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by Chinese Regions » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:51 pm
by Stovokor » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:24 pm
Chinese Regions wrote:People can't be genetically modified if they are alive, they still have to an embryo, I think? Until we find safer ways then using radiation blasts, mechanisation is the best choice.
by IshCong » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:14 pm
The USOT wrote:Arkinesia wrote:The inevitable problem will be genetic discrimination.
I don't think anyone wants to wish genetic discrimination on people.
But seriously, it's an inescapable future reality with genetic enhancements. We are a naturally discriminatory race, and there's no genetic switch that flips on or off to discrimination.
I think the main issue would be the transatory period, the part in which genetic manipulation is not something available to the masses. I can envision a point where if it was cheaply available it would be akin to discrimination with clothes. Of course you would still have a few nudists (or non augmented individuals) around but they would be a very minority fringe group.
by Renegade Babylonian Kings » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:30 pm
IshCong wrote:
Unfettered anything is usually a bad idea. =T
by The Mizarian Empire » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:50 pm
by Renegade Babylonian Kings » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:54 pm
The Mizarian Empire wrote:I'm Pro-transhumanism. I admit and agree that the human body does have its faults, however as i've already stated in another thread about this subject, one must be careful. The concept of improving upon the human mind and body is a risky concept and with it comes both major and subtle consequences that must be considered.
When I think of Transhumanism I (typically) think of major re-designing of the human body. By today's standards such alterations exist in the form of plastic surgery (which primarily is for cosmetic/aesthetic purposes only) however what we're suggesting with this line of thought is so SO much more in depth. When someone gets a breast implant or similar such procedures done, 2 things are common: Mocking or Gawking. Mocking in the sense that "Oh har har, XXXXX feels so insecure about themselves that he/she had to get a bigger YYYYY". Gawking in the sense of "Whooooaaa, thats sexy/impressive", nothing more, nothing less.
Transhumanism has the potential to not only completely eliminate this seemingly simple idea or concept from society, but to completely change it's opinion of major alterations to the human body. Religious organizations will probably be all kinds of against this, what with the "Sanctity of the human body" being another thing I often hear such spiritual individuals screaming about in these regards. It may come to a point where its even normal to have such enhancements to such a point that those without them are considered outcasts or undesirables. Without even stopping to consider it this line of thought opens up a whole new train of potential hate-crimes.
Transhumanism has the ability to completely change cultures across the earth as new ideas/inventions become commonplace, take for example the Internet. Society has changed almost completely in the past couple years with wide-spread common use of the internet. Anyone with an internet connection now has all the information he or she desires at the (metaphorical and literal) push of a button. But with such power comes great liability. While much of the information at our disposal can be used for good,wholesome recreational purposes, other parts of it can (and are) used for acts of malice or violence.
With every great power comes a great responsibility, until we can truly stop and consider the long-term effects this could have on society, I say we need to tread incredibly careful in this new territory.
by Ifreann » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:57 pm
Renegade Babylonian Kings wrote:The Mizarian Empire wrote:I'm Pro-transhumanism. I admit and agree that the human body does have its faults, however as i've already stated in another thread about this subject, one must be careful. The concept of improving upon the human mind and body is a risky concept and with it comes both major and subtle consequences that must be considered.
When I think of Transhumanism I (typically) think of major re-designing of the human body. By today's standards such alterations exist in the form of plastic surgery (which primarily is for cosmetic/aesthetic purposes only) however what we're suggesting with this line of thought is so SO much more in depth. When someone gets a breast implant or similar such procedures done, 2 things are common: Mocking or Gawking. Mocking in the sense that "Oh har har, XXXXX feels so insecure about themselves that he/she had to get a bigger YYYYY". Gawking in the sense of "Whooooaaa, thats sexy/impressive", nothing more, nothing less.
Transhumanism has the potential to not only completely eliminate this seemingly simple idea or concept from society, but to completely change it's opinion of major alterations to the human body. Religious organizations will probably be all kinds of against this, what with the "Sanctity of the human body" being another thing I often hear such spiritual individuals screaming about in these regards. It may come to a point where its even normal to have such enhancements to such a point that those without them are considered outcasts or undesirables. Without even stopping to consider it this line of thought opens up a whole new train of potential hate-crimes.
