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American Catholics(both libreal and conservative) disobey...

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:49 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
..their church.

In the 2012 election, 51% of Americans Roman Catholics Voted for Pres. Obama. As you know, there is a debate that whenever or not should Catholic organizations be forced to buy health insurance that covers birth control, give benefits to homosexual couples, that Catholic Schools should be forced to follow “anti-bullying” laws. And ECT.

It is a fact that most American (Roman) Catholic women use birth control, that most American Catholics don’t believe in Transubstantiation, do not go to mass weekly, have premarital sex, masturbate( and don’t repent), and ECT and ECT.
I get it, most American Catholics disagree with almost everything that the Church teaches about anything. But that is not what I really want to talk about in this post. We all know that most American Catholics are progressive. We get that. But what is rarely talked about Conservative Catholic disagreeing with the Church, and yes, they are out there. But what I think what is more troubling ( and this is coming from a Conservative Catholic) is that they outwardly lie and claim that their own personal position is the Churches.
Most of these issues and debates are within the Church, so they don’t get much media attention and it very understandable that outsiders don’t care. But I think it is important to talk about.

Anyway, to start, most Conservative Catholic( i.e Rep. Paul Ryan) disagree with the Rerum Novarum, which is an encyclical issued by Pope Leo XIII on May 15, 1891. It was an open letter, passed to all Catholic bishops, that addressed the condition of the working classes. To make it simple, it supported the rights of labor to form unions, rejected communism and unrestricted capitalism. But why, then did Mr. Ryan look to Ayn Rand as a hero. Was he just ignorant or pick and choose what Church teaching to believe in.

Another issue, that I have included in a link. The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty. Period. The Church clearly states that if call yourself “pro-life”, you must oppose this evil practice. But again, many conservative Catholics choose to ignore this rule. Why? Please, if you a Catholic and you support government murder, which it is, murder. Explain yourself!
Conservative Catholics ignore the teachings of Second Vatican Council, and the Catholic Church says that if one calls themselves an observant

Catholic, they must observe and respect it. And may I add, that I attend a Latin Mass and a Novus Ordo three times a week.
So, in reality, both Conservative and Liberal Catholic disobey the Church.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKA__wjOp7s

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:56 pm
by Bombadil
I imagine every single religious person disobeys their church one way or another, even the Pope. In fact I doubt there's a truly consistent person on the planet regardless of ideology.

The only constant is that there's exceptions.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:58 pm
by Eirenia
FYI: My "Mother" aborted her first three pregnancies and I was her forth.


What on Earth did that have to do with the rest of the post?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:58 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Bombadil wrote:I imagine every single religious person disobeys their church one way or another, even the Pope. In fact I doubt there's a truly consistent person on the planet regardless of ideology.

The only constant is that there's exceptions.


But what I get pissed, is that people, manly the "conservative" Catholic disobey the Church, then lie and say that they don't

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:59 pm
by AiliailiA
EDIT: Supporting OP in wishing the thread never happened.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:59 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Eirenia wrote:
FYI: My "Mother" aborted her first three pregnancies and I was her forth.


What on Earth did that have to do with the rest of the post?


Many "Conservative" Catholic put that I am plant put by progressive Catholics. So,I guess you can call it a preemptive statement

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm
by Bombadil
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Bombadil wrote:I imagine every single religious person disobeys their church one way or another, even the Pope. In fact I doubt there's a truly consistent person on the planet regardless of ideology.

The only constant is that there's exceptions.


But what I get pissed, is that people, manly the "conservative" Catholic disobey the Church, then lie and say that they don't


I've always said we should bring back the Spanish Inquisition, no one would expect it.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm
by AiliailiA
EDIT: Supporting OP in wishing the thread never happened.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:01 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Ailiailia wrote:Catholic women seek abortions as the same rate as women generally. At a greater rate than self-described Protestants.


That is not the point of my most, but you right. Most American Catholics do disobey their Church, but please try to stay on topic.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:01 pm
by Eirenia
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Eirenia wrote:
What on Earth did that have to do with the rest of the post?


Many "Conservative" Catholic put that I am plant put by progressive Catholics. So,I guess you can call it a preemptive statement


I...don't know what that has to do with abortion?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:03 pm
by AiliailiA
EDIT: Supporting OP in wishing the thread never happened.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:03 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Ailiailia wrote:
Eirenia wrote:
What on Earth did that have to do with the rest of the post?


I guess it's pre-emptive against the old "how would you like it if you'd been aborted" play.


Well, I was almost aborted, that is a fact. My mother is a drug addicted and mentally ill(and she still is). She took heavy drugs when I was her "fetus"(as I hypothesize what you would call it.) She was so mentally ill that she attacked my Grandmother(her mother) right in-front of me when I was seven years old.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:04 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Ailiailia wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Many "Conservative" Catholic put that I am plant put by progressive Catholics. So,I guess you can call it a preemptive statement


Good guess on my part. If you don't have 3 or more younger siblings, you wouldn't have been born without those abortions. Nice trick.


I think you trying to get off topic, and I am not going to play into it. Have a nice day.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:05 pm
by Norstal
Bombadil wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
But what I get pissed, is that people, manly the "conservative" Catholic disobey the Church, then lie and say that they don't


I've always said we should bring back the Spanish Inquisition, no one would expect it.

