School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[Gun Manufacturers]

Who was more mentally disturbed---the boy with autism or the mother who had 4 guns including an assault rifle, and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. If she only had a pistol for personal protection would this massacre have taken place?

It wasn't an assault rifle (it wasn't full auto/select fire), nor was it an assault weapon (CT has an Assault Weapons ban in place since 1993).

Just because she had 4 firearms, doesn't mean she's mentally disturbed. She could have been a target shooter and hunter.

[Homosexy]

I was watching the news on CNN last night and this woman (the newscaster) kept trying to make the mom seem like a drunk gun slinger. She kept repeating over and over again that she owned guns and would take the boys shooting, and that she hung out at a bar (which the people she was interviewing kept saying over and over again: she came in for food and to talk to us). It was ridiculous. Just because you own guns and teach your kids to shoot at targets doesn't mean you raise people who go and shoot children.

And after finding out the shooter had aspergers, I'm not sure that I'm convinced the shooter was mentally ill to the point of shooting children. My brother has aspergers and used to have severe autism, so I know what I'm talking about, and although he sometimes acts out, it would never be as bad as that.

I really honestly think that a lot of these shootings are seriously a result of the upbringing that kids are getting nowadays, what with the not counting score at soccer games as a kid, and making sure everything is nice and fair, even stopping the bullying that some kids do to each other. Then these kids go out into the real world and see that life isn't fair, and they get upset, and end up pulling stunts like this. I've seen it, in my friends who weren't raised the way I was, and they absolutely flip because they did not get the job and "that's just not fair".

[Homosexy]

Also, I don't know if someone else has addressed this, but why don't we give a capable person on school campuses a gun so that they can shoot back if something like this happens?

I feel like people that I talk to about this are trying to be so politically correct when it comes to this.
Stop the guns! blah blah blah.

But what is that going to do? What'll happen then is that the criminals will get their hands on the guns, and where will we be left? Without guns to defend ourselves. It's not the guns that kill people, it's the person pulling the trigger.

[Sdaeriji]

Also, I don't know if someone else has addressed this, but why don't we give a capable person on school campuses a gun so that they can shoot back if something like this happens?

I feel like people that I talk to about this are trying to be so politically correct when it comes to this.
Stop the guns! blah blah blah.

But what is that going to do? What'll happen then is that the criminals will get their hands on the guns, and where will we be left? Without guns to defend ourselves. It's not the guns that kill people, it's the person pulling the trigger.

Most middle schools and high schools will have an armed police officer present on the campus. Elementary schools do so less frequently.

[Homosexy]

Also, I don't know if someone else has addressed this, but why don't we give a capable person on school campuses a gun so that they can shoot back if something like this happens?

I feel like people that I talk to about this are trying to be so politically correct when it comes to this.
Stop the guns! blah blah blah.

But what is that going to do? What'll happen then is that the criminals will get their hands on the guns, and where will we be left? Without guns to defend ourselves. It's not the guns that kill people, it's the person pulling the trigger.

Most middle schools and high schools will have an armed police officer present on the campus. Elementary schools do so less frequently.

Mine didn't. Which is interesting. I think that all of the schools should have an armed police officer or something of the sort on campus, elementary schools included.

[Frisivisia]

Also, I don't know if someone else has addressed this, but why don't we give a capable person on school campuses a gun so that they can shoot back if something like this happens?

I feel like people that I talk to about this are trying to be so politically correct when it comes to this.
Stop the guns! blah blah blah.

But what is that going to do? What'll happen then is that the criminals will get their hands on the guns, and where will we be left? Without guns to defend ourselves. It's not the guns that kill people, it's the person pulling the trigger.

Because kindergarteners should have access to firearms every time the teacher goes to the bathroom. Good job, now you've got MORE dangerous schools, not less.

Also, guns don't stop violence, they escalate it.

[Homosexy]

Also, I don't know if someone else has addressed this, but why don't we give a capable person on school campuses a gun so that they can shoot back if something like this happens?

I feel like people that I talk to about this are trying to be so politically correct when it comes to this.
Stop the guns! blah blah blah.

But what is that going to do? What'll happen then is that the criminals will get their hands on the guns, and where will we be left? Without guns to defend ourselves. It's not the guns that kill people, it's the person pulling the trigger.