Transhumanism has the ability to completely change cultures across the earth as new ideas/inventions become commonplace, take for example the Internet. Society has changed almost completely in the past couple years with wide-spread common use of the internet. Anyone with an internet connection now has all the information he or she desires at the (metaphorical and literal) push of a button. But with such power comes great liability. While much of the information at our disposal can be used for good,wholesome recreational purposes, other parts of it can (and are) used for acts of malice or violence.
With every great power comes a great responsibility, until we can truly stop and consider the long-term effects this could have on society, I say we need to tread incredibly careful in this new territory.
I take umbrage at how completely reasonable this entire statement is.
You have upstaged me in my own thread.
If you are male, I question openly your sexuality, unless your cultural is sufficiently advanced so as not to bothered by that. If you are female, I shall wish to rampant genies that you be taken as a slave or, if permitted in your culture, sold into slavery by your father, and then you are sold to a bootleg Cirque Du Soleil crew of Chinese gypsy traveling short-con operators who are also the sole remaining descendants of an ancient order of monks and their preferred street women who knew a powerful and ancient style of Kung Fu that lets you punch through stainless steel appliances and say soothing yet contemplative things.
by IshCong » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:52 pm
The Mizarian Empire wrote:I'm Pro-transhumanism. I admit and agree that the human body does have its faults, however as i've already stated in another thread about this subject, one must be careful. The concept of improving upon the human mind and body is a risky concept and with it comes both major and subtle consequences that must be considered.
When I think of Transhumanism I (typically) think of major re-designing of the human body. By today's standards such alterations exist in the form of plastic surgery (which primarily is for cosmetic/aesthetic purposes only) however what we're suggesting with this line of thought is so SO much more in depth. When someone gets a breast implant or similar such procedures done, 2 things are common: Mocking or Gawking. Mocking in the sense that "Oh har har, XXXXX feels so insecure about themselves that he/she had to get a bigger YYYYY". Gawking in the sense of "Whooooaaa, thats sexy/impressive", nothing more, nothing less.
Transhumanism has the potential to not only completely eliminate this seemingly simple idea or concept from society, but to completely change it's opinion of major alterations to the human body. Religious organizations will probably be all kinds of against this, what with the "Sanctity of the human body" being another thing I often hear such spiritual individuals screaming about in these regards. It may come to a point where its even normal to have such enhancements to such a point that those without them are considered outcasts or undesirables. Without even stopping to consider it this line of thought opens up a whole new train of potential hate-crimes.
Transhumanism has the ability to completely change cultures across the earth as new ideas/inventions become commonplace, take for example the Internet. Society has changed almost completely in the past couple years with wide-spread common use of the internet. Anyone with an internet connection now has all the information he or she desires at the (metaphorical and literal) push of a button. But with such power comes great liability. While much of the information at our disposal can be used for good,wholesome recreational purposes, other parts of it can (and are) used for acts of malice or violence.
With every great power comes a great responsibility, until we can truly stop and consider the long-term effects this could have on society, I say we need to tread incredibly careful in this new territory.
by The Emerald Legion » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:19 pm
New Sapienta wrote:Renegade Babylonian Kings wrote:Not necessarily. In some ways, they are very hostile to nature, and in fact most principally concern themselves at any given time with the ideological schism of rabbit season versus duck season.
I'm quite fascinated by these poll results. Not dismayed at all, but surprised. There is more support for transhumanism (at least we left it fairly openly defined and every vote might be advocating something quite different) than I had expected.
You mean like the poster here who is a biophobe and hates nature?
Yeah I don't like that very much either.
by Trotskylvania » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:53 pm
Chinese Regions wrote:People can't be genetically modified if they are alive, they still have to an embryo, I think? Until we find safer ways then using radiation blasts, mechanisation is the best choice.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by Bralia » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:21 pm
Faolinn wrote:Bralia wrote:You know, I find it astonishing that some of the people who claim to be liberals in this thread are advocating stagnancy. Transhumanism is the advancement of human kind. The transcendence of human-kind. The sort of progressive change that a lot of liberals I know strive for. Breaking down traditional cultural values to be more inclusive of individuals who aren't quite the same as the majority. People that advocate for the protection of the environment and the advancement of science. And yet, when the idea of transhumanism is proposed, you say we should stick with the "old" ways. It boggles my mind . . .
