How much do WE owe?

[Williamson]

first i want to kno what the op is someking.

secound even if all the bull crap he saying is true how he would vist our '100 trillion dollar debt"

[Wikkiwallana]

Which is because they spend money on you.

Ungrateful much?

Lol.

Imagine if everyone was allowed to charge people for favors even if they only happened on paper.

Ever had a glass of tap water?

[Socialdemokraterne]

secound even if all the bull crap he saying is true how he would vist our '100 trillion dollar debt"

Isn't it obvious? End the "ponzi scheme". Dissolve the state and federal governments, become an AnCap society. If the private sector always does everything better, why not?

...what's that you said, oh voice in my head? The private sector isn't inherently superior, and is just as susceptible to failure through principal-agent dilemmas? Mainstream economists on the macro and micro level recommend a combinatorial approach focusing on cooperation between public and private actors? The OP is a Poe?

Suggestion withdrawn.

[Obamacult]

Maybe this will open the door: $100 trillion in unfunded debt, $16 trillion deficit. If we extrapolate these numbers into a normal household it would be like a family making $55,000 a year and owing over $55,000 in debt that they are force to pay back a portion each month with interest. Now please tell me how that doesn't suck big time ass? On the $100 trillion unfunded debt, it is analogous to my Uncle Jimbo who makes less than $40,000 a year borrowing a few million from his bookie, betting the money on the Cubs to win the World Series in 2012 and you do the math. But Jimbo is lucky, he just gets every bone in his body broken. We won't be that lucky. But I can see that when you bring truth to power to a socialism party you get ridiculed for trying to bring awareness about some sorry shit that is going to screw up our future because some dudes in Washington want to send their kids to private schools . So I won't waste my time anymore, it was more illuminating than fun.

BTW, in answer to the poll question, we owe a shit load that we don't have and don't have the deep pockets to ever get. The mean is prolly around $75 trillion, and the range is nuthin' to $250 trillion. The low end of the mean is from some dudes who say that weird crap that we owe it to ourselves, or we can just print more money, or we can raise taxes, stuff like that from dudes who have prolly taken enough ECO classes to be really dangerous with predictions.

Just sayin' , not hatin'

See the part in bold? Explain that please.

I know it sucks. My country has a 50% tax rate, how do you like that?

Funny that Obama brags about gubbermint, but sends his kids to private school like just about every other rich dude in Congress. Kinda hypocritical don't ya think? At least Jimmy Carter was principled enough to send his daughter to public school when he was in the White House. The guy was a buffoon, but an honest buffoon.

[Obamacult]

Try getting 100 trillion right every time you put it down, I got it wrong one time and now this is the whole enchilada that you guys use to discredit the substance of what I have proposed. Typical and not surprising that this triviality is what ya all are going to hang your hat on while your beloved Big Brother is spending your future away, albeit pot hole free. It won't matter how clean and true the roads are when you can't afford a car to drive on your pristine roads because every respectable employer has left the country because of incredibly destructive tax rates and regulations.

But go ahead, I put some zeros in the wrong place on a single post, hang your hat on that, and you might find a few other opportunities to divert attention away from your government spending your future away paying for things that won't be around or we no longer have the money to maintain when we are middle aged.

Blabity bla bla bla.

You said the deficit was 16 quadrillion. The deficit is actually much less than that. Even if you misplaced a zero, it does not matter. Taking away the extra 0's would mean that your post would say 'The deficit is 16 trillion', which is still wildly inaccurate. You think unfunded liabilities are part of the national debt. You throw around massive political cliches in every post. I have no reason to take your arguments seriously.

Furthermore, your mistakes are far more common than you would act like. Ladies and gentlemen of the NSG jury, exhibit A:

Because we are in debt up to $100,000,000,000,000 and I am pissed and worried about that. And the people that are drinking cool aid are either english majors who can't add or math majors who can't read. I mean, that $100 trillion is some serious crap that is going to be dumped in our backyards. Right.

The national debt is actually 16 trillion.

