NRA - Put Armed Good Guys In All Schools

[Bafuria]

I'm in favor of reasonable gun control laws.

An assault weapons ban isn't one of them.

I don't think I've ever advocated for an assault weapon ban.

I'm undecided on the assault weapon ban. I'm far more concerned with things like magazine capacity.

In the US, it's the same thing.

And like I said earlier, high capacity mags would still be legally available to anyone who wants them, only at a slightly higher price. Hardly an obstacle to someone who plans on blowing his brains out after he has finished his massacre.

[Mavorpen]

So no one?

No, I didn't make him up: here's his post, viewtopic.php?p=12159906#p12159906

And answer my question please.

So what does that have to do with me?

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not as much concerned with casualties so much as more mundane concerns, I think a security officer on school premises is a good idea for drugs, theft, etc.
If they have even a longshot of reducing casualties in a shootout, thats a bonus

[Constaniana]

I say we go one step further, and put Batman in every school. He's not the Hall monitor we need. But it's the one this school deserves, because our budget is too crappy to afford a good one.

[Choronzon]

Virginia Tech had police, and that did shitall to reduce casualties.

VT is a hell of alot bigger then most schools 2-5 police officers in a average size school should be reasonable.

You are totally missing the point. If armed police had any effect we'd have seen it at VT or NIU.

So, unless you think that these schools only have like 2-5 police officers*.....


* And I can assure you that NIU's police force is larger than the police force of the city it resides in.

[Abatael]

No, I didn't make him up: here's his post, viewtopic.php?p=12159906#p12159906

And answer my question please.

So what does that have to do with me?

They're your beliefs. You of all people would know what your own beliefs are. That's why I'm asking you.

[Vazdania]

I'm not as much concerned with casualties so much as more mundane concerns, I think a security officer on school premises is a good idea for drugs, theft, etc.
If they have even a longshot of reducing casualties in a shootout, thats a bonus

agreed entirely.

[Zutroy]

Your joking right? Hold old are you?

Background checks are fine...I suppose....the only people who shouldn't have guns are those who've committed a felony, the mentally unstable, the mentally handicapped, and that's about it...

Well, catching red flags like that would entail a background check, wouldn't it?

[Genivaria]

Your joking right? Hold old are you?

Background checks are fine...I suppose....the only people who shouldn't have guns are those who've committed a felony, the mentally unstable, the mentally handicapped, and that's about it...

Agreed. And Assault Weapon bans?

[Carsonalia]

There needs to be a 'Keep Calm and Carry On' attitude in America rather than 'Pour fuel on the fire' knee jerk reaction. It's like an extremist off.

[Choronzon]

I don't think I've ever advocated for an assault weapon ban.

I'm undecided on the assault weapon ban. I'm far more concerned with things like magazine capacity.

In the US, it's the same thing.

And like I said earlier, high capacity mags would still be legally available to anyone who wants them, only at a slightly higher price. Hardly an obstacle to someone who plans on blowing his brains out after he has finished his massacre.

Why are you assuming that I am advocating for a reinstitution of the exact same piece of legislation we've had prior?

[Mavorpen]

So what does that have to do with me?

They're your beliefs. You of all people would know what your own beliefs are. That's why I'm asking you.

Quote me saying that.

[Vazdania]

Background checks are fine...I suppose....the only people who shouldn't have guns are those who've committed a felony, the mentally unstable, the mentally handicapped, and that's about it...

Agreed. And Assault Weapon bans?

no to assault weapons ban.

[Big Jim P]

Background checks are fine...I suppose....the only people who shouldn't have guns are those who've committed a felony, the mentally unstable, the mentally handicapped, and that's about it...

Well, catching red flags like that would entail a background check, wouldn't it?

I've never had much objection to a background check beyond that fact that most criminals wouldn't have to undergo one to get their guns.

[Occupied Deutschland]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/us/po ... d=all&_r=0

the president signaled his support for new limits on high-capacity clips and assault weapons, as well as a desire to close regulatory loopholes affecting gun shows.

Entirely reasonable.

Only the last bit. "Assault weapons" have the same capability as a good number of non-"assault weapons" (unless it is referring to all semiautomatics). The only point they differ on is color and plastic versus wooden stock.

High-capacity MAGAZINES (GodDAMNIT NYT they are MAGAZINE not clips, this is horseshit crap that SOMEONE on staff should have taught you about at some point!) rarely matter in mass shooting events as (there's a study on this somewhere I'll look) the rate of fire of the perpetrator never rises above what would be possible with a bolt action rifle. Magazine capacity limits really just hit people who go to the range with their weapons the most because they have to spend time reloading them. A potential mass murderer will buy a dozen, load them up, and change them out. It's what happened at Columbine (though high-cap magazines were also used there as well).

[Genivaria]

Agreed. And Assault Weapon bans?

no to assault weapons ban.

Why not? Other then gunning down groups of people what possible reason could a Civilian need an automatic weapon?

[Choronzon]

no to assault weapons ban.

Why not? Other then gunning down groups of people what possible reason could a Civilian need an automatic weapon?

How else will Patrick Swayze save us from the red menace?

