School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[Typhlochactas]

Think really hard, I'm positive you'll pick it up.

No, I understand exactly what the acronym means. I'm just wondering why an ad hom is a proper response to anything.

[The UK in Exile]

Umm. I don't think their objective is to get killed.

No, but getting killed would simply validate their worldview. It would be the ultimate expression of martyrdom.

we don't care about their worldview. we just want them off our lawn. with lawn being a euphemism for planet.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Think really hard, I'm positive you'll pick it up.

No, I understand exactly what the acronym means. I'm just wondering why an ad hom is a proper response to anything.

Interesting, you seem to assume that because I bring up a situation where killing someone started an entire religion, I'm attacking you.

HOLY SHIT ARE YOU JESUS?

[Typhlochactas]

No, I understand exactly what the acronym means. I'm just wondering why an ad hom is a proper response to anything.

Interesting, you seem to assume that because I bring up a situation where killing someone started an entire religion, I'm attacking you.

HOLY SHIT ARE YOU JESUS?

I think you're the one with attention problems.

I was clearly referring to your last two posts. I gave a response, and you said I had an attention deficit. Then you followed it up with condescension.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Interesting, you seem to assume that because I bring up a situation where killing someone started an entire religion, I'm attacking you.

HOLY SHIT ARE YOU JESUS?

I think you're the one with attention problems.

I was clearly referring to your last two posts. I gave a response, and you said I had an attention deficit. Then you followed it up with condescension.

AD doesn't stand for Attention Deficit.

It stands for Anno Domini. In The Year of Our Lord?

[Coccygia]

Why even bother to discuss this - all the blather and bloviation will change nothing. Within a year or so it will happen again.

[JuNii]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/protest-westboro-baptist-church-erupts-185802032.html

guess the Batshit church can't stand other people getting the spotlight...

for the first time, I'm actually rooting for Anonymous.

We already had a whole thread about the Phelpses wanting to stick their noses in; it got locked because of a few too many suggestions that it was time to shoot them.

ah, missed that... apologies...

[The Emerald Dawn]

Why even bother to discuss this - all the blather and bloviation will change nothing. Within a year or so it will happen again.

Because some of us think it can change, if everyone puts enough pressure on the blathering idiots in charge?

[Typhlochactas]

I think you're the one with attention problems.

I was clearly referring to your last two posts. I gave a response, and you said I had an attention deficit. Then you followed it up with condescension.

AD doesn't stand for Attention Deficit.

It stands for Anno Domini. In The Year of Our Lord?

It stands for both. Maybe you should stop making very vague posts in the future.

[Northern Dominus]

Fuck me, how do you get out of bed every morning without looking in the mirror, realize you're the subject of a particular Green Day Song from the mid 90s, then go right back into bed?

But really, veteran myself, do as much work as I can for Wounded Warriors. It's good that you know you're not alone.

Seriously, I wake up, I look at the mirror, and then I just curl into a demi-fetal position in my wheelchair until my wife carts me to work where I'm forced to be productive by "the man".

Yeah well you can always give "the man" a middle finger....in your mind! Right? Right?

Speaking of work, I wasn't sure if I wanted to share this, but since we seem to be losing a bit of perspective and become a bit detached around here it bears on the conversation.

So as some of you may or may not know, I work for the Shedd Aquarium in a variety of capacities. One of those capacities is being a guide for local school groups that take annual field trips to the Shedd. Over my tenure so far I've gotten familiar with a few of the teachers and harbor a genuine admiration for the work they do and their enthusiasm for the job, and it shows when they come through with their classes that are excited not only to be out of the classroom but to learn as well.

Today was a slow day, not many visitors and there wasn't some sort of crisis that needed an extra set of hands, so I was in one of the exhibit halls of the original building, alone, when I started crying. A thought had come through my brain then, unbidden while looking at one of the tanks idly; what if that had been one of those teachers and their classes full of smiling students? What if it was that class with one of those teachers that would never get the chance to have one of those field trips? It was so bad that I literally had to lean against the coping of one of the tanks, something that's discouraged to the guests, to get control again.

In all the rancor, it's easy for some people to forget that there's a very painfully human side to this entire story, and it would behoove everyone to perhaps act in a compassionate manner, if only for a moment, towards the residents of Sandy Hook, and show them that they may be a small village in the eastern US but they're still part of their extended American and even world family.

If you have the means, you can donate to a United Way fund for the victims:
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Newt ... 022UJodt2o

And a former student has set up a relief fund of their own as well:
http://www.crowdrise.com/SHSRelief

Even words of empathy and support can help victims, and the best place to offer them would be the Newtown Bee in a letter to the editor:
http://newtownbee.com/services/sendContent.aspx

Obviously the issues at hand have to be discussed, and they should in a sensible and mature fashion. However, never forget that this discussion is taking place over a very real and very painful event for not just the survivors but most of a country, and I can only speak for myself but it would be remiss of me if we didn't as a community take care of those who are in the most pain in some fashion, even if we might have disagreements with each other.