Exhibit B:

Okie dokie, when Big Ears took over from Big Dummy the deficit was $10 trillion. Today it is $16 trillion. 16-10=6. Unless, you drink kool aid and then you get tons of graphs and excuses and 'we didn't know it was that bad' and more poverty and more food stamps and more welfare and more gridlock.

The deficit was 1.2 trillion dollars when Obama took office. It is hundreds of billions now.

Exhibit C:

The gubbermint promises made to fund fantasyland health care and fantasyland social security is $100,000,000,000,000. The actual deficit right now is $16,000,000,000,000,000. Try to hang your hat on either one as anything but criminal and generational theft is an epic fail.

Nope.

Exhibit D:

What a minute, 5 sets of zeros is a hundred trillion! Who's the English major who can't add now ? LOL No matter the deficit is $16,000,000,000,000 and the unfunded debt is $100,000,000,000,000. I am pretty damn sure I got that right. But it don't matter, like my bad grammar don't matter, it means we all take a big bite outta a shit sandwich someday, courtesy of your boy Big Brotha.

Exhibit E:

Maybe this will open the door: $100 trillion in unfunded debt, $16 trillion deficit. If we extrapolate these numbers into a normal household it would be like a family making $55,000 a year and owing over $55,000 in debt that they are force to pay back a portion each month with interest. Now please tell me how that doesn't suck big time ass? On the $100 trillion unfunded debt, it is analogous to my Uncle Jimbo who makes less than $40,000 a year borrowing a few million from his bookie, betting the money on the Cubs to win the World Series in 2012 and you do the math. But Jimbo is lucky, he just gets every bone in his body broken. We won't be that lucky. But I can see that when you bring truth to power to a socialism party you get ridiculed for trying to bring awareness about some sorry shit that is going to screw up our future because some dudes in Washington want to send their kids to private schools . So I won't waste my time anymore, it was more illuminating than fun.

BTW, in answer to the poll question, we owe a shit load that we don't have and don't have the deep pockets to ever get. The mean is prolly around $75 trillion, and the range is nuthin' to $250 trillion. The low end of the mean is from some dudes who say that weird crap that we owe it to ourselves, or we can just print more money, or we can raise taxes, stuff like that from dudes who have prolly taken enough ECO classes to be really dangerous with predictions.

Just sayin' , not hatin'

I rest my case.

I made one typo and the peanut gallery gets crazy cuz you don't have anything else to hang your hat on. As I have always said, the deficit is $16 trillion, unfunded debt is between $50-$200 trillion. We cool now?

Yeah, Obama has raised the deficit hundreds of billions of dollars. From $10 trillion in 2009 to $16 trillion today. Obama has never had a year in which the deficit was below $1 trillion, never, nada, zilch, not once. Even more crazy was that he said he would cut the deficit in half. As Penn and Teller would say, that is bullshit, but Obama has an excuse for everything, he says the recession was worse than he thought. Well if the dude didn't know what he was getting into and made crazy predictions and blames everyone and everything else for shit , why are we dumb enough to vote for him. I can make bad predictions for $400 large a year.

I'm not going to rest my case cuz my future is dependent on taking away the national credit card from a drunk with power, crooked and cruel Uncle Sam who is spending our money for crap we didn't ask for and didn't have a say in that won't benefit us when we are middle aged.

'Like playing a tape recorder' Welcome to my world trying to convince people the basic math that you can't promise $100 trillion worth of junk for tomorrow, while your $16 trillion in debt today and you only make $16 trillion a year and if you raise taxes on the rich you only get $1 trillion extra cash over 10 years. Did Obama ever pass mathematics ? I think not.

[Tmutarakhan]

I made one typo and the peanut gallery gets crazy cuz you don't have anything else to hang your hat on.

What do you mean we don't have anything else? You have made errors in practically every statement you make.

As I have always said, the deficit is $16 trillion

That is incorrect. Learn the difference between "deficit" and "debt".

unfunded debt is between $50-$200 trillion. We cool now?

