Germany To Ban Far-Right Political Party

[Lodricar]

Fair point. I didn't think Germany was doing too bad, though, at least in comparison to other countries.

Everyone in Europe isn't in a great spot right now.

The whole EU is being brought down by three or four in particular, and Greece isn't willing to stop being so liberal in allowing early retirement and great amounts of Social Security to be running into them.

[Zaras]

Eh, not really Hungarian opposition actually begged the West to intervene. They just wanted free and democratic elections and end to political repression organized by the socialists.

Because they naively thought that the West actually cared about freedom.

The official UN Special Committee on the Problem of Hungary report (1957) disagrees with your assessment. The report notes that the primary revolutionary force were the industrial workers of Hungary, who organized workers' councils in the industries, taking control of labor from the party apparatchiks for the express purpose of establishing a socialist economy free from party control (pp. 22). A new, anti-Soviet government was constituted by a coalition of four parties: Communist Party dissidents, the Social Democrats, the Independent Smallholders Party, and Petofi. The government "announced that the four parties were unanimously agreed to retain from the socialist achievements everything which could be used in a free, democratic and socialist country, in accordance with the will of the people" (pp. 24).

Hippo probably can't see that there's no contradiction between free elections and establishing a socialist society.

Democracy does indeed allow for antidemocracy.

It worked so well for the Weimar Republic.

Censoring beliefs is fundementally undemocratic.

Then why has it been done so often in the past? Why did Ireland have ridiculously draconian censorship? Why did the UK only abolish the censorship of theatre in the 1960s?

[Zaras]

The whole EU is being brought down by three or four in particular, and Greece isn't willing to stop being so liberal in allowing early retirement and great amounts of Social Security to be running into them.

And you're not willing to stop being uninformed about the situation enough to realise that Greece's welfare state by European standards is shitty and has nothing to do with its problems.

[Divair]

Everyone in Europe isn't in a great spot right now.

The whole EU is being brought down by three or four in particular, and Greece isn't willing to stop being so liberal in allowing early retirement and great amounts of Social Security to be running into them.

Greece's spending isn't the issue.

[Trotskylvania]

The Grundgesetz does not make the advocacy of the democratization/abolition of private property a criminal offense. They are free to advocate it all they want, just as the Free Democrats are free to advocate for the destruction of Germany's constitutionally enshrined welfare state.

The National Democrats, on the other hand, can be argued to be in violation of the Grundgesetz, because they are an anti-democratic Neo-Nazi party, the organization political advocacy of such is expressly banned by the Grundgesetz.

So advocation violation of certain rights is completely okay, but advocation of violation of some other rights is EEEEBULL!

Leftist logic...

The things you're talking about are not an irreducible minimum for a free society. Property rights are something established by the state, and are regulated as such. That's all part of democratic discourse. But you can't have democratic discourse if you have parties trying to overthrow the government and establish a totalitarian regime.

[Galloism]

Have the communist and nazi political parties within the US caused our democracy to cease to exist?

How many times have the US nazis attempted openly anticonstitutional political actions?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American ... #section_4

Well, they ran a paramilitary group for years, and shot some demonstrators, in alliance with the KKK.

But if you want to talk about openly unconstitutional political actions, one need look no further than the republican party.

[Tmutarakhan]

Far-right parties tend to become popular during depressions/recessions. I think it is just temporary.

Fair point. I didn't think Germany was doing too bad, though, at least in comparison to other countries.

In comparison to other countries in Europe, zero or slightly negative growth is not bad; in comparison to the world at large, it sucks.

[Conscentia]

See a mental health Doctor.

I'm pretty sure other people have better reasons to.
Someone with a broken leg may have a better reason to see a doctor than someone with broken finger. Doesn't mean the person with a broken finger shouldn't see a doctor.

Thou art going beyond getting used to it. Thou art encouraging it, which is an absurd thing to do.

It's less encouraging it, and more being surprised when it doesn't happen. I'm already pretty absurd.
"Your should", in response to someone saying that they do not hate you, is encouraging it.

Have you?
Beyond writing that you've "said" thing on a text based forum, i've not perceived any evidence to suggest that you are all that strange.

Slip of the tongue.
You haven't seen enough of what I've written then. (I'd add "you haven't met me", but honestly, that's probably just luck.)
More like slip of the fingers...

[Zottistan]

Democracy does indeed allow for antidemocracy.

It worked so well for the Weimar Republic.

Censoring beliefs is fundementally undemocratic.

Then why has it been done so often in the past? Why did Ireland have ridiculously draconian censorship? Why did the UK only abolish the censorship of theatre in the 1960s?

Again, the point isn't whether or not it works. The point is that if it restricts the expression of opinions, it's not democratic.

And the reason the UK and Ireland had so much censorship is because they weren't fundementally democratic.

[Caninope]

Have the communist and nazi political parties within the US caused our democracy to cease to exist?

How many times have the US nazis attempted openly anticonstitutional, antidemocratical political actions?

The US nazis seem quite tame if compared with their European counterparts.

Maybe our Nazis, yes, but we're quite content to let the KKK run loose.

[Zaras]

Someone with a broken leg may have a better reason to see a doctor than someone with broken finger. Doesn't mean the person with a broken finger shouldn't see a doctor.

