Germany To Ban Far-Right Political Party

[Uiiop]

I think this is rather undemocratic. It is a dangerous slippery slope when a government can outlaw ideologies they don't like.

*cough* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope *cough*

[Cvtopia]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

[Otherton Island]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

[Kvatchdom]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

What if the party breaks the constitution and beats up people, while promoting both things?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

So you want the German Constitution to be amended to allow antidemocratic, violent and racist parties to be legalised?

I seem to remember that happening in the Weimar era.

Bad shit happened as a consequence.

[Crata]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

I assume you're a member or supporter of the Piratenpartei Deutschland (Pirate Party of Germany).
I know the Piratenpartei is all about freedom of speech, but even they know limits in that field.

Racism and cultural discrimination continue to be severe problems which endanger social peace in a diverse society. Violence and intimidation due to heritage, religion or culture are inacceptable in all instances. Therefore, we must oppose racism and xenophobia in any form, just as all other ideologies of hate directed against particular groups. Social Darwinist ideologies, which depict people of certain origins as naturally superior, have been scientifically refuted and are incompatible with the values and goals of the Pirate Party, just like those ideologies which justify a „clash of cultures“ by stating that certain social groups have collective hegemonic aspirations. Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia are examples of such ideologies. Here we must not only focus on the political far-right; we must also oppose prejudice and intolerance at the heart of society: everyday racism, latent anti-Semitic stereotypes and the emerging trend of Islamophobia. The Pirate Party wants to support campaigns and initiatives aimed at improving the understanding between cultures and ideologies, reducing prejudice and promoting social cohesion. We also support campaigns which oppose activities of the extreme political right and help people to exit these types of social circles.

http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Parteiprog ... nst_racism

[Cvtopia]

So you want the German Constitution to be amended to allow antidemocratic, violent and racist parties to be legalised?

I seem to remember that happening in the Weimar era.

Bad shit happened as a consequence.

I want the German constitution to be amended to end the current state of censorship and to allow unrestricted free speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship ... of_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_c ... in_Germany

[Zyx]

If you are in favor of democracy, then you should be against this.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

If you are in favor of democracy, then you should be against this.

If you're in favour of democracy, then you should be against banning anti-democratic parties whose hierarchies are largely composed of criminals and whose basic principles violate the German Constitution?

[Cvtopia]

Freedom of speech is universal, no matter how hateful or disgusting the speech is.

I assume you're a member or supporter of the Piratenpartei Deutschland (Pirate Party of Germany).
I know the Piratenpartei is all about freedom of speech, but even they know limits in that field.

Racism and cultural discrimination continue to be severe problems which endanger social peace in a diverse society. Violence and intimidation due to heritage, religion or culture are inacceptable in all instances. Therefore, we must oppose racism and xenophobia in any form, just as all other ideologies of hate directed against particular groups. Social Darwinist ideologies, which depict people of certain origins as naturally superior, have been scientifically refuted and are incompatible with the values and goals of the Pirate Party, just like those ideologies which justify a „clash of cultures“ by stating that certain social groups have collective hegemonic aspirations. Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia are examples of such ideologies. Here we must not only focus on the political far-right; we must also oppose prejudice and intolerance at the heart of society: everyday racism, latent anti-Semitic stereotypes and the emerging trend of Islamophobia. The Pirate Party wants to support campaigns and initiatives aimed at improving the understanding between cultures and ideologies, reducing prejudice and promoting social cohesion. We also support campaigns which oppose activities of the extreme political right and help people to exit these types of social circles.

http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Parteiprog ... nst_racism

I support them because I agree with them on the need for copyright reform. ot==Not because I agree with them on everything. Appeal to authority fail.
And I support the SWEDISH pirate party, not the German one.

[Zottistan]

If you are in favor of democracy, then you should be against this.

If you're in favour of democracy, then you should be against banning anti-democratic parties whose hierarchies are largely composed of criminals and whose basic principles violate the German Constitution?

Yes. Democrats don't ban parties. Arrest the criminals, sure, but anything else is not democratic.

[Illestia]

If you are in favor of democracy, then you should be against this.

If you're in favour of democracy, then you should be against banning anti-democratic parties whose hierarchies are largely composed of criminals and whose basic principles violate the German Constitution?

Yes because that's actually what a democracy is about. If ideas that differ from the norm, no matter how stupid, are outlawed it's not a democracy.

Besides: The laws still apply, so every partaking in illegal activity by members of the party can still be prosecuted.

And on a sidenote: banning the NPD might very well just make them martyrs in the eyes of the far right and cause certain right groups to escalate their methods, leading to more violence.


Personally i think that the only purpose of the motion to ban them is to distract from the horrible failure in the solving and possibly prevention of the NSU murders.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

If the government wants to prevent far-right ideologies from taking root, the better approach would be to tackle the core of the problem, rather than stifling them altogether. I thought Germany of all countries would have learned that.

[Trotskylvania]

If you're in favour of democracy, then you should be against banning anti-democratic parties whose hierarchies are largely composed of criminals and whose basic principles violate the German Constitution?