We do not advocate for stagnation.We merely offer a more sane and balanced path of human evolution.If humanity is no longer defined by our bodies you claim, shouldn't we really be more intensely focused on changing the social climate rather than our bodies?This idea that technology is the only way perplexes me.If we are trying to value more immaterial things, wouldn't it make more sense to just let people be as they are born and to pay less mind to how we are physically. Cultures do not need to be entirely obliterated to be improved. Women have made significant strides all over the world in cultures that are patriarchal and they are becoming less so.Yet they have not stopped celebrating traditional festivals or practicing traditional religions. I've encountered a number of Christian and Muslim feminists. In America most people are still Christian, yet they increasingly show acceptance for homosexuals without abandoning faith. If we do not need to totally abandon our cultures and our ways of life to become better, why do we need to abandon flesh to become better. Racism is dying in many places though ethnicity has not been eliminated. I may have issues with my species, but I like who I am, and my form is my icon to the world.It is uniquely mine.I like to think that because I am being of flesh I have become stronger, that I have learned the true meaning of strength. My flesh has taught me it is not the source of my strength and I will bare it as a reminder of this. It tests me and those test have taught me quite a bit, I used to be like you.I used to believe much of what you did when I was a child, but no more. I have grown into something more. Something that machines did not make me. We believe in the right to find one's own path to transendence. In not toying around with things callously, in the diversity of solutions, in our own potential, that we do not have to give up on being as we are to improve. We believe that people are more than things you can describe in clinical terms and that understanding humanity does not come from dissecting it or in our flesh, but in our minds, in our inner essence. Whether they believe in a soul like I do or not, this becomes a sort of soul to us.
I know what you will say to this, that I'm just going on about ideals, to be quite frank I find that ignorant, and hilarious.You will do the same thing. You will try to mask the same tactic as something else when you use it.
by Genivaria » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:26 am
The Emerald Legion wrote:New Sapienta wrote:You mean like the poster here who is a biophobe and hates nature?
Yeah I don't like that very much either.
*raises head* You called?
But to answer the point being made, I personally find the two stances connected, but at the same time can see how they could be disconnected quite easily were it not for my own, admittedly abnormal, views.
Spoiler for those who feel like skipping me ranting on about my lunacy.Transhumanism, and my desire for the extermination of organic life, are connected to me simply because they are both an expression of embracing the perfect order of the universe, when you stop believing fairie tales. When you stop worshipping the sacred mysteries of life, you realize that organic life holds no inherent value beyond what it can contribute. Furthermore, living things quite often get in the way, and spready quickly from small starting points. So the obvious solution is to wipe them all out save those that are useful, which are preserved in zoo's. Transhumanism is the cessation of worshiping the sacred mystery of the human body, therefore it becomes nothing but a machine you own, to do with as you will. Making improvements is the logical choice.
Of course, there may be no small amount of personal distaste for organic things influencing my reasoning here...
by Multiflow » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:50 am
by The USOT » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:14 am
Thats the spirit! Now lets add a disk drive to my face!IshCong wrote:The Mizarian Empire wrote:I'm Pro-transhumanism. I admit and agree that the human body does have its faults, however as i've already stated in another thread about this subject, one must be careful. The concept of improving upon the human mind and body is a risky concept and with it comes both major and subtle consequences that must be considered.
When I think of Transhumanism I (typically) think of major re-designing of the human body. By today's standards such alterations exist in the form of plastic surgery (which primarily is for cosmetic/aesthetic purposes only) however what we're suggesting with this line of thought is so SO much more in depth. When someone gets a breast implant or similar such procedures done, 2 things are common: Mocking or Gawking. Mocking in the sense that "Oh har har, XXXXX feels so insecure about themselves that he/she had to get a bigger YYYYY". Gawking in the sense of "Whooooaaa, thats sexy/impressive", nothing more, nothing less.
