School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[Gun Manufacturers]

Why would the safe be open in the first place, unless there is an incident or during training?

Because schools are just chockfull of students who don't spend a large amount of time breaking things, right?

Then you don't tell the students about it.

Besides, when those safes are secured to something large, they're difficult to get open without tools (like crowbars, sledgehammers, etc). They are after all, designed to be tough for safe firearms storage.

[NERVUN]

Because schools are just chockfull of students who don't spend a large amount of time breaking things, right?

Then you don't tell the students about it.

Besides, when those safes are secured to something large, they're difficult to get open without tools (like crowbars, sledgehammers, etc). They are after all, designed to be tough for safe firearms storage.

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

[Gun Manufacturers]

Why would the safe be open in the first place, unless there is an incident or during training?

It would be open, ex potentia, because people are in general screwups. Sooner or later somebody is going to make a mistake, and thats human nature. The issue is human mistakes with harmful or lethal devices around children tend to be exacerbated in a hurry because children, as is their nature, are inquisitive. Those two facets of human nature combined with those devices is a recipe for disaster in some fashion.

If it's in the right location (in a closet, in a desk drawer, etc), then the students may never know about it. And part of the training can be to make sure the safe is locked at all times, and only open in an emergency.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Then you don't tell the students about it.

Besides, when those safes are secured to something large, they're difficult to get open without tools (like crowbars, sledgehammers, etc). They are after all, designed to be tough for safe firearms storage.

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

S1: "What's in the Safe?"
T: "Nothing, Hideo. Now focus on the lesson. Kids, what is 5+4?"
S2: "9. What's in the safe?"
T: "Nanako, you don't need to worry about that. You are right the answer is 9. What's 5+6?"
S3: "11. I think there's eggs in the safe."
T: "Yuri-chan, there aren't eggs in the safe, you-"
S4: "Are there coins in the safe?"
T: "No, I-"
S1: "I bet it's treasure."

[Gun Manufacturers]

Then you don't tell the students about it.

Besides, when those safes are secured to something large, they're difficult to get open without tools (like crowbars, sledgehammers, etc). They are after all, designed to be tough for safe firearms storage.

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

Did you see the safe I was recommending? It's small enough to fit in a large desk drawer, or a filing cabinet. If the kids don't know about, they won't get curios about it.

[Trotskylvania]

It would be open, ex potentia, because people are in general screwups. Sooner or later somebody is going to make a mistake, and thats human nature. The issue is human mistakes with harmful or lethal devices around children tend to be exacerbated in a hurry because children, as is their nature, are inquisitive. Those two facets of human nature combined with those devices is a recipe for disaster in some fashion.

If it's in the right location (in a closet, in a desk drawer, etc), then the students may never know about it. And part of the training can be to make sure the safe is locked at all times, and only open in an emergency.

Chances are, you won't be able to get to or open such a safe in an emergency, so why even have it. Most high schools have at least one police liaison on duty during the day, who is much better trained to deal with these kinds of threats. I say we let the man do his job.

[The UK in Exile]

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

Did you see the safe I was recommending? It's small enough to fit in a large desk drawer.

lord knows, desk drawers are beyond the ken of das (die, der?) kinder.

[Gun Manufacturers]

If it's in the right location (in a closet, in a desk drawer, etc), then the students may never know about it. And part of the training can be to make sure the safe is locked at all times, and only open in an emergency.

Chances are, you won't be able to get to or open such a safe in an emergency, so why even have it. Most high schools have at least one police liaison on duty during the day, who is much better trained to deal with these kinds of threats. I say we let the man do his job.

The safe I recommended has a biometric lock on it. A person can open it by placing their finger on the sensor.

[NERVUN]

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

Did you see the safe I was recommending? It's small enough to fit in a large desk drawer.

I hate to tell you this, but even in Japan we have had issues with students getting into the teacher's desks.

Kids get EVERYWHERE. It's the nature of children. Even things that they aren't supposed to know about, they know about. We had to move the master key this year for my school because by the end of last school year, every student knew where the hell it was, even though it was in a locked closet, inside a locked case. They STILL got into it.

To secure it enough to make sure that we wouldn't have to worry about students getting it, it would be to the point that it would become pointless because, as mentioned in the other thread, I sure as hell ain't gonna abandon my students in the middle of an emergency to go to a weapon's locker to get something in the hopes of playing Dirty Harry.

[Salandriagado]

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

Did you see the safe I was recommending? It's small enough to fit in a large desk drawer, or a filing cabinet. If the kids don't know about, they won't get curios about it.

I'm pretty sure that if you pick a random classroom, every single kid in there will know exactly what is in those draws. I did when I was that age.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Did you see the safe I was recommending? It's small enough to fit in a large desk drawer.

lord knows, desk drawers are beyond the ken of das (die, der?) kinder.

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

[The UK in Exile]

lord knows, desk drawers are beyond the ken of das (die, der?) kinder.

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

[Trotskylvania]

Chances are, you won't be able to get to or open such a safe in an emergency, so why even have it. Most high schools have at least one police liaison on duty during the day, who is much better trained to deal with these kinds of threats. I say we let the man do his job.

The safe I recommended has a biometric lock on it. A person can open it by placing their finger on the sensor.

