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by Maroza » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:45 am
by Tmutarakhan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:51 am
Big Jim P wrote:Tmutarakhan wrote:Not in any focussed direction. Our radio emissions are such a pathetically small fraction of the radio emission of Jupiter, let alone the sun, that at distances of light-year they could not possibly be picked out.
Wouldn't hat depend on how sensitive the detection equipment used is? (And of course how powerful the computers used to sift out our radio signals)
by Sidhae » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:03 am
by Samuraikoku » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:06 am
Sidhae wrote:Think of it as yourself being an NPC in a video game - would you be able to recognize player characters if you were not aware of being a video game character?
by Tyrants » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:17 am
by Salandriagado » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:39 am
Sidhae wrote:First, let's look at the Universe as a kind of computer, all contained within being information. Every process, no matter how complex, that takes place within, is effectively a program in operation, including life and ultimately, the essence of individual beings. Their manifestation in the material universe is in that case but a projection of their essence, much like this text you now read is but a manifestation of otherwise invisible information on your monitor.
Now, if that is the case, then obviously all living beings have a soul, a program that defines how they are manifest in the material universe.
By extension, that would imply there exist sapient beings far more advanced than us, who are aware and familiar with the principles of how this underlying programmature of the Universe works and how to manipulate it.
If that is so, that would remove the need for them to construct spacecraft, enabling them to travel interstellar distances simply by projecting their essence, and to manifest themselves via avatars suited to native environment of their destination world, much like we create our customized avatars in video games - in other words, aliens could walk among us without us even recognizing them as such.
Think of it as yourself being an NPC in a video game - would you be able to recognize player characters if you were not aware of being a video game character? Could you find it plausible that the character next to you is an avatar of some being from a world outside your own, or believe that such a world even exists?
To put it short - maybe we all live in the Matrix, a computer simulation run by some outside force, which would explain the absence of aliens.
Or maybe we are simply being extremely arrogant by assuming that spacefaring civilizations should be interested in visiting our world, which is really but a rock orbiting an insignificant star in the ass end of the Galaxy. There's no doubt there exist such civilizations, but the chances of them coming across us are extremely slim. They could very well be having a major colony in Alpha Centauri system just a few light years away and never know we're here.
by Fort Kick Ass » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:43 am
by Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:31 pm
G3N13 wrote:I chose "Evolution to and conditions for intelligent life is rare to nonexistent", however that's not exact.
I'm more into 'space is just too darn big' -explanation.
Let's do a magnitude estimation, with optimistic numbers from the hat:
- Spacefaring species: 1000
- Ships/probes dedicated to scouting star systems: 10,000 per species
- Average probe velocity during travel: c/2
- Average stellar density: 1 per cubic parsec -> ie. closest star is roughly 1 parsec away -> ie. probe is 6 years in transit
- Average research time per system: Negligible
Average research speed of all the spacefaring species combined:
1000 * 10000/6 years = 1,67 million star systems per year
Now, size of our galaxy:
- 200 000 000 000 to 400 000 000 000 stars.
- Perhaps 1/4 is habitable
Which totals to an average research frequency of a habitable star system:
Once every 30 000 to 60 000 years.
Also, let's not forget this:
- Average time to report home: 300 years
- Average time to react back: 600 years
So, perhaps there are aliens over there but they need not have visited this place in tens of thousands of years EVEN if they were actively probing nearby stars.
by Salandriagado » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:52 pm
Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:G3N13 wrote:I chose "Evolution to and conditions for intelligent life is rare to nonexistent", however that's not exact.
I'm more into 'space is just too darn big' -explanation.
Let's do a magnitude estimation, with optimistic numbers from the hat:
- Spacefaring species: 1000
- Ships/probes dedicated to scouting star systems: 10,000 per species
- Average probe velocity during travel: c/2
- Average stellar density: 1 per cubic parsec -> ie. closest star is roughly 1 parsec away -> ie. probe is 6 years in transit
- Average research time per system: Negligible
Average research speed of all the spacefaring species combined:
1000 * 10000/6 years = 1,67 million star systems per year
Now, size of our galaxy:
- 200 000 000 000 to 400 000 000 000 stars.