Transhumanism has the potential to not only completely eliminate this seemingly simple idea or concept from society, but to completely change it's opinion of major alterations to the human body. Religious organizations will probably be all kinds of against this, what with the "Sanctity of the human body" being another thing I often hear such spiritual individuals screaming about in these regards. It may come to a point where its even normal to have such enhancements to such a point that those without them are considered outcasts or undesirables. Without even stopping to consider it this line of thought opens up a whole new train of potential hate-crimes.
Transhumanism has the ability to completely change cultures across the earth as new ideas/inventions become commonplace, take for example the Internet. Society has changed almost completely in the past couple years with wide-spread common use of the internet. Anyone with an internet connection now has all the information he or she desires at the (metaphorical and literal) push of a button. But with such power comes great liability. While much of the information at our disposal can be used for good,wholesome recreational purposes, other parts of it can (and are) used for acts of malice or violence.
With every great power comes a great responsibility, until we can truly stop and consider the long-term effects this could have on society, I say we need to tread incredibly careful in this new territory.
No, no, no, you're doing this all wrong. You're in favor of trans-humanism. You aren't allowed to ever think about the possible consequences of trans-humanism or the ethical and legal implications of what you're proposing. You're only allowed to rush into this blindly like some rabid fanatic.
by Samuraikoku » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:21 am
by Forster Keys » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:22 am
by Ostroeuropa » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:41 am
In the Penn experiment, the researchers removed certain types of white blood cells that the body uses to fight disease from the patients. Using a modified, harmless version of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, they inserted a series of genes into the white blood cells. These were designed to make to cells target and kill the cancer cells. After growing a large batch of the genetically engineered white blood cells, the doctors injected them back into the patients.
by The Emerald Legion » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:42 pm
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.
by Phocidaea » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:30 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:The fact is, with genetic engineering we can cure ANY DISEASE OR VIRUS that we understand the structure of.
The HIV virus performs an invaluable service to humanity in this purpose. There may one day be a reality where HIV is responsible for saving more human lives than it has ever taken.
Humanity borgs around yet again. We looked at the auroch and assimilated it, we looked at the wolf, and assimilated it. Now HIV is going to be our new pet, if only the moral busybodies would stop objecting to it.
"You shall be domesticated" is our warcry dammit, let humans act human and stop objecting to human nature.
by Ostroeuropa » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:37 pm
Phocidaea wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:The fact is, with genetic engineering we can cure ANY DISEASE OR VIRUS that we understand the structure of.
The HIV virus performs an invaluable service to humanity in this purpose. There may one day be a reality where HIV is responsible for saving more human lives than it has ever taken.
Humanity borgs around yet again. We looked at the auroch and assimilated it, we looked at the wolf, and assimilated it. Now HIV is going to be our new pet, if only the moral busybodies would stop objecting to it.
"You shall be domesticated" is our warcry dammit, let humans act human and stop objecting to human nature.
How is this related to transhumanism? You're saying it's human nature to assimilate other things... but transhumanism is basically about assimilating people.
by IshCong » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:38 pm
Phocidaea wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:The fact is, with genetic engineering we can cure ANY DISEASE OR VIRUS that we understand the structure of.
The HIV virus performs an invaluable service to humanity in this purpose. There may one day be a reality where HIV is responsible for saving more human lives than it has ever taken.
Humanity borgs around yet again. We looked at the auroch and assimilated it, we looked at the wolf, and assimilated it. Now HIV is going to be our new pet, if only the moral busybodies would stop objecting to it.
"You shall be domesticated" is our warcry dammit, let humans act human and stop objecting to human nature.
How is this related to transhumanism? You're saying it's human nature to assimilate other things... but transhumanism is basically about assimilating people.
by Sociobiology » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:39 pm
by Phocidaea » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:41 pm
IshCong wrote:Phocidaea wrote:
How is this related to transhumanism? You're saying it's human nature to assimilate other things... but transhumanism is basically about assimilating people.
No, it's not. It is making use of technology to improve the Human condition. It is not about assimilating people and I have no idea what would make you say that, aside from perhaps strawmanning.
by IshCong » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:55 pm
Phocidaea wrote:IshCong wrote:
No, it's not. It is making use of technology to improve the Human condition. It is not about assimilating people and I have no idea what would make you say that, aside from perhaps strawmanning.
If that's the definition, then why isn't it just "humanism"? The "trans" implies you are trying to move past humanity to something else.
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