Yes. Democrats don't ban parties. Arrest the criminals, sure, but anything else is not democratic.

The party in question, by its very nature and expressly stated ideology, is a criminal conspiracy to overthrow the republic and establish a totalitarian state.

[Kazarogkai]

Banning a political party simply for you dont agree with the, denys them the right to assembly. I may not agree with them but that doesn't mean I have a right to persecute them, if we do that then we are no more better than they are. Do not let them be your teachers, and be the adult in the situation and not go down the same path as they went down. Once you do this you will there for make a line and that line can be moved right now they say this party must be banned for its beliefs next time they can move it to all right-wing parties then in the end they can make it so that all other party's except one are banned. This can lead them down the path of a single party state and that is a path one should avoid at all cost.

[Trotskylvania]

If you're in favour of democracy, then you should be against banning anti-democratic parties whose hierarchies are largely composed of criminals and whose basic principles violate the German Constitution?

Yes because that's actually what a democracy is about. If ideas that differ from the norm, no matter how stupid, are outlawed it's not a democracy.

Besides: The laws still apply, so every partaking in illegal activity by members of the party can still be prosecuted.

And on a sidenote: banning the NPD might very well just make them martyrs in the eyes of the far right and cause certain right groups to escalate their methods, leading to more violence.


Personally i think that the only purpose of the motion to ban them is to distract from the horrible failure in the solving and possibly prevention of the NSU murders.

This isn't a matter of the party being stupid. It's the matter of the party being a criminal conspiracy to establish a totalitarian state. In other words, it's an existential threat to any free society.

Is the move to ban them now more motivated by realpolitik? Yes. But the fundamental principle is still sound. THis isn't an anti-democratic action. What would be antidemocratic, though, would be to leave the gates open an unbarred to existential threats to a free society.

[Herskerstad]

Cleverly done by Merkel, as her party being the mainstream right will probably absorb the fringe right votes on top of it.

It's the left which should be worried about this, as the party banned only carried ceremonial weight. If it looked to become a genuine contender then there would be an issue, but there's no way such would occur.

[Zaras]

Banning a political party simply for you dont agree with the,

Is not what's happening here. The NPD is being banned because it wants to destroy Germany.

I may not agree with them but that doesn't mean I have a right to persecute them

Quit defending the NPD's wish to persecute everybody else.

This can lead them down the path of a single party state and that is a path one should avoid at all cost.

Slippery slope fallacy. Lrn2logicalfallacies.

[Zottistan]

Yes. Democrats don't ban parties. Arrest the criminals, sure, but anything else is not democratic.

The party in question, by its very nature and expressly stated ideology, is a criminal conspiracy to overthrow the republic and establish a totalitarian state.

What do you mean "by it's stated ideology"? If all they've done is said they should rebel, let them. If they've directly said that they are going to overthrow the government, or there's evidence to suggest they'll try, that's different.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Cleverly done by Merkel, as her party being the mainstream right will probably absorb the fringe right votes on top of it.

It's the left which should be worried about this, as the party banned only carried ceremonial weight. If it looked to become a genuine contender then there would be an issue, but there's no way such would occur.

Why should the left be worried about anti-democratic parties being banned when the largest leftist party in Germany is democratic socialist?

[Crata]

Banning a political party simply for you dont agree with the, denys them the right to assembly.

That's not their problem. Their problem is them violating the Constitution. Every law they would pass violating the Constitution would be rendered null and void anyway, but the party's problem is not another party disliking them. As a matter of fact, even if it got 99% of popular support, it would still be unconstitutional.

[Trotskylvania]

The party in question, by its very nature and expressly stated ideology, is a criminal conspiracy to overthrow the republic and establish a totalitarian state.

What do you mean "by it's stated ideology"? If all they've done is said they should rebel, let them. If they've directly said that they are going to overthrow the government, or there's evidence to suggest they'll try, that's different.

They have. It's in the party's constitution. They are unreconstructed Nazis, and have made it quite clear they intend to abolish democracy if they ever take power.

[Kazarogkai]

If the government wants to prevent far-right ideologies from taking root, the better approach would be to tackle the core of the problem, rather than stifling them altogether. I thought Germany of all countries would have learned that.

The best way to destroy something is simply, to ignore them. Do not give them any attention for if you do give them attention then since they are attention whores that will only empower them. Example the tea party though they are few in numbers because they got so much attention they had a very big voice and way more power in proportion to their size as a whole.

[CTALNH]

Good also legalize and hand out death penalty to all their members....

[Zottistan]

What do you mean "by it's stated ideology"? If all they've done is said they should rebel, let them. If they've directly said that they are going to overthrow the government, or there's evidence to suggest they'll try, that's different.

They have. It's in the party's constitution. They are unreconstructed Nazis, and have made it quite clear they intend to abolish democracy if they ever take power.

If the people vote them into power knowing that they intend to remove democracy, the people have voted an end to democracy. Democracy demands that the people get what the people vote for. The bit I was interested in was the "criminal conspiracy" bit. Have they ever said that they plan to overthrow the government? Not the republic, but the governing body of the republic?