[Genivaria]

Entirely reasonable.

Only the last bit. "Assault weapons" have the same capability as a good number of non-"assault weapons" (unless it is referring to all semiautomatics). The only point they differ on is color and plastic versus wooden stock.

High-capacity MAGAZINES (GodDAMNIT NYT they are MAGAZINE not clips, this is horseshit crap that SOMEONE on staff should have taught you about at some point!) rarely matter in mass shooting events as (there's a study on this somewhere I'll look) the rate of fire of the perpetrator never rises above what would be possible with a bolt action rifle. Magazine capacity limits really just hit people who go to the range with their weapons the most because they have to spend time reloading them. A potential mass murderer will buy a dozen, load them up, and change them out. It's what happened at Columbine (though high-cap magazines were also used there as well).

Thank you for sharing this. Gives me something to think about.

[Liriena]

no to assault weapons ban.

Why not? Other then gunning down groups of people what possible reason could a Civilian need an automatic weapon?

You forget that many people in the US still fear the possibility of becoming the new Soviet Union...and "Red Dawn", with Mr. Chris "Sexy" Hemsworth, is in theaters.

[Saiwania]

Why not? Other then gunning down groups of people what possible reason could a Civilian need an automatic weapon?

They are not automatic, which have been severely limited for civilian ownership by the National Firearms Act.

[Abatael]

They're your beliefs. You of all people would know what your own beliefs are. That's why I'm asking you.

Quote me saying that.

You have never said your beliefs, that's why I'm asking you what they are!

[Big Jim P]

Entirely reasonable.

Only the last bit. "Assault weapons" have the same capability as a good number of non-"assault weapons" (unless it is referring to all semiautomatics). The only point they differ on is color and plastic versus wooden stock.

High-capacity MAGAZINES (GodDAMNIT NYT they are MAGAZINE not clips, this is horseshit crap that SOMEONE on staff should have taught you about at some point!) rarely matter in mass shooting events as (there's a study on this somewhere I'll look) the rate of fire of the perpetrator never rises above what would be possible with a bolt action rifle. Magazine capacity limits really just hit people who go to the range with their weapons the most because they have to spend time reloading them. A potential mass murderer will buy a dozen, load them up, and change them out. It's what happened at Columbine (though high-cap magazines were also used there as well).

I would have a heluuva lot more respect (read some) for gun-control advocates if they even SEEMED like they knew what they were talking about.

[Big Jim P]

Why not? Other then gunning down groups of people what possible reason could a Civilian need an automatic weapon?

They are not automatic.

Automatic weapons are very rarely used in crime.

[Genivaria]

Quote me saying that.

You have never said your beliefs, that's why I'm asking you what they are!

Except your NOT asking, your strawmanning.

[Northern Dominus]

Oh no, you'll have to use a 5 to 15 round magazine instead of a 30 round magazine. Whatever will you do (1)!....

Ooor you could buy a Mossberg Plinkster which is just as comfy as an AR-15 clone. Hell it even has a fun name, plinkster (2).

Or, even better, you could find a simple internal-magazine bolt-action or lever-action rifle and become a better shooter that way (3). I've never understood that, aside from the military fetish there's really no reason not to get a firearm where you have to work the action in order to reload and re-cock (4). It's simpler, less prone to breakage, plus it's more gratifying in the way, feeling the parts do their thing (5).

1) Probably take out the pins in the restricted magazines so I don't have to fuck with loading the damned things up so often.
2) As fun as the name is, I don't want a Plinkster, I want 2 dollars an AR-15.
3) Having to work a bolt just to reload doesn't magically make my range time pay off more.
4) Aside from the military fetish there's no reason to own a Hummer either (trick statement, there is, this denigrating someone's choice of [x] just apparently makes people feel better about themselves or something).
5) So? The old car I own is simpler and less prone to breakage as well (and all that character-building from knowing how all the parts do their thing and being able to fix them myself), but for everyday driving a modern vehicle is much more convenient.

Well you're in luck OD, because the Plinkster comes in AR-15 pattern as well. So you get the military fetish without worrying about breaking firearms laws AND the adjustability as well. I think some enterprising person also made a Halo battle-rfile version as well so if you REALLY want to get fantasy trigger-time in.

And yes I throw the hummer in with the same sort of macho fantasy fetishism as i do people who absolutely have to have an AR-15 clone with at least 30 if not larger magazines and chambered in .223 Remington. It's as if they have to complete the fantasy that they never got to experience because they were too stupid and/or psychologically and behaviorally unfit for any military duty other than peeling potatoes.

Finally, more time between shots can improve accuracy. A person has time to think, time to adjust, time to compensate, especially if the shot was a really wide miss.I've seen it before when training under-qualified personnel on the M4, time and again, even on semi-auto the less talented or less patient shooters would get just one sight element on point, fire, then repeat until the magazine went dry. I eventually resorted to finding and buying an early-generation Steyr Scout (in Washington State no less) in .223 Remington caliber and used that as a training tool. The fact that the other person had to cycle the bolt, meant they had time to slow down and adjust for the next shot, so when they qualified they did so with greater proficiency than simply plugging away with an M4.