[The Emerald Dawn]

AD doesn't stand for Attention Deficit.

It stands for Anno Domini. In The Year of Our Lord?

It stands for both. Maybe you should stop making very vague posts in the future.

Alternately, you could try using context to increase your likelihood of understanding the conversation.

[Typhlochactas]

It stands for both. Maybe you should stop making very vague posts in the future.

Alternately, you could try using context to increase your likelihood of understanding the conversation.

It seemed plausible to me that you were trying to insult me, considering that we were never talking about the Gregorian or Julian calenders. A comment about the latin meaning of 'the year of our lord' would just be off the wall.

My post said that getting martyred does not validate views, and that I never said getting them killed is a good way of making things even. Can you explain why the meaning of 'AD' would have any relevance to that?

[The Emerald Dawn]

Alternately, you could try using context to increase your likelihood of understanding the conversation.

It seemed plausible to me that you were trying to insult me, considering that we were never talking about the Gregorian or Julian calenders. A comment about the latin meaning of 'the year of our lord' would just be off the wall.

My post said that getting martyred does not validate views, and that I never said getting them killed is a good way of making things even. Can you explain why the meaning of 'AD' would have any relevance to that?

Sure. Jesus was nailed to a tree, and now we have the past 2-ish thousand years of history.

Religion is "off the wall", and your statement that killing people never validated anyone's world view is patently false, based on the fact that we use AD.

[Typhlochactas]

It seemed plausible to me that you were trying to insult me, considering that we were never talking about the Gregorian or Julian calenders. A comment about the latin meaning of 'the year of our lord' would just be off the wall.

My post said that getting martyred does not validate views, and that I never said getting them killed is a good way of making things even. Can you explain why the meaning of 'AD' would have any relevance to that?

Sure. Jesus was nailed to a tree, and now we have the past 2-ish thousand years of history.

Religion is "off the wall", and your statement that killing people never validated anyone's world view is patently false, based on the fact that we use AD.

I was referring to what is actually true or not true. Getting killed for your beliefs does not make them any more true. That is what I was talking about.

The only people who would possibly have their views validated by a mass shooting of the WBC are the people in the WBC, who are already 100% assured of what they believe anyways.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Sure. Jesus was nailed to a tree, and now we have the past 2-ish thousand years of history.

Religion is "off the wall", and your statement that killing people never validated anyone's world view is patently false, based on the fact that we use AD.

I was referring to what is actually true or not true. Getting killed for your beliefs does not make them any more true. That is what I was talking about.

The only people who would possibly have their views validated by a mass shooting of the WBC are the people in the WBC, who are already 100% assured of what they believe anyways.

When anyone manages to 100% confirm/deny religion's "truth" standing, they will likely win the game. Or, cause the universe to collapse ala divide by zero.

You're attempting to inject "truth", which is objective, into a situation where subjectivity is both King and Court. You'd be surprised at how many people agree with the WBC. Killing anyone in there would, in their eyes, validate everything they have been saying. It could, quite easily, be the beginning of a very serious problem.

[Typhlochactas]

I was referring to what is actually true or not true. Getting killed for your beliefs does not make them any more true. That is what I was talking about.

The only people who would possibly have their views validated by a mass shooting of the WBC are the people in the WBC, who are already 100% assured of what they believe anyways.

When anyone manages to 100% confirm/deny religion's "truth" standing, they will likely win the game. Or, cause the universe to collapse ala divide by zero.

You're attempting to inject "truth", which is objective, into a situation where subjectivity is both King and Court. You'd be surprised at how many people agree with the WBC. Killing anyone in there would, in their eyes, validate everything they have been saying. It could, quite easily, be the beginning of a very serious problem.

They're not confirming it if we think of confirming as looking for evidence or proof of what you think. The members of WBC are absolutely certain of everything their doctrines teach. There is no doubt in their mind that their religion is true. That is why the point about validation is useless, because the only people who would ever be swayed by that type of martyrdom are already absolutely certain of what they think anyways.

You're suggesting that if somebody went and killed some WBC members, then the surviving members would be even more certain of their views. The problem with this is that they're already as certain as you can get. The problem you're presenting isn't meaningful.

[Virana]

I was referring to what is actually true or not true. Getting killed for your beliefs does not make them any more true. That is what I was talking about.

The only people who would possibly have their views validated by a mass shooting of the WBC are the people in the WBC, who are already 100% assured of what they believe anyways.

When anyone manages to 100% confirm/deny religion's "truth" standing, they will likely win the game. Or, cause the universe to collapse ala divide by zero.

