianity wrong.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

You really don't understand the idea of omnipotence. The whole point of it is that one can do anything, and therefore God should be able to perform such an act without limiting his power, or indeed, being required to surrender it.

and now were getting back to nonsense, can matter be a liquid and solid at a same time. no because they are exclusive from each other.

What you need to realise is that the "nonsense" inherent in the question is indicative of the nonsensical nature of omnipotence as a whole.

[Dyakovo]

And if he can't eliminate the loss, then there is a limit to his power.

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

You still don't get what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence means that he/she/it can do anything. If there is even a single thing he/she/it cannot do, that means not omnipotent.

[Neo Rome Republic]

But he can't retain his power after creating the stone so there is still something he can't do.
I don't see why you were complaining; I find this conversation interesting.

It's not the subject matter, it's the tone. This thread is to discuss Christianity in a courteous environment, not to get us all in one place for atheists to shit all over our beliefs.

What do you mean ''shit all over''? I haven't said anything insulting about your beliefs? If there is a flaw found, wouldn't you, want to know about it or, at least have it addressed?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

No because this goes back to the fallacies in the framing of the paradigm, it's a physical framing of a nonphysical question.

Can an all powerful God limit his power. Yes he can, but such an act would be a willful surrender of his omnipotence. But until he creates a limit to his power, than he remains all powerful.

You still don't get what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence means that he/she/it can do anything. If there is even a single thing he/she/it cannot do, that means not omnipotent.

So then it begs the question that the concept of Omnipotence is flawed.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

But he can't retain his power after creating the stone so there is still something he can't do.
I don't see why you were complaining; I find this conversation interesting.

It's not the subject matter, it's the tone. This thread is to discuss Christianity in a courteous environment, not to get us all in one place for atheists to shit all over our beliefs, or for Atheists to try to prove Christianity wrong.

We're not "shitting over your beliefs", we're debating what we perceive to be a logical flaw in your argument.

So for pity's sake, drop that persecution complex. It isn't an argument.

[Neo Rome Republic]

You still don't get what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence means that he/she/it can do anything. If there is even a single thing he/she/it cannot do, that means not omnipotent.

So then it begs the question that the concept of Omnipotence is flawed.

Or maybe it just means that omnipotence is impossible.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It's not the subject matter, it's the tone. This thread is to discuss Christianity in a courteous environment, not to get us all in one place for atheists to shit all over our beliefs.

What do you mean ''shit all over''? I haven't said anything insulting about your beliefs? If there is a flaw found, wouldn't you, want to know about it or, at least have it addressed?

Flaws are one thing, but all of you have touted the tone Of Christianity is bullshit from the beginning, and this isn't the place for that.

[Dyakovo]

You really don't understand the idea of omnipotence. The whole point of it is that one can do anything, and therefore God should be able to perform such an act without limiting his power, or indeed, being required to surrender it.

and now were getting back to nonsense, can matter be a liquid and solid at a same time. no because they are exclusive from each other.

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

[Dyakovo]

You still don't get what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence means that he/she/it can do anything. If there is even a single thing he/she/it cannot do, that means not omnipotent.

So then it begs the question that the concept of Omnipotence is flawed.

Exactly. Meaning that an omnipotent being cannot exist.

[Neo Rome Republic]

You still don't get what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence means that he/she/it can do anything. If there is even a single thing he/she/it cannot do, that means not omnipotent.

What do you mean ''shit all over''? I haven't said anything insulting about your beliefs? If there is a flaw found, wouldn't you, want to know about it or, at least have it addressed?

Flaws are one thing, but all of you have touted the tone Of Christianity is bullshit from the beginning, and this isn't the place for that.

So because, I have a different view of Christianity means, I can't talk about it? Again, when did I insult your beliefs? I never said anything bad about them.

[Neo Rome Republic]

and now were getting back to nonsense, can matter be a liquid and solid at a same time. no because they are exclusive from each other.

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

[Dyakovo]

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

Yup, things can get really weird at extreme pressures and temperatures...

[Tarsonis Survivors]

and now were getting back to nonsense, can matter be a liquid and solid at a same time. no because they are exclusive from each other.

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

That's frickin' gnarly. But god can't be both all powerful, and not all powerful at the same time, the two are exclusive. God cannot surrender his omnipotence and retain it, they are exclusive.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

That's frickin' gnarly. But god can't be both all powerful, and not all powerful at the same time, the two are exclusive. God cannot surrender his omnipotence and retain it, they are exclusive.

If God can't surrender his omnipotence then, he is not omnipotent since, that is something he cannot do.
We are trying to explain to you omnipotence:to be able to do ANYYYYYYthing is impossible.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Flaws are one thing, but all of you have touted the tone Of Christianity is bullshit from the beginning, and this isn't the place for that.

So because, I have a different view of Christianity means, I can't talk about it? Again, when did I insult your beliefs? I never said anything bad about them.

You've argued from the beginning that God does not exist. It's fine if you believe that, but this isn't the place to discuss it.

[Dyakovo]

Yes, it can. See: superglass.

That's frickin' gnarly. But god can't be both all powerful, and not all powerful at the same time, the two are exclusive. God cannot surrender his omnipotence and retain it, they are exclusive.

Exactly.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

That's frickin' gnarly. But god can't be both all powerful, and not all powerful at the same time, the two are exclusive. God cannot surrender his omnipotence and retain it, they are exclusive.

If God can't surrender his omnipotence then, he is not omnipotent since, that is something he cannot do.
We are trying to explain to you omnipotence:to be able to do ANYYYYYYthing is impossible.

I'll concede that the Christian view that God can do ANNYYYTHINGG... isn't wrong per se, just simplistic.

[Neo Rome Republic]

So because, I have a different view of Christianity means, I can't talk about it? Again, when did I insult your beliefs? I never said anything bad about them.

You've argued from the beginning that God does not exist. It's fine if you believe that, but this isn't the place to discuss it.

We are discussing one supposed trait of God not his existence as a whole.