Sounds expensive. An awful huge expense so some unprepared teacher has a tiny chance of playing Dirty Harry if there's a violent intruder in the school.

[Northern Dominus]

It would be open, ex potentia, because people are in general screwups. Sooner or later somebody is going to make a mistake, and thats human nature. The issue is human mistakes with harmful or lethal devices around children tend to be exacerbated in a hurry because children, as is their nature, are inquisitive. Those two facets of human nature combined with those devices is a recipe for disaster in some fashion.

If it's in the right location (in a closet, in a desk drawer, etc), then the students may never know about it. And part of the training can be to make sure the safe is locked at all times, and only open in an emergency.

...you do realize that the only thing more inquisitive and nosy than a child is a mother-in-law who is desperate for grandkids right? They're kids, they're inquisitive by nature and don't know any better or have the trepidation of adults because they don't have the experience of "gee, whatever's in this locked box might not be something I want to get into".

There is no such thing as a "safely hidden" anything in a classroom, kids will find it, especially if there's been a screwup and that supposedly "secure" safe is open somehow.

Moreover, teachers are already overburdened enough without having to add "training with a taser and pepper spray" to their already busy schedules.

[NERVUN]

lord knows, desk drawers are beyond the ken of das (die, der?) kinder.

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

Because we never, ever, leave the rooms right? I mean, I sleep in my damn classroom, I never have a bathroom break, never get called to a meeting, and there is never, ever, any kind of emergency.

Oh, BTW, http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/gun-safes/

[Northern Dominus]

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

Because we never, ever, leave the rooms right? I mean, I sleep in my damn classroom, I never have a bathroom break, never get called to a meeting, and there is never, ever, any kind of emergency.

Oh, BTW, http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/gun-safes/

Oh come on. You "work" for 8 hours a day playing with kids then you take 3 months off out of the year and still get paid for it! Surely you can find some time to familiarize yourself with a less-lethal device and then find a creative way to store it.

...just paraphrasing the macho comeback without the subtly. It is patently ridiculous to foist some sort of requirement to keep a firearm or less lethal defensive device in the classroom on teachers when they're overburdened enough already.

No, the best solution would be to have regular police presence in some fashion, during school hours whether it's an officer in the school itself or in a patrol outside. But of course that takes tax dollars...and of course the macho grandstanding bunch that is the Cult of the Gun will be deprived of their chance to be local heroes. You know since they weren't fit for military or police duty after all.

[Typhlochactas]

Just get CO's. No need to give the teachers guns.

[Chronic Hypersomnia]

... So your idea is to put a safe in every classroom and somehow you think that the students WON'T get curious about it?

Seriously, have you ever worked with school kids?

S1: "What's in the Safe?"
T: "Nothing, Hideo. Now focus on the lesson. Kids, what is 5+4?"
S2: "9. What's in the safe?"
T: "Nanako, you don't need to worry about that. You are right the answer is 9. What's 5+6?"
S3: "11. I think there's eggs in the safe."
T: "Yuri-chan, there aren't eggs in the safe, you-"
S4: "Are there coins in the safe?"
T: "No, I-"
S1: "I bet it's treasure."

Ohhh boy, I luv treasure!

[Gun Manufacturers]

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

So, once the bell rings, teachers become oblivious?

[Gun Manufacturers]

The safe I recommended has a biometric lock on it. A person can open it by placing their finger on the sensor.

Sounds expensive. An awful huge expense so some unprepared teacher has a tiny chance of playing Dirty Harry if there's a violent intruder in the school.

Dirty Harry didn't use a taser or pepper spray.

[Gauthier]

The safe I recommended has a biometric lock on it. A person can open it by placing their finger on the sensor.

Sounds expensive. An awful huge expense so some unprepared teacher has a tiny chance of playing Dirty Harry if there's a violent intruder in the school.

It's hilarious the same people who insist teachers get paid too much and want to dismantle public education in favor of private tutoring are suddenly demanding that every single classroom come packed with a safe and firearm. After all, putting safes and guns not to mention training people to use them are going to cost MONEY.

[Northern Dominus]

Sounds expensive. An awful huge expense so some unprepared teacher has a tiny chance of playing Dirty Harry if there's a violent intruder in the school.

Dirty Harry didn't use a taser or pepper spray.

Dirty Harry is also a fictional character.

He occupies the same fictional realm in which teachers being armed with anything in the classroom is even a remotely sane idea.

[Tmutarakhan]

Well, I think a teacher would notice a kid rifling through their desk during class lessons.

Because we never, ever, leave the rooms right?

Except for the hours you spend at the shooting range getting properly trained for when you have to play Dirty Harry *nod*

[Alien Space Bats]

What is this fascination with the myth that a Wild West environment chock full of guns would reduce violent crimes? After all there's a reason it was called the Wild West.

Probably because per capita, there were fewer crimes in the Wild West.

I'm not saying we should go back there. Just that that's why.

I'd like proof of this assertion, if you don't mind.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Probably because per capita, there were fewer crimes in the Wild West.

I'm not saying we should go back there. Just that that's why.

I'd like proof of this assertion, if you don't mind.

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and
Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
In
Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)

New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)

Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)

Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)