You're attempting to inject "truth", which is objective, into a situation where subjectivity is both King and Court. You'd be surprised at how many people agree with the WBC. Killing anyone in there would, in their eyes, validate everything they have been saying. It could, quite easily, be the beginning of a very serious problem.

A quick look at the Twitter profile of a WBC spokesperson really shows their overwhelmingly insurmountable lack of support.

Anonymous pulled through on this one. They just gained my respect, even after they lost it when I couldn't play PS3 online for 2 months.

[The Emerald Dawn]

When anyone manages to 100% confirm/deny religion's "truth" standing, they will likely win the game. Or, cause the universe to collapse ala divide by zero.

You're attempting to inject "truth", which is objective, into a situation where subjectivity is both King and Court. You'd be surprised at how many people agree with the WBC. Killing anyone in there would, in their eyes, validate everything they have been saying. It could, quite easily, be the beginning of a very serious problem.

They're not confirming it if we think of confirming as looking for evidence or proof of what you think. The members of WBC are absolutely certain of everything their doctrines teach. There is no doubt in their mind that their religion is true. That is why the point about validation is useless, because the only people who would ever be swayed by that type of martyrdom are already absolutely certain of what they think anyways.

You're suggesting that if somebody went and killed some WBC members, then the surviving members would be even more certain of their views. The problem with this is that they're already as certain as you can get. The problem you're presenting isn't meaningful.

Sure, the Romans thought the same damn thing. That getting rid of the problem wouldn't cause more problems. That it would "end" the problem.

[Typhlochactas]

They're not confirming it if we think of confirming as looking for evidence or proof of what you think. The members of WBC are absolutely certain of everything their doctrines teach. There is no doubt in their mind that their religion is true. That is why the point about validation is useless, because the only people who would ever be swayed by that type of martyrdom are already absolutely certain of what they think anyways.

You're suggesting that if somebody went and killed some WBC members, then the surviving members would be even more certain of their views. The problem with this is that they're already as certain as you can get. The problem you're presenting isn't meaningful.

Sure, the Romans thought the same damn thing. That getting rid of the problem wouldn't cause more problems. That it would "end" the problem.

I've never advocated that they should be shot, or that it would would be a good thing if they were the victim of some type of mass shooting. I was just addressing a criticism you made that seemed to be false to me.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Sure, the Romans thought the same damn thing. That getting rid of the problem wouldn't cause more problems. That it would "end" the problem.

I've never advocated that they should be shot, or that it would would be a good thing if they were the victim of some type of mass shooting. I was just addressing a criticism you made that seemed to be false to me.

You seem to be having a different conversation than I am. Where did I accuse you of wanting to kill people?

[Coccygia]

Why even bother to discuss this - all the blather and bloviation will change nothing. Within a year or so it will happen again.

Because some of us think it can change, if everyone puts enough pressure on the blathering idiots in charge?

Well, I DON'T. Unless you have a spare million $$ around, the idiots in charge don't care what you think, they only pretend to at election time. And far more pressure is already being put on them - in terms of campaign donations, etc. - to do nothing. Call me pessimistic if you like, as long as you also call me realistic. I mean, somebody shot a CONGRESSWOMAN and it made no difference, right? Who cares about a bunch of little kids?

[Typhlochactas]

I've never advocated that they should be shot, or that it would would be a good thing if they were the victim of some type of mass shooting. I was just addressing a criticism you made that seemed to be false to me.

You seem to be having a different conversation than I am. Where did I accuse you of wanting to kill people?

Your post argued that getting rid of the problem (in this context, shooting them) doesn't always get rid of the problem, and can actually make it worse, with Jesus and the Roman Empire as an example. I was just reminding you that I don't think getting rid of them is a good idea.

[The Emerald Dawn]

You seem to be having a different conversation than I am. Where did I accuse you of wanting to kill people?

Your post argued that getting rid of the problem (in this context, shooting them) doesn't always get rid of the problem, and can actually make it worse, with Jesus and the Roman Empire as an example. I was just reminding you that I don't think getting rid of them is a good idea.

Right. I never thought you did. But if you feel my argument that it could make it worse is wrong, then you're in a very odd stance.

[Typhlochactas]

Your post argued that getting rid of the problem (in this context, shooting them) doesn't always get rid of the problem, and can actually make it worse, with Jesus and the Roman Empire as an example. I was just reminding you that I don't think getting rid of them is a good idea.

Right. I never thought you did. But if you feel my argument that it could make it worse is wrong, then you're in a very odd stance.

It could make it worse. Nobody would say that it's impossible. I do think that with the WBC, dying as a martyr would only be meaningful to people who were already certain of their world view.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Right. I never thought you did. But if you feel my argument that it could make it worse is wrong, then you're in a very odd stance.

It could make it worse. Nobody would say that it's impossible. I do think that with the WBC, dying as a martyr would only be meaningful to people who were already certain of their world view.

Which would make sense if we weren't discussing religion.