I'd do it if I had a real problem instead of just being an emo prick sometimes. Some people have real problems 'n all that.

"Your should", in response to someone saying that they do not hate you, is encouraging it.

Meh. I can either go with it or encourage it. The latter tends to pop up when I'm feeling worse.

Again, the point isn't whether or not it works. The point is that if it restricts the expression of opinions, it's not democratic.

This isn't about restriction of opinions. There's nothing telling the Nazis they can't have their stupid opinions. This is about the fact that their party is being prosecuted for wanting to restrict everybody else's opinions.

And the reason the UK and Ireland had so much censorship is because they weren't fundementally democratic.

Yeah. Thankfully they've gotten better since.

[Nazi Germany Reborn]

>ban far-right political parties due to Nazism
>Nazism would've done the same to other parties
The irony...

[Zaras]

>ban far-right political parties due to Nazism
>Nazism would've done the same to other parties
The irony...

The irony of a player who in another thread posted stupid xenophobic bullshit talking about the irony of this.

(Hint, guy: London's crime rate has nothing to do with immigration.)

[Uiiop]

>ban far-right political parties due to Nazism
>Nazism would've done the same to other parties
The irony...

just like the irony of hating hate and killing murderers

[Zottistan]

Again, the point isn't whether or not it works. The point is that if it restricts the expression of opinions, it's not democratic.

This isn't about restriction of opinions. There's nothing telling the Nazis they can't have their stupid opinions. This is about the fact that their party is being prosecuted for wanting to restrict everybody else's opinions.

What's wrong with them wanting to? If the people vote for them, the people want everybody else's opinions to be restricted, too. And if the people want it, democracy demands that the people get it, no matter how much it'll fuck things up.

Yeah. Thankfully they've gotten better since.

I get that you're being sarcastic, but I don't see the punchline. Indeed they have gotten much better.

[Sulamalik]

This isn't about restriction of opinions. There's nothing telling the Nazis they can't have their stupid opinions. This is about the fact that their party is being prosecuted for wanting to restrict everybody else's opinions.

What's wrong with them wanting to? If the people vote for them, the people want everybody else's opinions to be restricted, too. And if the people want it, democracy demands that the people get it, no matter how much it'll fuck things up.

Yeah. Thankfully they've gotten better since.

I get that you're being sarcastic, but I don't see the punchline. Indeed they have gotten much better.

I'd rather not have a tyranny by majority though.

[Zaras]

What's wrong with them wanting to? If the people vote for them, the people want everybody else's opinions to be restricted, too. And if the people want it, democracy demands that the people get it, no matter how much it'll fuck things up.

I get that you're being sarcastic, but I don't see the punchline. Indeed they have gotten much better.

I'd rather not have a tyranny by majority though.

/\ What Sulamalik said.

I'm not being sarcastic. The UK and Ireland have gotten better. Ireland is no longer a third-rate theocratic shithole that resembles a European Iran like it used to be in the past.

[Olivaero]

This isn't about restriction of opinions. There's nothing telling the Nazis they can't have their stupid opinions. This is about the fact that their party is being prosecuted for wanting to restrict everybody else's opinions.

What's wrong with them wanting to? If the people vote for them, the people want everybody else's opinions to be restricted, too. And if the people want it, democracy demands that the people get it, no matter how much it'll fuck things up.

It's a good thing that no where in the world is a democracy then isn't it? Republic>Democracy any day of the week.

[Nazi Germany Reborn]

>ban far-right political parties due to Nazism
>Nazism would've done the same to other parties
The irony...

The irony of a player who in another thread posted stupid xenophobic bullshit talking about the irony of this.

That's not irony.

[Wintersun]

Banning far-right parties is a terrible idea, I mean come on we built camps just for those bastards

[Zottistan]

I'd rather not have a tyranny by majority though.

That's an undemocratic belief, as you're opposing the will of the people. I respect your right to hold undemocratic beliefs. That's a democratic belief, as I want the people to be exposed to your beliefs so the will of the people can be more accurately measured.

See? Democracy allows for undemocratic beliefs.

[Euronion]

oh yes, because that strategy has worked sooooooo well in the past. We all know how THAT helps foster freedom. Shame on you Germany.

[Zaras]

The irony of a player who in another thread posted stupid xenophobic bullshit talking about the irony of this.

That's not irony.

Yes, thanks for getting the irony of my statement. I was going for Alanis Morissette Irony. Much harder to achieve.

[Zaras]

I'd rather not have a tyranny by majority though.

That's an undemocratic belief, as you're opposing the will of the people.

Why shouldn't one oppose the will of the people if the will of the people is stupid?

Just because a majority believes something doesn't automatically mean that that thing they believe can't be 100% moronic. Like those dumb gay marriage bans in various US states.

See? Democracy allows for undemocratic beliefs.

Which end up making a mockery of democracy.

[Olivaero]

I'd rather not have a tyranny by majority though.

That's an undemocratic belief, as you're opposing the will of the people. I respect your right to hold undemocratic beliefs. That's a democratic belief, as I want the people to be exposed to your beliefs so the will of the people can be more accurately measured.

See? Democracy allows for undemocratic beliefs.

Republicanism however, doesn't, when the constitution specifically forbids said actions.