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How much do WE owe?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Thanks to drunken and cheatin' Uncle Sam, how much do we owe per taxpayer?

$1
24
23%
$10
1
1%
$100
2
2%
$1,000
1
1%
$10,000
8
8%
$100,000
27
26%
$1,000,000
4
4%
$10,000,000
2
2%
$100,000,000
1
1%
$1,000,000,000
35
33%
 
Total votes : 105

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Samuraikoku
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Posts: 31947
Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:50 pm

I don't drink, but you owe me a bottle of Jack Daniels.

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Antiliberalbis
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Posts: 148
Founded: Nov 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Antiliberalbis » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:51 pm

Tax the Rich
Feed the Poor
Till there are no Rich no more.
Gay Marriage. Separation of Church and State/Secularism. End to wars in the Middle East. Pro-Choice. Public Schools.


Political Correctness. Feminism. i'm for the rights of all people. Wealth Redistribution. Socialism. Communism. Healthcare mandates. Big Government. Extreme gun control. The perception of the Constitution being a "Living Document." Affirmative Action. Wasteful spending.

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Desperate Measures
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Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:53 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote: >:( Now, you're making my protest overly complicated! And it still doesn't solve the problem of all this cheap, crappy tea that I have laying about from several Christmases ago.

That's easy. Wrap it up and re-gift it.

I guess I could gift it to the White House and then recover some karma for dumping the gubermint's tea into the water. I wonder if that would also cover blaming some Native Americans?
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Desperate Measures
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:59 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:This is overly complicated. I'm about to start throwing tea into a large body of water. All the tea I have. And then... and then... er... something will come of that. I'm sure.

The fish will become British.

Image
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Ifreann
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Posts: 163935
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:01 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The fish will become British.

Image

Exactly
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:06 pm

Eastern Plaugelands wrote:$52,000 per citizen.
$142,550 per tax-paying citizen.



I have no intent of paying my share.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Obamacult
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Posts: 1514
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Obamacult » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:09 pm

Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.

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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:10 pm

greed and death wrote:
Eastern Plaugelands wrote:$52,000 per citizen.
$142,550 per tax-paying citizen.



I have no intent of paying my share.


Oh if there was some way I could magically force the government to stop letting Republicans spend money like mad so that my retirement would be assured, I'd do it. Alas we have a severe lack of magic in the world.

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Bobbyland420
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Posts: 147
Founded: Oct 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Bobbyland420 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:11 pm

It's actually closer to a million dollars per person if you include the unfunded liabilities.

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Khadgar
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Posts: 11006
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Khadgar » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.


You want to keep the debt down? Vote Democrat. Republicans spend money like mad. I can't even come up with a good simile. The biggest spenders in the world are goddamned conservative compared to how US "conservatives" act once they get in power.

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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.

Whats the solution? I can't find a ship with tea on it and nobody paid attention when I started screaming "The injuns are to blame!" while running down my street.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Enadail
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Posts: 5799
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
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Postby Enadail » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.


I tried reading this, but I don't read gibberish.

The government is not a household. Governments do not work like households. Debt is not an inherently bad thing for a government. We are in debt, but the only real issue behind is instead of people utilizing government services (currently the most expensive being our big war machine) and paying a reasonable sum for it, we keep reducing the taxes, and keep reducing income. Its not about reducing expenditure (though we could certainly afford to trim a bunch of programs), its about making sure our income is sufficient. We're slashing taxes while expanding our military, and a healthcare program that makes private businesses richer is the problem? Ha.

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Obamacult
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Posts: 1514
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
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Postby Obamacult » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Khadgar wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.


You want to keep the debt down? Vote Democrat. Republicans spend money like mad. I can't even come up with a good simile. The biggest spenders in the world are goddamned conservative compared to how US "conservatives" act once they get in power.



Of course, your only half right. Republicans get the blame for the crazy too high military spending, but the biggest drivers of the debt are both democratic socialist kool aid drinking ponzie schemes of social insecurity and government health careless.

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Enadail
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
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Postby Enadail » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Obamacult wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
You want to keep the debt down? Vote Democrat. Republicans spend money like mad. I can't even come up with a good simile. The biggest spenders in the world are goddamned conservative compared to how US "conservatives" act once they get in power.



Of course, your only half right. Republicans get the blame for the crazy too high military spending, but the biggest drivers of the debt are both democratic socialist kool aid drinking ponzie schemes of social insecurity and government health careless.


When handled properly, social security works just fine, and the only thing the new healthcare bill does is make private healthcare companies loads of money. Care to try again?

Also... any facts to support your enormous suppositions? Or just making shit up?

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Person012345
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Posts: 16783
Founded: Feb 16, 2010
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Postby Person012345 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Everyone knows there is debt. Everyone knows there is tax. Do you have a solution that doesn't involve turning your country into a third world shithole?

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Constaniana
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25822
Founded: Mar 10, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Constaniana » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:18 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:This is overly complicated. I'm about to start throwing tea into a large body of water. All the tea I have. And then... and then... er... something will come of that. I'm sure.

