Germany To Ban Far-Right Political Party

[Yorkopolis]

You just said they were banned for being banned for Nazism which is a Ideology.

Yorkopolis said so. I did not.

Allow me to revise myself; the party is getting banned for inciting mass hatred, representation of violence and rewarding and approving crimes, all of which are banned by the Strafgesetzbuch.

[North Calaveras]

Yorkopolis said so. I did not.

Allow me to revise myself; the party is getting banned for inciting mass hatred, representation of violence and rewarding and approving crimes, all of which are banned by the Strafgesetzbuch.

Does Marxism not advocate violence approving of crimes and mass hatred against the rich(bourquise) probably spelled that wrong, anyways sounds the same to me especially since I was a Marxist and we most definatley advocated violence against the rich as well as mass hatred.

[Lyncanestria]

Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional is trying to ban their freedom of expression and representation in government!

[Laerod]

Allow me to revise myself; the party is getting banned for inciting mass hatred, representation of violence and rewarding and approving crimes, all of which are banned by the Strafgesetzbuch.

Does Marxism not advocate violence approving of crimes and mass hatred against the rich(bourquise) probably spelled that wrong, anyways sounds the same to me especially

Question isn't whether Marxism advocates violence, question is whether parties claiming to be Marxist do.

since I was a Marxist and we most definatley advocated violence against the rich as well as mass hatred.

Sure you were.

[Laerod]

Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional is trying to ban their freedom of expression and representation in government!

Cite the relevant constitutional provision that supports your claim or retract it.

[North Calaveras]

Does Marxism not advocate violence approving of crimes and mass hatred against the rich(bourquise) probably spelled that wrong, anyways sounds the same to me especially

Question isn't whether Marxism advocates violence, question is whether parties claiming to be Marxist do.

since I was a Marxist and we most definatley advocated violence against the rich as well as mass hatred.

Sure you were.

dude i was a marxist on NS for a long time lol, my dad actually was upset with me because of it. I considered being a maoist after awhile but stuck with marx, though i changed when i left NS. NS actually turned me communist and that's the truth.

[Laerod]

Question isn't whether Marxism advocates violence, question is whether parties claiming to be Marxist do.

Sure you were.

dude i was a marxist on NS for a long time lol, my dad actually was upset with me because of it. I considered being a maoist after awhile but stuck with marx, though i changed when i left NS. NS actually turned me communist and that's the truth.

And I truly and deeply believe you.

[North Calaveras]

dude i was a marxist on NS for a long time lol, my dad actually was upset with me because of it. I considered being a maoist after awhile but stuck with marx, though i changed when i left NS. NS actually turned me communist and that's the truth.

And I truly and deeply believe you.

Yup, the people's communist state of north calaveras, those were the good old days when my dad said i was crazy for wearing a hammer and sickle t-shirt to school...looking back on it i was actually kind of dumb about it since I bought my stuff online from a corporation.

[Arkere]

Don't lie. They're not being banned for ideological reasons.

You just said they were banned for being banned for Nazism which is a Ideology.

Maybe the reason is personal distaste of that ideology, but banning a party or any organization is not that easy in Germany. It can only be banned if it is unconstitutional, which means that it has to be shown beyond doubt that goals and/or practices are in severe conflict not only with the exact wording of the "Grundgesetz", but also with the general spirit of it to guarantee a democratic state.
So, if it is considered that a party is banned, it must have very clear indications of severely hollowing out democracy or outright replacing it with a non-democratic entity. This is an act of self-defense of the democracy in Germany, involving quite a lot of procedural shenaningas - not just a decree of "So be it!" from our overbearing Bundeskanzlerin Merkel.

True, if the party is banned and dissolved, its members will probably found a new one, join another or just go independent. But that's the hare-and-hedgehog-race any rule of law finds itself in: To be just, it can only apply to things right now, that things that might happen in the future. As long the members don't commit any felony, they can't be touched themselves. I'm no friend of sorting "conspiracy" as criminal act. This can be stretched way to far beyond reasonable rule of law.

[Laerod]

True, if the party is banned and dissolved, its members will probably found a new one, join another or just go independent. But that's the hare-and-hedgehog-race any rule of law finds itself in: To be just, it can only apply to things right now, that things that might happen in the future. As long the members don't commit any felony, they can't be touched themselves. I'm no friend of sorting "conspiracy" as criminal act. This can be stretched way to far beyond reasonable rule of law.

Not exactly. In Germany, refounding banned organizations is illegal as well, and proving that an organization is the refounded version of a previously banned one (i.e. it has the same goals, membership, etc.) is quite a bit easier than taking it to the Constitutional Court.

[Sorgloss]

Allow me to revise myself; the party is getting banned for inciting mass hatred, representation of violence and rewarding and approving crimes, all of which are banned by the Strafgesetzbuch.

Well then, the proper action should be taken in accordance to the laws on the books.

[Laerod]

Allow me to revise myself; the party is getting banned for inciting mass hatred, representation of violence and rewarding and approving crimes, all of which are banned by the Strafgesetzbuch.

Well then, the proper action should be taken in accordance to the laws on the books.

It is.

[Yorkopolis]

True, if the party is banned and dissolved, its members will probably found a new one, join another or just go independent. But that's the hare-and-hedgehog-race any rule of law finds itself in: To be just, it can only apply to things right now, that things that might happen in the future. As long the members don't commit any felony, they can't be touched themselves. I'm no friend of sorting "conspiracy" as criminal act. This can be stretched way to far beyond reasonable rule of law.

Not exactly. In Germany, refounding banned organizations is illegal as well, and proving that an organization is the refounded version of a previously banned one (i.e. it has the same goals, membership, etc.) is quite a bit easier than taking it to the Constitutional Court.