Clearly the freedom of thought is a hard concept for some people to grasp. OP must be asking, "how can these people have free will on their own?"

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:06 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Norstal wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I've always said we should bring back the Spanish Inquisition, no one would expect it.

Clearly the freedom of thought is a hard concept for some people to grasp. OP must be asking, "how can these people have free will on their own?"


No, I am asking that why can someone say they agree with everything the Church teaches and they don't.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:08 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
I guess it's pre-emptive against the old "how would you like it if you'd been aborted" play.


Well, I was almost aborted, that is a fact. My mother is a drug addicted and mentally ill(and she still is). She took heavy drugs when I was her "fetus"(as I hypothesize what you would call it.) She was so mentally ill that she attacked my Grandmother(her mother) right in-front of me.


I would play the world's smallest violin for you, but I just can't be arsed.

So Catholics in the US disobey their Church? Big deal. You need to think about what best suits you (even if that may go against your religion). For example, being against contraception just because your Church tells you to be is, well, incredibly stupid. Sex is enjoyable and doesn't have to result in pregnancy. Contraception is a responsible choice.

The Catholic Church needs to modernize, stay out of people's bedrooms and subscribe, only, to dealing with the spiritual well being of its followers, not who they bang and how.

As for abortion: a woman's body is her own damned business.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm
by Spiritus Sancti
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Well, I was almost aborted, that is a fact. My mother is a drug addicted and mentally ill(and she still is). She took heavy drugs when I was her "fetus"(as I hypothesize what you would call it.) She was so mentally ill that she attacked my Grandmother(her mother) right in-front of me.


I would play the world's smallest violin for you, but I just can't be arsed.

So Catholics in the US disobey their Church? Big deal. You need to think about what best suits you (even if that may go against your religion). For example, being against contraception just because your Church tells you to be is, well, incredibly stupid. Sex is enjoyable and doesn't have to result in pregnancy. Contraception is a responsible choice.

The Catholic Church needs to modernize, stay out of people's bedrooms and subscribe, only, to dealing with the spiritual well being of its followers, not who they bang and how.

As for abortion: a woman's body is her own damned business.


Yep, your trolling proves how mature you are. :clap: It really shows

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm
by Bombadil
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Norstal wrote:Clearly the freedom of thought is a hard concept for some people to grasp. OP must be asking, "how can these people have free will on their own?"


No, I am asking that why can someone say they agree with everything the Church teaches and they don't.


I blame the serpent, who got off very lightly to be honest - 'ye shall crawl on your belly for all days'.. 'right, well, I'm a snake.. that's ridi... oh, oh yeah, right, you got me God, I'm totally punished now..'

*courtesy of Ricky Gervais

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm
by Norstal
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Norstal wrote:Clearly the freedom of thought is a hard concept for some people to grasp. OP must be asking, "how can these people have free will on their own?"


No, I am asking that why can someone say they agree with everything the Church teaches and they don't.

So if you're a Christian, you have to agree with everything Christ did? I'm pretty sure if I slapped a Christian, they'd slap me back and not slap their other cheek.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:10 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I would play the world's smallest violin for you, but I just can't be arsed.

So Catholics in the US disobey their Church? Big deal. You need to think about what best suits you (even if that may go against your religion). For example, being against contraception just because your Church tells you to be is, well, incredibly stupid. Sex is enjoyable and doesn't have to result in pregnancy. Contraception is a responsible choice.

The Catholic Church needs to modernize, stay out of people's bedrooms and subscribe, only, to dealing with the spiritual well being of its followers, not who they bang and how.

As for abortion: a woman's body is her own damned business.


Yep, your trolling proves how mature you are. :clap: It really shows


Riiiight.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:10 pm
by Norstal
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Yep, your trolling proves how mature you are. :clap: It really shows


Riiiight.

Oh damnit Nana, what did the Inquisition say about free thoughts? That is bad! TO THE TORTURE CHAMBERS WITH YOU.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:11 pm
by Bombadil
Norstal wrote:
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
No, I am asking that why can someone say they agree with everything the Church teaches and they don't.

So if you're a Christian, you have to agree with everything Christ did? I'm pretty sure if I slapped a Christian, they'd slap me back and not slap their other cheek.


Depending on which Christian and which cheek, they might just..

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:11 pm
by AiliailiA
EDIT: Supporting OP in wishing the thread never happened.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:11 pm
by Eirenia
Spiritus Sancti wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
I guess it's pre-emptive against the old "how would you like it if you'd been aborted" play.


Well, I was almost aborted, that is a fact. My mother is a drug addicted and mentally ill(and she still is). She took heavy drugs when I was her "fetus"(as I hypothesize what you would call it.) She was so mentally ill that she attacked my Grandmother(her mother) right in-front of me when I was seven years old.


uh, okay? I also had a full-blooded sibling who was aborted, for the same medical issue that complicated my mother's pregnancy with me. It's not a trump card and also the rest of your post still had nothing to do with abortion. :?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:12 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
Norstal wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Riiiight.

Oh damnit Nana, what did the Inquisition say about free thoughts? That is bad! TO THE TORTURE CHAMBERS WITH YOU.


You forget that I am the Spanish Inquisition. So, bring the comfy chair!