School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[THE GRAND STATE OF SINUKA]

this is a sad day for the USA, schools are not safe anymore.

[Camicon]

resonsible people produce magical ant-harm field? Fuck the guns, let's just get people who pay their taxes on time!

I didn't mean the magic part. What I meant is that bad things are less likely to happen where they are responsible people.

Yet, bad things still happen to responsible people. Like this school shooting. Are you going to tell me that these teachers were not responsible people, and that is why they died?

[Farnhamia]

Bad idea. You can get arrested for ''terroristic actions'' or something like that.

How is telling an intruder to get off your property terroristic?

Your weapon might terrify him?

[The Black Forrest]

How are you going to teach and keep an eye on the door? You going to carry the weapon around the room?

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

And who is watching the campus?

There are many factors. Kids not liking the gun, parents not liking the gun. The teacher being competent with the gun.

It's not the simple solution you think it is.....

[Farnhamia]

this is a sad day for the USA, schools are not safe anymore.

Anymore? Where have you been living since 1999?

[Neo Art]

resonsible people produce magical ant-harm field? Fuck the guns, let's just get people who pay their taxes on time!

I didn't mean the magic part. What I meant is that bad things are less likely to happen where they are responsible people.

Yes, I suppose that's true. And earlier this afternoon a very irresponsible person opened fire on a room full of people. Bad things don't happen until they do, what's your point?

[Gauntleted Fist]

The veterans should be in a class by themselves, they're semi-pro. Not fair to you amateurs.

It's a good thing most of them do actually have lives and other things to do, otherwise I would never win.

I live near Ft. Benning and Ft. Rucker so we're swarmed with veterans and active duty guys all the time. But I don't mind losing. They work a lot harder at it than I do.

[Ifreann]

How are you going to teach and keep an eye on the door? You going to carry the weapon around the room?

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

Or they "put down" a first responder trying to help or escape the gunman. Or a student trying to escape the gunman. But no, they're responsible, and responsible people aren't affected by extreme stress situations, and can sniff out bad guys who need shooting.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

What I want to know is why did the man even arrive at an elementary school and begin shooting? What makes a person get up one day and decide to attack children no older than 10 years old?

You'll drive yourself bonkers if you dwell on that side of it.

[Libertarian California]

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

Child goes up behind teacher, takes gun, oh dear, tragic shooting of some other kid in the newspaper.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

The first time you know there's a shooter on campus is when they shoot somebody. I also fail to see how a weapon would be of any advantage in this.

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

Because obviously, that is how it works. What will actually happen is that the shooter will simply stand somewhere not within direct fire of wherever the teacher is standing, and shoot away. Or grab some kid from elsewhere in the school (say, the classroom they shot up first), and bingo, human shield. You really think the teacher's going to shoot? Of course not. They will hesitate, and they will die.

Holsters can lock...And any teacher that lets a child take shouldn't be teaching. Also, the gun will be unloaded, only to be loaded in the presence of danger.


The first time you know there is a shooter on campus is when you see a guy with a gun walk into your school.

Shooters would not waste time tearing the down the barricade, because then the police would catch them. You mean to tell me the current system works?

[Neo Art]

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

Or they "put down" a first responder trying to help or escape the gunman. Or a student trying to escape the gunman. But no, they're responsible, and responsible people aren't affected by extreme stress situations, and can sniff out bad guys who need shooting.

ITGs, expert marksmen, trained survivalists, and can outmanuever an out of control automobile.

[Desperate Measures]

Why wouldn't it be legal? I think it's even legal to shoot the guy. I'm just saying I don't think it is right to shoot him.

I'm sorry, my blood sugar must be low or something but I thought bad things upon seeing "draw your weapon."

You don't know how many people I've kept from being in my house simply by drawing my weapon. It works. Sadly.

[Libertarian California]

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

Or they "put down" a first responder trying to help or escape the gunman. Or a student trying to escape the gunman. But no, they're responsible, and responsible people aren't affected by extreme stress situations, and can sniff out bad guys who need shooting.

Better than the current system where they get killed anyways.

[The Black Forrest]

this is a sad day for the USA, schools are not safe anymore.

Well?

How many schools are there in the US? Media coverage can make it sound like it happens everywhere.

It's not a new thing. First instance recorded was in the 1700s. I bet if we look at the statistics; there is probably a correlation with the size of the population over time.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Not really sure what that question has to do with my post...please feel free to elucidate.

I started writing that before you specified that you don't have a problem with target shooting. Your comment which I quoted implied to me that you took issue with target shooting; I guess I assumed incorrectly.

Fair enough I was struggling trying to grok your post...

To be honest I think it is a hard choice. For example the Aurora shooting (enclosed space, smoke, mass confusion) even an expert shooter (I mean like even in the top 100) would have a real struggle to not shoot an innocent. However in other situations, like Gifford, there is a good chance that one could do good. However the caveats are so massive than in no way can it be taken to mean that Joe "Sunday Target Range Shooter" Blow could or should get involved.

[Libertarian California]

I didn't mean the magic part. What I meant is that bad things are less likely to happen where they are responsible people.

Yes, I suppose that's true. And earlier this afternoon a very irresponsible person opened fire on a room full of people. Bad things don't happen until they do, what's your point?

My point is that a responsible person wouldn't kill innocent people, unless of course, by a freak accident.

[Ubermenschklippe]

If a psychopath opens fire on a group of people, and a bystander with target shooting experience puts a bullet in him sooner rather than later, it solves some problems. Do you deny it?

If someone with a gun is trained to stand still, draw aim, and hit a stationary target from a fixed distance away, opens fire on a moving target spraying bullets from a semi automatic rifle into a crowd, he's probably just as likely to hit a bystander as he is the actual shooter.

