NRA - Put Armed Good Guys In All Schools

[Liriena]

Entirely reasonable.

High-capacity MAGAZINES (GodDAMNIT NYT they are MAGAZINE not clips, this is horseshit crap that SOMEONE on staff should have taught you about at some point!) rarely matter in mass shooting events as (there's a study on this somewhere I'll look) the rate of fire of the perpetrator never rises above what would be possible with a bolt action rifle. Magazine capacity limits really just hit people who go to the range with their weapons the most because they have to spend time reloading them. A potential mass murderer will buy a dozen, load them up, and change them out. It's what happened at Columbine (though high-cap magazines were also used there as well).

You just made one hell of a case for banning ALL firearms.

[Tmutarakhan]

Counterexample

[Gauthier]

Counterexample

Ow.

[Liriena]

Counterexample

Ok...that's gonna leave a mark.

[Saiwania]

This might just be the perfect opportunity for the Republicans to maybe cause another wave election, they should campaign on preserving gun rights as the primary goal for their platform for 2014. If enough people care about being able to buy the firearms that they want, they will get voted in. But if not- the gun control advocates get to have their wish.

[Abatael]

You have never said your beliefs, that's why I'm asking you what they are!

Except your NOT asking, your strawmanning.

Oh, so this, "But, out of curiosity, what system do you want concerning gun policy?" and this, "And answer my question please," isn't asking?

[Big Jim P]

High-capacity MAGAZINES (GodDAMNIT NYT they are MAGAZINE not clips, this is horseshit crap that SOMEONE on staff should have taught you about at some point!) rarely matter in mass shooting events as (there's a study on this somewhere I'll look) the rate of fire of the perpetrator never rises above what would be possible with a bolt action rifle. Magazine capacity limits really just hit people who go to the range with their weapons the most because they have to spend time reloading them. A potential mass murderer will buy a dozen, load them up, and change them out. It's what happened at Columbine (though high-cap magazines were also used there as well).

You just made one hell of a case for banning ALL firearms.

Which hits the wall of banning all firearms not causing them to magically disappear.

[Genivaria]

Counterexample

Not sure if low blow...

[Occupied Deutschland]

Counterexample

Problem, military personnel on base are required to turn in their firearms.

[Big Jim P]

Counterexample

Ok...that's gonna leave a mark.

Not really, since in the military, access to firearms on base is restricted beyond gun-control freaks wettest dreams.

[Liriena]

You just made one hell of a case for banning ALL firearms.

Which hits the wall of banning all firearms not causing them to magically disappear.

A competent enough police force should be able to manage getting rid of firearms that are not surrendered to the state or that are bought and sold through the black market.

Sure, it'd be a lot of work.

[Big Jim P]

Which hits the wall of banning all firearms not causing them to magically disappear.

A competent enough police force should be able to manage getting rid of firearms that are not surrendered to the state or that are bought and sold through the black market.

Sure, it'd be a lot of work.

Tell that to the Irish.

[Liriena]

A competent enough police force should be able to manage getting rid of firearms that are not surrendered to the state or that are bought and sold through the black market.

Sure, it'd be a lot of work.

Tell that to the Irish.

Again, no one says it would be easy, especially in the short term.

[Genivaria]

A competent enough police force should be able to manage getting rid of firearms that are not surrendered to the state or that are bought and sold through the black market.

Sure, it'd be a lot of work.

Tell that to the Irish.

COMPETENT police force.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

A competent enough police force should be able to manage getting rid of firearms that are not surrendered to the state or that are bought and sold through the black market.

Sure, it'd be a lot of work.

Tell that to the Irish.

In fairness the word 'competent' was thrown around

[Galloism]

You just made one hell of a case for banning ALL firearms.

Which hits the wall of banning all firearms not causing them to magically disappear.

Not to mention banning all firearms has lots of unintended other effects.

[Big Jim P]

Tell that to the Irish.

COMPETENT police force.

And a populace willing to be subjugated.

[Big Jim P]

Which hits the wall of banning all firearms not causing them to magically disappear.

Not to mention banning all firearms has lots of unintended other effects.

Knigings would go up for one.

I forget where I read this but someone said that if gangs could no longer get guns then the first drive-by spear-chucking would occur within hours.

[Liriena]

COMPETENT police force.

And a populace willing to be subjugated.