Because kindergarteners should have access to firearms every time the teacher goes to the bathroom. Good job, now you've got MORE dangerous schools, not less.

Also, guns don't stop violence, they escalate it.

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

[Godwinsplot]

Equals, when your society starts blasting its own children it's time to think again.

Do it.

[AntiSwagLand]

Because kindergarteners should have access to firearms every time the teacher goes to the bathroom. Good job, now you've got MORE dangerous schools, not less.

Also, guns don't stop violence, they escalate it.

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

That is true. Good, resposible people would not be able to defend them selves at all. If you outlaw it, only outlaws will have it. Look at the prohibition

[Chronic Hypersomnia]

Equals, when your society starts blasting its own children it's time to think again.

Do it.

I don't understand.

[Frisivisia]

Because kindergarteners should have access to firearms every time the teacher goes to the bathroom. Good job, now you've got MORE dangerous schools, not less.

Also, guns don't stop violence, they escalate it.

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

So, your solution, instead of say, making it so that someone with a mentally disabled person in their house couldn't have a gun where that mentally disabled person could get to it, which would have stopped this shooting, not denied anyone their rights, and would have been sensible, you want to post armed guards in schools so that we have ANOTHER shooter in the chaotic classroom. Absolutely makes sense.

[Frisivisia]

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

That is true. Good, resposible people would not be able to defend them selves at all. If you outlaw it, only outlaws will have it. Look at the prohibition

Good job using the same NRA-mandated line that all the other right-wingers used, but you'll find that when you outlaw guns, yes only outlaws have them, but shootings just don't occur that much.

[Chronic Hypersomnia]

Because kindergarteners should have access to firearms every time the teacher goes to the bathroom. Good job, now you've got MORE dangerous schools, not less.

Also, guns don't stop violence, they escalate it.

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

Only if those guns are shooting peas.

Children loves peas. Wait...

[Northern Dominus]

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

If you outlaw it, only outlaws will have it. Look at the prohibition

Oh yes, and we're doing so well with our "regulation" these days. Only 15 of the 25 worst mass shootings over the last 50 years IE 60%, so we're doing so well for ourselves.

Maybe abolition isn't the best option right now, but ignoring the problem we have with firearms in this country and burdening on means that more innocent people are going to pay for that "freedom" in blood. The Cult of the Gun (which you may or may not be a part of, I don't know), may be okay with more children being killed in cold blood at the end of a barrel, but with any luck this tragedy is the tipping point, the moment where a nation realizes that a tool has been elevated to an unnaturally holy status and really should be brought down off of the plinth.

[AntiSwagLand]

That is true. Good, resposible people would not be able to defend them selves at all. If you outlaw it, only outlaws will have it. Look at the prohibition

Good job using the same NRA-mandated line that all the other right-wingers used, but you'll find that when you outlaw guns, yes only outlaws have them, but shootings just don't occur that much.

Perhaps not as often, but still, it would be possible. But in the same time, you don't need a gun to commit murder. This whole thing could have been done with 2 sticks & a rock, so you may as well ban all non-nerf items.

Believe me, I'm not a gun nut and/or kissing every square inch of the NRA's a**, but I don't believe that making something illegal solves the problem.

[Godwinsplot]

Equals, when your society starts blasting its own children it's time to think again.
Do it.

I don't understand.

Equal. The society that raised the killer supported 'The right to bare arms'. Therefore you must all take your collective share of the blame, plan how to remove guns and remember the dead.

[Frisivisia]

Good job using the same NRA-mandated line that all the other right-wingers used, but you'll find that when you outlaw guns, yes only outlaws have them, but shootings just don't occur that much.

Perhaps not as often, but still, it would be possible. But in the same time, you don't need a gun to commit murder. This whole thing could have been done with 2 sticks & a rock, so you may as well ban all non-nerf items.

Believe me, I'm not a gun nut and/or kissing every square inch of the NRA's a**, but I don't believe that making something illegal solves the problem.

Yes, but guns succeed in making it impersonal and easy. Good luck killing a class of schoolchildren with that rock. Guns succeed in making it impersonal, you don't have to wonder "what have I done?" while you're killing, as you do with a machete, or a rock, or two sticks, but only after, after the noise and confusion, only after, do you wonder.

