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Anglophobia

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you think anglophobic sentiments are worryingly commonplace?

Yes, and I'm English
52
14%
Yes, and I'm not English
68
18%
No, I'm English and I think we deserve it
13
3%
No, I'm not English and I think you deserve it
50
13%
No, I'm English and I don't see any anglophobic sentiment
40
11%
No, I'm not English and I don't see any anglophobic sentiment
90
24%
Mmmmm, sprouts...
66
17%
 
Total votes : 379

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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
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Anglophobia

Postby Old Tyrannia » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:46 am

I hear quite a few people here in NationStates General complaining about how people hate their country, especially, it must be said, Americans. More recently I've also seen threads about how people apparently hate, say, the Russians or the Chinese and how unfair it is. But the country that seems to get by far the most hatred from everyone else- ranging from well-meaning banter to genuine xenophobic sentiment- is the United Kingdom, and especially its largest component nation, England.

It's been my observation that behind the many, many threads here on NationStates advocating the independance of Scotland and/or Wales, or annexation by Argentina/the Republic of Ireland/Spain of the Falklands/Northern Ireland/Gibraltar, the genuine driving sentiment is some irrational hatred of the English. It's a cliche that everyone hates England- Scots hate England, the Irish hate England, the Welsh hate England, the French, Germans and Americans all hate England. I could go on. For most people, it's old national rivalries that have simmered down to good-natured ribbing, but what is scary is the number of people who seem to actually have a personal vendetta against England- usually thinly veiled beneath some holier-than-thou "anti-imperialist" message about English "oppression" of [Insert Nationality Here].

It's slightly disheartening when one sees various people of various political ideologies and nationalities coming together with the express purpose of basically ganging up on your own country. It does sometimes feel like England is the single most hated nation on Earth. So the questions I pose to NSG are, do you think England gets treated unfairly, here on NationStates and/or in the wider world? Do you possess anti-English sentiments yourself, and if so, why?
"Classicist in literature, royalist in politics, and Anglo-Catholic in religion" (T.S. Eliot). Still, unaccountably, a NationStates Moderator.
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Tagmatium
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:52 am

Eh, I see it on occasion, but I don't think it is anything to be especially worried about.

Oftentimes its kiddies who don't really know all that much and they'll grow out of it after a while.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 am

It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Esternial
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:54 am

Tagmatium wrote:Eh, I see it on occasion, but I don't think it is anything to be especially worried about.

Oftentimes its kiddies who don't really know all that much and they'll grow out of it after a while.

Eventually they realize it's America they should hate.

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Tagmatium
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:55 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.

I can see the Argentinians doing it, but that's not really surprising - it's useful for them to do it in order to fuel their own propaganda.

And it does depend on what part of the Scottish independence bit you're looking at.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:56 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:It's worryingly common.
The government of argentina isn't considered abhorrent for regular anglophobic statements.
Scottish independence has it's engine in anglophobia.
Theres plenty of it around.

I think the more worrying thing is that it's seen as acceptable.

I can see the Argentinians doing it, but that's not really surprising - it's useful for them to do it in order to fuel their own propaganda.

And it does depend on what part of the Scottish independence bit you're looking at.


Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Hypparchia
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Postby Hypparchia » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:01 am

Most of it justified.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 am

Hypparchia wrote:Most of it justified.


Justify any of it.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Tagmatium
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Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Hypparchia wrote:Most of it justified.

Justify any of it.

Hang the English for the sins of their fathers.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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The IASM
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Founded: Jan 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The IASM » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 am

I honestly believe the British empire which was the greatest thing we created is the cause of this.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:04 am

The IASM wrote:I honestly believe the British empire which was the greatest thing we created is the cause of this.


The British have consistently been discriminated against by various groups.
All groups have suffered discrimination.
The racists do not need a reason. They need an excuse.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Esternial
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54394
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:04 am

To be honest I haven't heard a lot of it.

Then again we do live right next to it. Better not piss off the neighbours across the Channel.

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Morrdh
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Postby Morrdh » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:04 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.


Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:05 am

Morrdh wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Theres also the Irish government and a lot of their groups who regularly engage in it.


Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.


That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Tagmatium
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Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:06 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Morrdh wrote:Arguably less so than during de Valera's time.

Me personally? I just fall back on the old British tradition of a Stiff Upper Lip and politely ignore it all, knowing that I can easily picked just as many faults (if not more so) with the person's own country.

That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:08 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?


Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Esternial
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Posts: 54394
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:09 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?


Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:10 am

Don't worry...even the English hate the English...hence all our homes being castles...
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Chelta
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Ex-Nation

Postby Chelta » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:10 am

I am only Anglophobic when the Ashes come round. Otherwise I am positively Anglophilic.


Vuzghulia wrote:An uncivilized nation ... institutions do not meet civilized standards ... barely fit to be called a nation ... the people's beer smells like hobo-urine, their sports are silly and feminine ... your music is ridiculed ... nobody takes your politicians seriously ... it would be a public service if someone invaded and taught your people civilized ways.

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Morrdh
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Morrdh » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:10 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:That it is subtler and more insidious does not address that it exists.

Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?


No, keep calm and listen to Professor Elemental.
Irish/Celtic Themed Nation - Factbook

In your Uplink, hijacking your guard band.

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Tagmatium
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Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:Well, what do you suggest we do?

Hug-an-Englishman Day?

Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

Which, all told, is probably a better idea.

Although you have foiled my plan to dispel my crushing loneliness.

But we move onto the uncomfortable territory of whether one can say that "English" is a race, which is why a lot of it can happen.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Elan Valleys
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Ex-Nation

Postby Elan Valleys » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 am

It's just jealousy.
I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished for ever.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 am

Esternial wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Cease toleration of racists and sectarians and call them out at any and every opportunity, regardless of target, even if that's just "you are being racist."
Remind people who fail to do this that they are passive racists.

And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.


I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Tagmatium
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Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:13 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Esternial wrote:And then enter a discussion about what a racist is.

I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.

So would you be racist for recognising that "English" is a category - or are nationalities exempt?
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58536
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:15 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'd argue that anyone who recognizes race or ethnicity as a legitimate category are racists.

So would you be racist for recognising that "English" is a category - or are nationalities exempt?


Being that it describes an actual thing, i'd say they are exempt.
I'd add to my definition a few caveats such as holding different nationalities to different standards, assigning to one nationality characteristics INHERENT in the nationality unless this is actually required by their laws, are all racist acts.
Holding different nationalities to different standards pretty much sums up racism.
"You are being imperialist by X."
/repeat the same action as they are
"You are being imperialist by doing Y."
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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