No, the "debt" is the 16 trillion.

Yeah, Obama has raised the deficit hundreds of billions of dollars.

No, Obama has reduced the deficit, however he has not brought the deficit down anywhere near to zero, so the debt continues to grow.

[Obamacult]

Someone posted that social security and health care are different funding streams, I really don't know what stream that dude is drinking from

It's called "reality", wish you could join us.

but the federal government spends and borrows over 40% of its current spending on social security and health care.

No, the Social Security and Medicare spending comes out of the payroll taxes and premium payments dedicated to those purposes, which are currently in surplus (supplying more money than the expenditures) although this will not always remain the case. The governmental borrowing is for the other parts of the budget, which income tax (and other revenues, but the income tax is the major source) woefully fails to cover thanks to George W. Bush's act of intentional sabotage.

Srsly dude, spending today, not yesterday, not tomorrow, but today by the federal government is over 20% for both social security and 20% for health care. Check out this graph from the Bush and Romney bundler Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. Yeah, I know they are rightwing nutjobs, NOT, but they are all I had:



Does anyone have any questions? And check this out, Obama borrowed $0.40 for every dollar he has been spending to pay for all this crap and if you try and tell me that social security and health care pay for themselves when they are over 50% of a budget that requires borrowing for 40% of the budget then I got a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/27/kent-conrad/kent-conrad-said-were-borrowing-40-cents-every-dol/

Yeah, I know Politifact is a big time Romney and conservative bundler funded by the Koch brothers, NOT, but that is all I got. And yeah your right social security is just barely paying its bills by the skin of its teeth, but what happens when the number of people receiving benefits is ten times the number paying into the system? Did ya ever think about that junk? And did you know that we are already taxing individuals and businesses to pay for this crappy system and you srsly want to tax them more and you think that won't kill an economy already on life support?


Who ya goin' blame in the next four years when we have no more wars and the deficit keeps getting bigger? Bush, Congress, rich dudes, ya didn't know it was this bad ?

[Obamacult]

secound even if all the bull crap he saying is true how he would vist our '100 trillion dollar debt"

Isn't it obvious? End the "ponzi scheme". Dissolve the state and federal governments, become an AnCap society. If the private sector always does everything better, why not?

...what's that you said, oh voice in my head? The private sector isn't inherently superior, and is just as susceptible to failure through principal-agent dilemmas? Mainstream economists on the macro and micro level recommend a combinatorial approach focusing on cooperation between public and private actors? The OP is a Poe?

Suggestion withdrawn.

Who said anything about ancap stuff? Just downsize this crap from Washington to the states. Let the states experiment with 50 different possible solutions and none of them too big to fail. Right now we got a one size fits all too big to fail time bomb managed by dudes thousands of miles from the problems. Jefferson said 'government closest to the people, governs best'. Sounds smart to me.

Sure the private sector fails, but I don't care cuz it doesn't effect me unless I lose a job or stock prices that I own plummet. But when gubbermint fails, and it will, we all get screwed. Free market only the chumps that invested in bad companies get screwed as they should, gubbermint fails we all get screwed whether we voted for the assholes that screwed up or not. The punchline is that the politicians in gubbermint are long gone when the shit hits the fan, they leave the next generation to clean up their dirty laundry. I don't know about you, but I think that sucks. It is called generational theft, big crazy ponzie scheme when your the last one to get the chain letter.

[Tmutarakhan]

It's called "reality", wish you could join us.

No, the Social Security and Medicare spending comes out of the payroll taxes and premium payments dedicated to those purposes, which are currently in surplus (supplying more money than the expenditures) although this will not always remain the case. The governmental borrowing is for the other parts of the budget, which income tax (and other revenues, but the income tax is the major source) woefully fails to cover thanks to George W. Bush's act of intentional sabotage.

Srsly dude, spending today, not yesterday, not tomorrow, but today by the federal government is over 20% for both social security and 20% for health care.

Which is covered by income streams dedicated to those purposes.