[AntiSwagLand]

Perhaps not as often, but still, it would be possible. But in the same time, you don't need a gun to commit murder. This whole thing could have been done with 2 sticks & a rock, so you may as well ban all non-nerf items.

Believe me, I'm not a gun nut and/or kissing every square inch of the NRA's a**, but I don't believe that making something illegal solves the problem.

Yes, but guns succeed in making it impersonal and easy. Good luck killing a class of schoolchildren with that rock. Guns succeed in making it impersonal, you don't have to wonder "what have I done?" while you're killing, as you do with a machete, or a rock, or two sticks, but only after, after the noise and confusion, only after, do you wonder.

They do make it easier, I agree. But what do you do when people like this still get their hands on them? Guns can still be snuck in from across the border or just bought off the black market. How do you stop all that 100% ?

[Northern Dominus]

Good job using the same NRA-mandated line that all the other right-wingers used, but you'll find that when you outlaw guns, yes only outlaws have them, but shootings just don't occur that much.

Perhaps not as often, but still, it would be possible. But in the same time, you don't need a gun to commit murder. This whole thing could have been done with 2 sticks & a rock, so you may as well ban all non-nerf items.

Believe me, I'm not a gun nut and/or kissing every square inch of the NRA's a**, but I don't believe that making something illegal solves the problem.

Except not really. See, "sticks and rocks" to use your terminology, can be used as weapons, but they not only require some degree of strength and skill to be used as such they also require uninhibited movement and time to land a deadly blow. Adam Lamza might have been focused and in the grip of some terrible madness that few could really understand, but he wasn't that big and burly and most likely could have been wrestled to the ground before killing 27 people with "sticks and rocks".

A firearm is a device designed to make the act of killing virtually effortless in the face of most other methods available to non-military people who don't want to risk blowing themselves up with some kind of homeade bomb or burn themselves alive by starting a fire. It does not matter what the use for that firearm is intended to be, every firearm is a device that uses explosive propellant to fire a metal projectile at high speeds out of a barrel that is designed not only to impart force to that projectile but in many firearms improve accuracy.

The fact that Adam Lamza had access to multiple firearms at his home courtesy of his mother, described as a gun "enthusiast" and a survivalist, is the reason why he was able to murder 20 young children and 7 adults, including his mother. Once a person has a firearm of any kind, their ability to kill is significantly multiplied. The fact that he wouldn't have been able to have access to firearms on his own but still was able to speaks to a severe defecit of firearms ownership responsibility in this country. Perhaps if Nancy Lamza had kept trigger locks on every single firearm and never revealed the location of the keys, perhaps if she had stored the ammunition in a safe and never released the code, if she had done ANYTHING to slow down or impede Adam Lamza's acquisition of firearms, this tragedy might have been averted.

This was not the case, and now we're left with an uncomfortable and ugly but harsh truth; that the firearm has been elevated to such a lofty position because of a Cult of Guns around it that we're now being killed by the very object that this Cult worships so dearly. Using petty excuses of "it could have happened anyway" or "only criminals will have guns" and other petulant one-liners is doing nothing but paving the way for the death toll to continue.

I for one am tired for paying for our nations immaturity with blood. This has to stop.

[Koraka]

I didn't say the teacher. Just someone capable. Maybe put an emergency button in the classrooms that only the teachers know about so that that person can be summoned there if there's an issue.

Obviously, this is true, but taking away guns from citizens who would use them to defend themselves isn't helping anything, I don't think. It just ends up that there's a bunch of criminals out there who don't give a shit about gun control, just like they don't care about the law against murder, putting a gun in your face, and you can do nothing about it, where before you might have a gun to kill them before they kill you.

So, your solution, instead of say, making it so that someone with a mentally disabled person in their house couldn't have a gun where that mentally disabled person could get to it, which would have stopped this shooting, not denied anyone their rights, and would have been sensible, you want to post armed guards in schools so that we have ANOTHER shooter in the chaotic classroom. Absolutely makes sense.

I've noticed you're arguements are you repeating "If we have people gaurding, they're just going to cause more chaos."
You wouldn't be giving weapons to inexperienced people, you'd give them to trained professionals (or cops, whatever the school could afford). Since this is an elementary school that we're talking about, it wouldn't be difficult to tell who the shooter was.