The fish will become British.

We don't need more types of immigrants to deal with! :p Those lazy fish sodomites will sit around all day leeching off the efforts of the noble, hard-working, perfect, righteous glorious Englishman!
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4years
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Posts: 4971
Founded: Aug 17, 2012
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Postby 4years » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Person012345 wrote:By the way, the poll will be used to determine the actual US debt per taxpayer. All happenings in international economics thus far are irrelevant. The fate of the US economy rests on an NS poll.


'Votes for $10000000000000000000000000000.99'
Serves them right.
Political Compass: Economic Left/Right: -10.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -10
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. "
-Rosa Luxemburg
"In place of bourgeois society with all of it's classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, one in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all" -Karl Marx
There is no such thing as rational self interest; pure reason leads to the greatest good for the greatest number.

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Person012345
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Postby Person012345 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:21 pm

Do you even know what a ponzi scheme is? Because I don't think you do.

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Cannot think of a name
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Posts: 45100
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:21 pm

Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.

Hold on, I'll get you a sandwich board and copy some fliers...
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Divair
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Founded: May 06, 2009
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Postby Divair » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:21 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The fish will become British.

Image

That is amazing.

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Laerod
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26183
Founded: Jul 17, 2004
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Laerod » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:22 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Chronic Hypersomnia wrote:I want 1,000,000,000,000,000$.

Sure, but where would you put it?

Switzerland, duh.

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4years
Senator
 
Posts: 4971
Founded: Aug 17, 2012
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Postby 4years » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:22 pm

Person012345 wrote:Do you even know what a ponzi scheme is? Because I don't think you do.


A ponzi scheme is when the govermemt does somthing I don't like. Duh.

/sarcasm/
Political Compass: Economic Left/Right: -10.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -10
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. "
-Rosa Luxemburg
"In place of bourgeois society with all of it's classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, one in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all" -Karl Marx
There is no such thing as rational self interest; pure reason leads to the greatest good for the greatest number.

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Divair
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63434
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:23 pm

Laerod wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Sure, but where would you put it?

Switzerland, duh.

You mean the Cayman Islands.

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Obamacult
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1514
Founded: Nov 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Obamacult » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:26 pm

Enadail wrote:
Obamacult wrote:Whoa. I guess we are at the stage in the ponzie scheme where we are still in denial and still trust Bernie. A funny line in the show was 'the [i]tell you need to look for a new financial manager is when your 55 yo, bald, fat financial adviser starts dating pole dancers.' [/i] The funny line that our kids will be telling each other is that the tell when dad and grandad needed a new government is when 'it started borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to pay for current expenditures while still owing $100,000,000,000,000 of unfunded promised future expenditures'. Hey enjoy yourselves bros, we ain't gettin' social security, we ain't gettin' free health care, we ain't gettin' a decent job, and we ain't gettin' a free education, and if we're lucky we will only end up like Argentina or Greece.

Just saying, I mean when regular Joe's like me figure out this crap is going down, the rest of you at the bar need to at least start talkin' to a different financial adviser.


I tried reading this, but I don't read gibberish.

The government is not a household. Governments do not work like households. Debt is not an inherently bad thing for a government. We are in debt, but the only real issue behind is instead of people utilizing government services (currently the most expensive being our big war machine) and paying a reasonable sum for it, we keep reducing the taxes, and keep reducing income. Its not about reducing expenditure (though we could certainly afford to trim a bunch of programs), its about making sure our income is sufficient. We're slashing taxes while expanding our military, and a healthcare program that makes private businesses richer is the problem? Ha.


True that, gubbermint doesn't work like households cuz they spend other people's money and don't have to pay it off with their own money when they screw up or epic fail. This just send an IRS agent to my house with a gun like my Uncle Eddy's bookie. And no dude, military spending is 3rd on the list of epic fails behind social insecurity and gubbermint health careless.

My drunk and broke Uncle Jimbo agrees with you. He says that the cure for our family's debt (only Uncle Eddy is indebt) is too give him more money so he can pay off his debt. And yeah, when my hard working Uncle Bill has to pay off Uncle Eddy's gambling debts and STD treatments he can't invest his money in expanding and improving the family business.

Srsly, dude, if you think that private businesses getting richer is a bad thing, but you want to tax these same private businesses to pay for dumb stuff, then isn't that kind of counterproductive? I mean don't you really want private businesses to get richer so they can pay more in taxes to fund dumb gubbermint stuff and programs ?

But bro, if you think that feeding the beast if the right path, then we may as well start partyin' like its 1999 (last time we had a surplus) cuz its goin' to get bad soon.

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Laerod
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26183
Founded: Jul 17, 2004
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Laerod » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:27 pm

Divair wrote:
Laerod wrote:Switzerland, duh.

You mean the Cayman Islands.

Nah. The Swiss-German banking treaty is history, so I'd rather do it close to home anyway.

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