Check out this graph from the Bush and Romney bundler Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. Yeah, I know they are rightwing nutjobs, NOT, but they are all I had

You need somewhat broader sources of information. It would help if you would lose the attitude that you already know everything, and start listening to what patient people have attempted to explain to you right here on this thread.

[Obamacult]

I made one typo and the peanut gallery gets crazy cuz you don't have anything else to hang your hat on.

What do you mean we don't have anything else? You have made errors in practically every statement you make.

As I have always said, the deficit is $16 trillion

That is incorrect. Learn the difference between "deficit" and "debt".

unfunded debt is between $50-$200 trillion. We cool now?

No, the "debt" is the 16 trillion.

Yeah, Obama has raised the deficit hundreds of billions of dollars.

No, Obama has reduced the deficit, however he has not brought the deficit down anywhere near to zero, so the debt continues to grow.

Dude, the unfunded debt is over $100 trillion, the operative word being unfunded crap that was promised by your beloved Uncle Sam that in no way are we going to see a dime of. Bonkers on the Obama reduced the deficit, under Barry we have had trillion dollar after trillion dollar record deficits.

Cmon' man!

[Obamacult]

Srsly dude, spending today, not yesterday, not tomorrow, but today by the federal government is over 20% for both social security and 20% for health care.

Which is covered by income streams dedicated to those purposes.

Check out this graph from the Bush and Romney bundler Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. Yeah, I know they are rightwing nutjobs, NOT, but they are all I had

You need somewhat broader sources of information. It would help if you would lose the attitude that you already know everything, and start listening to what patient people have attempted to explain to you right here on this thread.

Wrong, social security is not receiving what it is paying out. Also, it will get a whole hellz of a lot worse when the demographics get worse, when the baby boomers start wearing diapers again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html?_r=0

That's right, we are now borrowing to pay into social security, oops did I just step on a 3rd rail?

Sorry about the attitude, but I spent half a thread trying to explain a simple typo that the peanut gallery went after like a wounded catfish in a tank of red belly piranha. But I don't see how I can get more broader info from the obvious and clear fact that the government is spending over 50% of its money paying for social security and health care. And if you have to tax people for this, your income stream, that limits additional revenue sources to fund basic gubbermint services that are going to get kicked in the arse when this income stream ya all talk about turns into a drip, drip, drip.

Just sayin', not hatin'

[Obamacult]

To all those brave souls who picked the highest number, I salute you , but we are not there yet, we only owe $1,000,000 per tax payer to the federal debt. But don't worry Barry is working hard to up that number with his crazy spending on filling every pothole twice over, trying to find and fund a solar power or wind turbine company that can stay in bidness longer than a weekend and increasing the costs of education to pay for those reduced outcomes. We may yet get to that magic number, especially considering his goto plan to reduce the deficit is to tax small bidnessI mean the rich out-of-bidness for a paltry 80 billion a year in added tax revenue. That will make as much dent in the debt as drudging the pennies outta the reflecting pool in front of ole' Abe. But no worries, he will always find a scapegoat. Lincoln said himself you can fool looters all the time as long as you give them a free flat screen tv.

[CVT Temp]

Look at me everybody! I have no understanding of the difference between a debt and a budget deficit! My completely original points built upon a confusion between these two things are totally interesting and worth discussion.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Obamacult: Yes, you. With all your accusations of people being too 'stupid' to see sense, and not learning after having supposedly been shown the 'error of their ways', you certainly are exhibiting an extraordinary lack of learning on your part.

Repeated locks, warnings, bans, even deletions of previous incarnations, and you are still up to your same, one-trick-pony show.

This needs to stop. You need to argue with some semblance of civility. You need to source your claims when making them, as does everyone else. And just repeating yourself over and over does not constitute 'debate'. Nor do points go to he who can name-call the most often - that's a good way to get dinged.

So in closing, if you intend on remaining on this site, I would strongly suggest you get yourself sorted, familiarize yourself with the rules, and ffs LEARN something after having been once more chastised.