- Perhaps 1/4 is habitable
Which totals to an average research frequency of a habitable star system:
Once every 30 000 to 60 000 years.
Also, let's not forget this:
- Average time to report home: 300 years
- Average time to react back: 600 years
So, perhaps there are aliens over there but they need not have visited this place in tens of thousands of years EVEN if they were actively probing nearby stars.
Problem: with the stated level of propulsion technology it is completely trivial for said civilization to colonize the entire galaxy.
All of it.
Probably inside of half a million years.
by Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:59 pm
Salandriagado wrote:Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:
Problem: with the stated level of propulsion technology it is completely trivial for said civilization to colonize the entire galaxy.
All of it.
Probably inside of half a million years.
No it isn't. Not in the slightest. That just simply isn't true in any way, shape or form.
by Samuraikoku » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:01 pm
Genivaria wrote:Carl Sagan's novel Contact submits the idea that warmongering cultures and species tend to kill themselves off before ever making it into space.
by Salandriagado » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:01 pm
Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. Not in the slightest. That just simply isn't true in any way, shape or form.
Except it is.
The stated level of propulsion technology is as far beyond the level of propulsion technology required to make it trivial as, say, a nuclear-propelled ship is beyond a handmade rowboat.
by Sobaeg » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:13 pm
Genivaria wrote:Carl Sagan's novel Contact submits the idea that warmongering cultures and species tend to kill themselves off before ever making it into space.
by Martean » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:15 pm
by Sobaeg » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:16 pm
Martean wrote:Anyway, I think we would kill ourselves before we managed to find any other planet. Look what we've been doing for 1 million years: Fight. We are just animals but instead of fighting with our hands we throw nuclear bombs to the countries we don't like. Imagine what we could do with super technology, a minor war in the Middle East of 10,000 from today could kill hundreds of millions.
We were intelligent enough to create weapons, but he haven't been intelligent enough to NOT use them.
by Martean » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:19 pm
Sobaeg wrote:Martean wrote:Anyway, I think we would kill ourselves before we managed to find any other planet. Look what we've been doing for 1 million years: Fight. We are just animals but instead of fighting with our hands we throw nuclear bombs to the countries we don't like. Imagine what we could do with super technology, a minor war in the Middle East of 10,000 from today could kill hundreds of millions.
We were intelligent enough to create weapons, but he haven't been intelligent enough to NOT use them.
what do you mean, we are constantly not nuking other nations like usa china etc.
by Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:37 pm
Salandriagado wrote:Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:
Except it is.
The stated level of propulsion technology is as far beyond the level of propulsion technology required to make it trivial as, say, a nuclear-propelled ship is beyond a handmade rowboat.
Go on then. Work out the cost and manufacturing capacity necessary. Straight up distance/time calculations don't work.
by Priory Academy USSR » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:04 pm
by Salandriagado » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:38 pm
Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:Salandriagado wrote:
Go on then. Work out the cost and manufacturing capacity necessary. Straight up distance/time calculations don't work.
Using the most conservative possible interpretation of the technology required to meet that mission profile, a single developed solar system is capable
of deploying ten thousand interstellar probes, each of which is equipped with a propulsion system far beyond any in the literature and capable of supporting its own fuel and maintenance needs without outside assistance. At that hilarious level of technical ability, the dominant limiting factors for colonization with fast vessels (the time until colonies can send out their own missions and the maximum range of the starship) become largely irrelevant and you're back to being limited by your starship's maximum velocity.
by UNIverseVERSE » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:15 pm
by Meryuma » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:35 pm
Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.
Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."
Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.
Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.
Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...
*puts on sunglasses*
blow out of proportions."
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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