The NPD is nothing more but a mere refoundation of the German Reich Party, which in itself was a foundation of the (UGH WHY DID THEY USE THE SOCIALIST LABEL) Socialist Reich Party, which was already banned in 1952. To be honest, all the NPD's members should be arrested and thrown into prison, and any attempt to refound such a horrible party should be banned as well, it's disgusting.

[North Calaveras]

Not exactly. In Germany, refounding banned organizations is illegal as well, and proving that an organization is the refounded version of a previously banned one (i.e. it has the same goals, membership, etc.) is quite a bit easier than taking it to the Constitutional Court.

The NPD is nothing more but a mere refoundation of the German Reich Party, which in itself was a foundation of the (UGH WHY DID THEY USE THE SOCIALIST LABEL) Socialist Reich Party, which was already banned in 1952. To be honest, all the NPD's members should be arrested and thrown into prison, and any attempt to refound such a horrible party should be banned as well, it's disgusting.

What about a Fascist party then?

[Yorkopolis]

The NPD is nothing more but a mere refoundation of the German Reich Party, which in itself was a foundation of the (UGH WHY DID THEY USE THE SOCIALIST LABEL) Socialist Reich Party, which was already banned in 1952. To be honest, all the NPD's members should be arrested and thrown into prison, and any attempt to refound such a horrible party should be banned as well, it's disgusting.

What about a Fascist party then?

I don't really get the question, as before I already explained as to why most people who label themselves "fascist" today are KKK neo-Nazi skinheads.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The NPD is nothing more but a mere refoundation of the German Reich Party, which in itself was a foundation of the (UGH WHY DID THEY USE THE SOCIALIST LABEL) Socialist Reich Party, which was already banned in 1952. To be honest, all the NPD's members should be arrested and thrown into prison, and any attempt to refound such a horrible party should be banned as well, it's disgusting.

What about a Fascist party then?

If it violates the Constitution, then yes, it should have the German court system's banhammer applied to it with great vigour.

[Laerod]

Not exactly. In Germany, refounding banned organizations is illegal as well, and proving that an organization is the refounded version of a previously banned one (i.e. it has the same goals, membership, etc.) is quite a bit easier than taking it to the Constitutional Court.

The NPD is nothing more but a mere refoundation of the German Reich Party, which in itself was a foundation of the (UGH WHY DID THEY USE THE SOCIALIST LABEL) Socialist Reich Party, which was already banned in 1952. To be honest, all the NPD's members should be arrested and thrown into prison, and any attempt to refound such a horrible party should be banned as well, it's disgusting.

I said it was easier than taking it to the Constitutional Court, not that it was that simple.

[North Calaveras]

What about a Fascist party then?

I don't really get the question, as before I already explained as to why most people who label themselves "fascist" today are KKK neo-Nazi skinheads.

matters not, what if there was an actualy original fascist party running should they be banned?

[Radiatia]

This is why I like Germany.

^ What he said.

[Yorkopolis]

I don't really get the question, as before I already explained as to why most people who label themselves "fascist" today are KKK neo-Nazi skinheads.

matters not, what if there was an actualy original fascist party running should they be banned?

If they violate the constitution or the Strafgesetzbuch then yes, if they don't then no.

[North Calaveras]

matters not, what if there was an actualy original fascist party running should they be banned?

If they violate the constitution or the Strafgesetzbuch then yes, if they don't then no.

I'm sorry but I feel like Germany is doing the whole " Nazism was so bad so any remnant must be wiped but we will allow left-radicals"

I'm probably not right, ill admit, but it smells like it.

[Laerod]

If they violate the constitution or the Strafgesetzbuch then yes, if they don't then no.

I'm sorry but I feel like Germany is doing the whole " Nazism was so bad so any remnant must be wiped but we will allow left-radicals"

I'm probably not right, ill admit, but it smells like it.

Yeah, well, there's a cure for that. It's called "research".

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

If they violate the constitution or the Strafgesetzbuch then yes, if they don't then no.

I'm sorry but I feel like Germany is doing the whole " Nazism was so bad so any remnant must be wiped but we will allow left-radicals"

I'm probably not right, ill admit, but it smells like it.

Correct. You aren't right.

Germany is doing the whole "This party violates our constitution and is therefore illegal, so let's build a really strong case for making an illegal party illegal so that the illegal party can be made illegal by the courts if our legal case is strong enough for them to issue a ruling that the illegal party is actually illegal and therefore will be banned" thing, not just banning because "URGH NAZIS".

[Lyncanestria]

Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional is trying to ban their freedom of expression and representation in government!

Cite the relevant constitutional provision that supports your claim or retract it.

Here you go. They have the right to voice their opinions in government. If their constituents vote for them, than they have the right to vote that way and no government should be able to ban them no matterhow far-right they be.

[Laerod]

Cite the relevant constitutional provision that supports your claim or retract it.

Here you go. They have the right to voice their opinions in government. If their constituents vote for them, than they have the right to vote that way and no government should be able to ban them no matterhow far-right they be.

You cited the constitution. The relevant provision is this:

Article 21
[Political parties]

(1) Political parties shall participate in the formation of the political will of the people. They may be freely established. Their internal organisation must conform to democratic principles. They must publicly account for their assets and for the sources and use of their funds.

(2) Parties that, by reason of their aims or the behaviour of their adherents, seek to undermine or abolish the free democratic basic order or to endanger the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany shall be unconstitutional. The Federal Constitutional Court shall rule on the question of unconstitutionality.

(3) Details shall be regulated by federal laws.

You have been proven wrong. This is constitutional.