NationStates

Great Nepal wrote:

Crata wrote:
It's not about illegal activities. It's about attacking the democratic principles of Germany.

Fundamental democratic principle includes not banning political parties for frivolous reasons.

Fixed for accuracy.

Great Nepal wrote:Fundamental democratic principle includes not banning political parties.

Partly right. The NPD however clearly violates the following principle of German democracy:
- "Minderheitenschutz", or Minority rights. Should be obvious why.

If you do want a dictatorship, you don't belong into German politics. Plain and simple.

Laerod wrote:You wouldn't shut down the Mafia? Good to know.

Of course not. However seeing everyone within the Mafia is most likely involved in a crime: I dont have any problem arresting them and putting them behind bars.

Laerod wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:
I'd say the people agreeing that taking away democratic rights from people they disagree with to be a far larger threat than a despised political party that presents no legitimate threat.

That would be because you don't know what you're talking about. Try reading the thread, thanks.

I did. Try not addressing people with thinly veiled insults next time, and remain polite.

Great Nepal wrote:

Laerod wrote:You wouldn't shut down the Mafia? Good to know.

Of course not. However seeing everyone within the Mafia is most likely involved in a crime: I dont have any problem arresting them and putting them behind bars.

Thank you for showing us the inherent ridiculousness of your position.

Ralkovia wrote:

Laerod wrote:That would be because you don't know what you're talking about. Try reading the thread, thanks.

I did. Try not addressing people with thinly veiled insults next time, and remain polite.

Try harder. Your statement has nothing to do with the thread. You do not have the democratic right to form a criminal organization.

Laerod wrote:

Great Nepal wrote:Of course not. However seeing everyone within the Mafia is most likely involved in a crime: I dont have any problem arresting them and putting them behind bars.

Thank you for showing us the inherent ridiculousness of your position.

Ralkovia wrote:
I did. Try not addressing people with thinly veiled insults next time, and remain polite.

Try harder. Your statement has nothing to do with the thread. You do not have the democratic right to form a criminal organization.

Except the NPD is a political party. Not a criminal organization. So please be polite next time.

Ralkovia wrote:

Risottia wrote:Exactly.
Or freedom of "being what they are" to get to the power and start taking away the rights of some people "because of what THEY are".

There's no such thing as an absolute right to free speech.

Yes there certainly is.

No there's not. Find me where in any jurisdiction there's an absolute right to free speech.

No, not even in America. If it were so you wouldn't have laws about libel and defamation. Or even State secrets.

Herhangi bir wrote:

Risottia wrote:Some opinions can't be allowed expression. Expecially hypocritical opinions that try to exploit democratic rights to destroy democracy and rights.

They still are going to have those objectives in mind.

They can keep them in their minds. But not make a political organization to further them.

Risottia wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:
Yes there certainly is.

No there's not. Find me where in any jurisdiction there's an absolute right to free speech.

No, not even in America. If it were so you wouldn't have laws about libel and defamation. Or even State secrets.

Oh yeah. You're right. Sorry, I didn't even put those things together.

I was thinking of the example of the don't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater. Not about libel laws.

Risottia wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:
Yes there certainly is.

No there's not. Find me where in any jurisdiction there's an absolute right to free speech.

No, not even in America. If it were so you wouldn't have laws about libel and defamation. Or even State secrets.

Quoting the Grundgesetz again:

Article V:
(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures, and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.
(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honour.

Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:
It's a swiss poster.

http://www.theartofslowtravel.com/wp-co ... oster1.jpg

That NPD one isn't, it was used in elections in Hesse.

Damn toze UnSchwitz German immigrantz who enter the borderz of the Confoederatio Helvetica to zteal our jerbz propaganda!

Crata wrote:

Risottia wrote:
No there's not. Find me where in any jurisdiction there's an absolute right to free speech.

No, not even in America. If it were so you wouldn't have laws about libel and defamation. Or even State secrets.

Quoting the Grundgesetz again:

Article V:
(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures, and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.
(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honour.

Exactly.

All rights are relative, and subject to regulation by law.

*whoosh*

That was the sound of political freedom going out the window.

Ralkovia wrote:

Laerod wrote:Thank you for showing us the inherent ridiculousness of your position.

Try harder. Your statement has nothing to do with the thread. You do not have the democratic right to form a criminal organization.

Except the NPD is a political party. Not a criminal organization. So please be polite next time.

You're saying that as though the two are mutually exclusive. It's been shown that you're wrong.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:*whoosh*

That was the sound of political freedom going out the window.

And that's the stink of hysterical exaggeration and ignorance of the facts of the matter.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:*whoosh*

That was the sound of political freedom going out the window.

Don't lie.

Laerod wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:Except the NPD is a political party. Not a criminal organization. So please be polite next time.

You're saying that as though the two are mutually exclusive. It's been shown that you're wrong.

Plus the Constitutional Court does not even care slightly about it being a criminal organisation. All it does it check whether or not the party is trying to violate the Grundgesetz.

Laerod wrote:Don't lie.

Zaras wrote:And that's the stink of hysterical exaggeration and ignorance of the facts of the matter.

Please, explain to me how banning a political party because of their beliefs is not restricting political freedom.

I know this one other German guy who was a big fan of banning political parties as well!

Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:This is why I like Germany.

Indeed, left-wingers have never been friends of liberty.

Now all they have to do is lock up Die Linke.

Just like the nazis banned other parties, thats stupid.

Laerod wrote:

Ralkovia wrote:
Except the NPD is a political party. Not a criminal organization. So please be polite next time.

You're saying that as though the two are mutually exclusive. It's been shown that you're wrong.

Umm, no, no I haven't. Not at all.

A criminal organization is a criminal organization. A political party with criminals in it is pretty much just like any other political party ever.
You haven't proven to me that the NPD is a criminal organization and a political party. Conclusively prove that the NPD advocates crime and is organized to facilitate crime.
Otherwise, its still just a political organization with criminals in it.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:

Laerod wrote:Don't lie.

Zaras wrote:And that's the stink of hysterical exaggeration and ignorance of the facts of the matter.

Please, explain to me how banning a political party because of their beliefs is not restricting political freedom.

In a constitutional democracy, oreventing the eventual rise to the power of a political party whose stated objectives are anticonstitutional saves everyone else's political freedom.

Lesser of two evils. Just like when the police have no other choice but to kill a criminal to prevent him from killing other people. You violate the his right to life to save other people's right to their lives.

Crata wrote:

Lawmakers in Berlin have been given the green light to file a complaint with the country's highest court seeking to ban the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) following a Friday vote by Germany's upper legislative chamber, the Bundesrat, on the issue.

The approval of the legal bid to ban the right-wing extremist party comes after governors of the 16 states had already agreed on supporting the measure earlier this month. They recommended that the Bundesrat, which represents Germany's 16 states, do the same.

"We are ia and a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), who added that the far-right party was aggressively pursuing its goals.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 72969.html

Opinions?
Mine? I don't think it's a terrible idea, but it does increase the riunderground.

banning political parties is undemocratic. germany should not do that.

Hippostania wrote:Indeed, left-wingers have never been friends of liberty.

Which is why they allowed women to vote.

But that's off-topic.