P.s. Banning something, never gets rid of it. I don't think someone's going to worry about buying banned guns, when they're going to kill multiple people with it.

[AntiSwagLand]

Perhaps not as often, but still, it would be possible. But in the same time, you don't need a gun to commit murder. This whole thing could have been done with 2 sticks & a rock, so you may as well ban all non-nerf items.

Believe me, I'm not a gun nut and/or kissing every square inch of the NRA's a**, but I don't believe that making something illegal solves the problem.

Except not really. See, "sticks and rocks" to use your terminology, can be used as weapons, but they not only require some degree of strength and skill to be used as such they also require uninhibited movement and time to land a deadly blow. Adam Lamza might have been focused and in the grip of some terrible madness that few could really understand, but he wasn't that big and burly and most likely could have been wrestled to the ground before killing 27 people with "sticks and rocks".

A firearm is a device designed to make the act of killing virtually effortless in the face of most other methods available to non-military people who don't want to risk blowing themselves up with some kind of homeade bomb or burn themselves alive by starting a fire. It does not matter what the use for that firearm is intended to be, every firearm is a device that uses explosive propellant to fire a metal projectile at high speeds out of a barrel that is designed not only to impart force to that projectile but in many firearms improve accuracy.

The fact that Adam Lamza had access to multiple firearms at his home courtesy of his mother, described as a gun "enthusiast" and a survivalist, is the reason why he was able to murder 20 young children and 7 adults, including his mother. Once a person has a firearm of any kind, their ability to kill is significantly multiplied. The fact that he wouldn't have been able to have access to firearms on his own but still was able to speaks to a severe defecit of firearms ownership responsibility in this country. Perhaps if Nancy Lamza had kept trigger locks on every single firearm and never revealed the location of the keys, perhaps if she had stored the ammunition in a safe and never released the code, if she had done ANYTHING to slow down or impede Adam Lamza's acquisition of firearms, this tragedy might have been averted.

This was not the case, and now we're left with an uncomfortable and ugly but harsh truth; that the firearm has been elevated to such a lofty position because of a Cult of Guns around it that we're now being killed by the very object that this Cult worships so dearly. Using petty excuses of "it could have happened anyway" or "only criminals will have guns" and other petulant one-liners is doing nothing but paving the way for the death toll to continue.

I for one am tired for paying for our nations immaturity with blood. This has to stop.

Once more, how can you prevent 100% of the people from owning guns?

[Chronic Hypersomnia]

Yes, but guns succeed in making it impersonal and easy. Good luck killing a class of schoolchildren with that rock. Guns succeed in making it impersonal, you don't have to wonder "what have I done?" while you're killing, as you do with a machete, or a rock, or two sticks, but only after, after the noise and confusion, only after, do you wonder.

They do make it easier, I agree. But what do you do when people like this still get their hands on them? Guns can still be snuck in from across the border or just bought off the black market. How do you stop all that 100% ?

>Implying a 20-year-old nerdy psycho boy knows how to smuggle in guns to shoot a school up.

[Tubbsalot]

I've noticed you're arguements are you repeating "If we have people gaurding, they're just going to cause more chaos."
You wouldn't be giving weapons to inexperienced people, you'd give them to trained professionals (or cops, whatever the school could afford). Since this is an elementary school that we're talking about, it wouldn't be difficult to tell who the shooter was.

I'm not sure if you understand exactly what's going on with American finances, but I can assure you that hiring a minimum of two guards per school (one is just going to be immediately targeted and killed) is not going to be cheap.

P.s. Banning something, never gets rid of it.

Except that in most of the first world, where we've banned guns, guns have pretty much disappeared from general circulation. So you're not quite right.

[AntiSwagLand]

They do make it easier, I agree. But what do you do when people like this still get their hands on them? Guns can still be snuck in from across the border or just bought off the black market. How do you stop all that 100% ?

>Implying a 20-year-old nerdy psycho boy knows how to smuggle in guns to shoot a school up.

Guns as deadly as assault rifles come in sizes suitable to hide in lunchboxes, coats and backpacks. They're easier to hide than excitement in public. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[Crogach]

I feel like while we do need to have some sort of conversation about regulation of firearm access, that's maybe the second or the third one down the list and our primary focus should be on taking a much closer look at our mental health services and the degree of support that we provide to families with seriously mentally ill children.