In fact, I'd say someone with a handgun and a bit of target practice might be MORE of a risk than no gun at all, because they might be inclined to think they're trained enough to open fire.

I object, sir, to the idea that someone can possibly not be trained enough to open fire with a handgun on someone who is already gunning down everyone around him with a semiautomatic rifle. Perhaps there is a risk of hitting an innocent, yes, but it must be considered that inaction is likely to result in the maniac continuing to gun down everyone. Or perhaps the bystander who happens to be holding a handgun should charge at the maniac and pistol whip him?

[The Zeonic States]

The veterans should be in a class by themselves, they're semi-pro. Not fair to you amateurs.

It's a good thing most of them do actually have lives and other things to do, otherwise I would never win.

I live near Ft. Benning and Ft. Rucker so we're swarmed with veterans and active duty guys all the time. But I don't mind losing. They work a lot harder at it than I do.

Maybe we could do a Hike or something I enjoy hiking i picked up the habit during training actually; All that marching and hiking just rubbed off on me and apart from the blisters and trench foot and heat and such it was a generally enjoyable time.

[Gauntleted Fist]

ITGs, expert marksmen, trained survivalists, and can outmanuever an out of control automobile.

It's really funny because you never see expert marksmen and trained survivalist bragging about how awesomely they would perform in a situation like this.

[Northern Dominus]

Look, I may have come out of the corner throwing haymakers a bit here, and I might have oversimplified things or buried a point or two.

Is it wrong to debate the consequences of firearms ownership and what could be done to prevent such a tragedy in the near future in many aspects including gun laws as well as campus security? No, and it should be debated, rationally. It would be unwise and frankly harmful if that debate didn't happen in some fashion.

However, I'm trying to get a couple of notions across as well. First, in the immediete aftermath of a tragedy like this, opinions and nerves get frayed really quickly, and debates of this nature, which already are hot-button enough, and generally the whole thing degrades into a shouting match of "no u" rather quickly.

I guess what I'm really asking is before you launch into the debate full-stop, please take a moment and do something to lend your support in some fashion to the village of Sandy Hook beforehand. There are plenty of places to make financial donations:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 02760.html

And as I mentioned there's always the direct option IE writing your condolences in some form and sending them to the community. A letter to the editor of the Newtown Bee:
http://newtownbee.com/services/sendContent.aspx
Or the Voices:
http://www.voicesnews.com/our_newspaper/contact_us/

That's all I ask. That before anyone launches themselves into the fray that they at least take the time to directly respond to the tragedy with support and caring in their own right. Debate is a good thing, but at the very least it shouldn't come at the expense of a potential moment of solidarity and empathy for people in pain and a community in shock.

[Neo Art]

Yes, I suppose that's true. And earlier this afternoon a very irresponsible person opened fire on a room full of people. Bad things don't happen until they do, what's your point?

My point is that a responsible person wouldn't kill innocent people, unless of course, by a freak accident.

Right, a responsible person wouldn't do that.

And earlier this afternoon a very irresponsible person opened fire on a room full of people. What's your point? If he were a responsible person, this wouldn't have happened. But he wasn't. and 30 people died.

[Ifreann]

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

And who is watching the campus?

There are many factors. Kids not liking the gun...

Kids liking the gun too much. Wouldn't be hard for, say, an 17 year old quarterback to take a gun from a 63 year old maths teacher half his size.

[Salandriagado]

Child goes up behind teacher, takes gun, oh dear, tragic shooting of some other kid in the newspaper.



The first time you know there's a shooter on campus is when they shoot somebody. I also fail to see how a weapon would be of any advantage in this.



Because obviously, that is how it works. What will actually happen is that the shooter will simply stand somewhere not within direct fire of wherever the teacher is standing, and shoot away. Or grab some kid from elsewhere in the school (say, the classroom they shot up first), and bingo, human shield. You really think the teacher's going to shoot? Of course not. They will hesitate, and they will die.

Holsters can lock...And any teacher that lets a child take shouldn't be teaching. Also, the gun will be unloaded, only to be loaded in the presence of danger.

Right. So now, this teacher is going to get all of the children barricaded into the classroom, unlock the holster, get the ammo, load the gun, take aim and fire faster than the attacker? No chance in hell.

The first time you know there is a shooter on campus is when you see a guy with a gun walk into your school.

Because obviously, they walk in waving guns around shouting "I'm going to shoot somebody" at the top of their voices. You might want to note that this guy was let through the security by the security staff, because they recognised him.

Shooters would not waste time tearing the down the barricade, because then the police would catch them. You mean to tell me the current system works?

They don't need to tear down the barricade, and they don't, generally, tend to be planning on leaving the school. I'd love to hear how you're going to make classroom doors/windows bulletproof with nothing to work with but a room full of classroom equipment and a bunch of eight year olds.

[Farnhamia]

I started writing that before you specified that you don't have a problem with target shooting. Your comment which I quoted implied to me that you took issue with target shooting; I guess I assumed incorrectly.

Fair enough I was struggling trying to grok your post...

To be honest I think it is a hard choice. For example the Aurora shooting (enclosed space, smoke, mass confusion) even an expert shooter (I mean like even in the top 100) would have a real struggle to not shoot an innocent. However in other situations, like Gifford, there is a good chance that one could do good. However the caveats are so massive than in no way can it be taken to mean that Joe "Sunday Target Range Shooter" Blow could or should get involved.

There was an armed person at the Giffords shooting. I forget if he's heard the shots or simply walked out of one of the stores to see the aftermath, but he started to draw his weapon until he realized he'd be drawing on the people subduing the gunman. Someone less clear-headed might have added to the tragedy.

[Inky Noodles]

It's stunning to see that people would immediately bring politics into a tragedy like what happened on the first page of this thread.