NationStates

I hear quite a few people here in NationStates General complaining about how people hate their country, especially, it must be said, Americans. More recently I've also seen threads about how people apparently hate, say, the Russians or the Chinese and how unfair it is. But the country that seems to get by far the most hatred from everyone else- ranging from well-meaning banter to genuine xenophobic sentiment- is the United Kingdom, and especially its largest component nation, England.

It's been my observation that behind the many, many threads here on NationStates advocating the independance of Scotland and/or Wales, or annexation by Argentina/the Republic of Ireland/Spain of the Falklands/Northern Ireland/Gibraltar, the genuine driving sentiment is some irrational hatred of the English. It's a cliche that everyone hates England- Scots hate England, the Irish hate England, the Welsh hate England, the French, Germans and Americans all hate England. I could go on. For most people, it's old national rivalries that have simmered down to good-natured ribbing, but what is scary is the number of people who seem to actually have a personal vendetta against England- usually thinly veiled beneath some holier-than-thou "anti-imperialist" message about English "oppression" of [Insert Nationality Here].

It's slightly disheartening when one sees various people of various political ideologies and nationalities coming together with the express purpose of basically ganging up on your own country. It does sometimes feel like England is the single most hated nation on Earth. So the questions I pose to NSG are, do you think England gets treated unfairly, here on NationStates and/or in the wider world? Do you possess anti-English sentiments yourself, and if so, why?

Eh, I see it on occasion, but I don't think it is anything to be especially worried about.

Oftentimes its kiddies who don't really know all that much and they'll grow out of it after a while.

It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.

Tagmatium wrote:Eh, I see it on occasion, but I don't think it is anything to be especially worried about.

Oftentimes its kiddies who don't really know all that much and they'll grow out of it after a while.

Eventually they realize it's America they should hate.

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.

I can see the Argentinians doing it, but that's not really surprising - it's useful for them to do it in order to fuel their own propaganda.

And it does depend on what part of the Scottish independence bit you're looking at.

Tagmatium wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.

I can see the Argentinians doing it, but that's not really surprising - it's useful for them to do it in order to fuel their own propaganda.

And it does depend on what part of the Scottish independence bit you're looking at.

Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.

Most of it justified.

Hypparchia wrote:Most of it justified.

Justify any of it.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Hypparchia wrote:Most of it justified.

Justify any of it.

Hang the English for the sins of their fathers.

I honestly believe the British empire which was the greatest thing we created is the cause of this.

The IASM wrote:I honestly believe the British empire which was the greatest thing we created is the cause of this.

The British have consistently been discriminated against by various groups.
All groups have suffered discrimination.
The racists do not need a reason. They need an excuse.

To be honest I haven't heard a lot of it.

Then again we do live right next to it. Better not piss off the neighbours across the Channel.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.

Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.

Morrdh wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.

Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.

That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Morrdh wrote:Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.

That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

Tagmatium wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Tagmatium wrote:Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.

Don't worry...even the English hate the English...hence all our homes being castles...

I am only Anglophobic when the Ashes come round. Otherwise I am positively Anglophilic.

Tagmatium wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

No, keep calm and listen to Professor Elemental.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Tagmatium wrote:Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

Which, all told, is probably a better idea.

Although you have foiled my plan to dispel my crushing loneliness.

But we move onto the uncomfortable territory of whether one can say that "English" is a race, which is why a lot of it can happen.

It's just jealousy.

Esternial wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.

I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Esternial wrote:And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.

I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.

So would you be racist for recognising that "English" is a category - or are nationalities exempt?

Tagmatium wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.

So would you be racist for recognising that "English" is a category - or are nationalities exempt?

Being that it describes an actual thing, i'd say they are exempt.
I'd add to my definition a few caveats such as holding different nationalities to different standards, assigning to one nationality characteristics INHERENT in the nationality unless this is actually required by their laws, are all racist acts.
Holding different nationalities to different standards pretty much sums up racism.
"You are being imperialist by X."
/repeat the same action as they are
"You are being imperialist by doing Y."