How is working alongside the state to make your country a tiny bit safer for all citizens "subjugation"?

[Galloism]

Not to mention banning all firearms has lots of unintended other effects.

Knigings would go up for one.

I forget where I read this but someone said that if gangs could no longer get guns then the first drive-by spear-chucking would occur within hours.

I was thinking personally how much more it will cost me to put healthy food on the table.

[Northern Dominus]

COMPETENT police force.

And a populace willing to be subjugated.

Oh yes, now we go into Cult of the Gun territory, specifically the part that says "This person disagrees with my personal views, therefore they're a Tyrant and I am legally entitled to shoot them per the 2nd Amendment"...or at least that's the justification behind it in the Cult of the Gun.

[Saiwania]

Oh yes, now we go into Cult of the Gun territory, specifically the part that says "This person disagrees with my personal views, therefore they're a Tyrant and I am legally entitled to shoot them per the 2nd Amendment"...or at least that's the justification behind it in the Cult of the Gun.

It is because of a few issues that I care too dearly about such as gun control, that I will never vote Democrat- no matter how many other redeeming qualities the rest of their platform may have.

[Zutroy]

Well, catching red flags like that would entail a background check, wouldn't it?

I've never had much objection to a background check beyond that fact that most criminals wouldn't have to undergo one to get their guns.

Well, you could fully fund law enforcement and social programs that tackle the root causes of these shootings in addition to background checks. I don't see the possibility of a law being broken as something that renders the law pointless, because that would defeat the purpose of all laws.

As an aside, I find it funny that this same fatalistic logic was employed in opposition to the "War On Terror" starting a decade ago, and the same people who are using it now against gun laws were labeling the people who were using it against the "War On Terror" traitors. Just a thought.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Well you're in luck OD, because the Plinkster comes in AR-15 pattern as well (1). So you get the military fetish without worrying about breaking firearms laws AND the adjustability as well. I think some enterprising person also made a Halo battle-rfile version as well so if you REALLY want to get fantasy trigger-time in.

And yes I throw the hummer in with the same sort of macho fantasy fetishism as i do people who absolutely have to have an AR-15 clone with at least 30 if not larger magazines and chambered in .223 Remington. It's as if they have to complete the fantasy that they never got to experience because they were too stupid and/or psychologically and behaviorally unfit for any military duty other than peeling potatoes. (2)

Finally, more time between shots can improve accuracy (3). A person has time to think, time to adjust, time to compensate, especially if the shot was a really wide miss.I've seen it before when training under-qualified personnel on the M4, time and again, even on semi-auto the less talented or less patient shooters would get just one sight element on point, fire, then repeat until the magazine went dry. I eventually resorted to finding and buying an early-generation Steyr Scout (in Washington State no less) in .223 Remington caliber and used that as a training tool. The fact that the other person had to cycle the bolt, meant they had time to slow down and adjust for the next shot, so when they qualified they did so with greater proficiency than simply plugging away with an M4.

1) I don't see one chambered in .223 on their website.
2) And THIS is exactly what I was referring to with my Hummer comment. Yes, there is some segment of people who own them for sheer "My dick is small but look at THIS!" bravado. But they (and vehicles like them people see as "overcompensating" vehicles) do have legitimate uses that get overshadowed by people's stereotype of their owners as overcompensating. For example, I own a 1-ton pickup that's had a 6-inch lift kit put on it and gigantic grill guards. I get shit every day for 'overcompensating'. But guess what? I have to tow multiple tons of material and tools between job sites in country that has serious issues with deer accidents. I have a legitimate use for that, but it gets overshadowed by "Lol theyz playin' at bein' macho men! What fags!". The same thing applies to the AR-15 or any other 'assault weapon' or such. Yes, a segment of the population owns them because "Dis' looks like da' military-shooter gun! PEW PEW!" but that's hardly the reason everyone owns them and having to put up with the stereotype gets aggravating.
3) Ah, I see what you're saying. *shrug* Don't see why I shouldn't be able to use one just because Joe Blow thinks he's Rambo.

[Big Jim P]

And a populace willing to be subjugated.

Oh yes, now we go into Cult of the Gun territory, specifically the part that says "This person disagrees with my personal views, therefore they're a Tyrant and I am legally entitled to shoot them per the 2nd Amendment"...or at least that's the justification behind it in the Cult of the Gun.

Or, "I can go about my business in peace, bothering no one".