School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[Chernoslavia]

I dont think the problem is being legal anywhere else, but who is actually smuggling them in.

With a nationwide ban, those who are grandfathered in would be less likely to sell their weapons, and those who did would sell at a much higher price due to a lack of availability. Eventually, this would decrease to a trickle of smuggled weapons, as availability becomes nearly non-existent in the States.

EDIT: If you remove availability of the contraband, the smugglers become irrelevant.

Those smugglers aren't getting guns from stores.

[Vanum Norendum]

in the bill of rights it states "the right to bare and hold arms",
many americans believe that these laws should be kept as they held the key to americas successful past so hold the key to their future.

After the recent shooting more and more question theis amandment. It wasn't the key to americas past, it only helped americans feel patriotic,
that they are still the supreme world dominating country that they were in the past, this law was around through the 20th century when they were the supreme country,
saviours of WW1 and WW2 as well as winning the cold war. They want to hold onto that glorious past even though it is slipping away.

How many more men, women and children need to die before america realises its future and holds its head high and embrases the 21st century?

You seem to be rambling about nothing, considering that the second amendment was established well prior to both world wars, and even before the United States had expanded from coast to coast.

[Tmutarakhan]

With a nationwide ban, those who are grandfathered in would be less likely to sell their weapons, and those who did would sell at a much higher price due to a lack of availability. Eventually, this would decrease to a trickle of smuggled weapons, as availability becomes nearly non-existent in the States.

EDIT: If you remove availability of the contraband, the smugglers become irrelevant.

Those smugglers aren't getting guns from stores.

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Those smugglers aren't getting guns from stores.

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

And made in gun factories.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

And made in gun factories.

Eliminate the manufacturing, and you begin to address the problem. It's not like meth, where you can put together a working firearms factory with some basic equipment and plans downloaded from the internet.

[Chernoslavia]

Those smugglers aren't getting guns from stores.

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

Because even though the shopkeepers warned ATF about an obvious straw purchase, ATF still gave them the go ahead. Apparently to try and catch mexican drug lords but failed.

[Tmutarakhan]

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

Because even though the shopkeepers warned ATF about an obvious straw purchase, ATF still gave them the go ahead. Apparently to try and catch mexican drug lords but failed.

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

[The Emerald Dawn]

And made in gun factories.

Eliminate the manufacturing, and you begin to address the problem. It's not like meth, where you can put together a working firearms factory with some basic equipment and plans downloaded from the internet.

Unless you want to make zip-guns. Harder to do mass-murder with those though.

[Chernoslavia]

Because even though the shopkeepers warned ATF about an obvious straw purchase, ATF still gave them the go ahead. Apparently to try and catch mexican drug lords but failed.

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

No, it's because ATF told the gunshop owners that they can sell them, even though they warned ATF about the person. It's part of Operation Fast and Furious.

[The UK in Exile]

Because even though the shopkeepers warned ATF about an obvious straw purchase, ATF still gave them the go ahead. Apparently to try and catch mexican drug lords but failed.

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

quite, selling guns to mexican drug gangs is considered a constitutionally protected right in Arizona.

[Chernoslavia]

Eliminate the manufacturing, and you begin to address the problem. It's not like meth, where you can put together a working firearms factory with some basic equipment and plans downloaded from the internet.

Unless you want to make zip-guns. Harder to do mass-murder with those though.

...or they can just make pipebombs.

[The UK in Exile]

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

No, it's because ATF told the gunshop owners that they can sell them, even though they warned ATF about the person. It's part of Operation Fast and Furious.

Yeah, the ATF listened to the shop-keepers and went to the Arizona courts. couldn't get a warrant. not illegal to buy guns and sell them to mexicans.

[Chernoslavia]

Because even though the shopkeepers warned ATF about an obvious straw purchase, ATF still gave them the go ahead. Apparently to try and catch mexican drug lords but failed.

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

Yes they do....

[The UK in Exile]

No, because our current laws do not permit such prosecutions. ATF went to the US attorneys several times with what they thought were good cases, but the lawyers did not think the cases could succeed given the fucked-up way our laws are.

Yes they do....

there are some Judges in Arizona who disagree with you.

[Chernoslavia]

No, it's because ATF told the gunshop owners that they can sell them, even though they warned ATF about the person. It's part of Operation Fast and Furious.

Yeah, the ATF listened to the shop-keepers and went to the Arizona courts. couldn't get a warrant. not illegal to buy guns and sell them to mexicans.

If your talking about Mexicans specifically then yes of course they can sell them to Mexicans. Now, if you mean to Mexicans over the border then no it's not legal.

[Vanum Norendum]

Those smugglers aren't getting guns from stores.

Most of the guns smuggled into Mexico are bought in gun stores.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162- ... g-cartels/

Seems like the US government is letting the Mexican government get guns from US gun manufacturers, which ultimately end up, due to the rampant corruption in Mexico and defections, in the hands of cartels.

Guns going to Mexico are facilitated by the United States government.

[The UK in Exile]

Yeah, the ATF listened to the shop-keepers and went to the Arizona courts. couldn't get a warrant. not illegal to buy guns and sell them to mexicans.

If your talking about Mexicans specifically then yes of course they can sell them to Mexicans. Now, if you mean to Mexicans over the border then no it's not legal.

I see....
....
....
....
....
how do you tell the difference when their standing on the US side of the border exactly?

the judges decided it was only a crime to sell guns via straw purchase to mexicans if you knew they were bad mexicans.

needless to say, the ATF struggled under this somewhat unsurmountable burden of proof.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Unless you want to make zip-guns. Harder to do mass-murder with those though.

...or they can just make pipebombs.

Or they can make OKC bombs. Or they can learn to fly planes. Or they can mount jizzcannons to the back of an enraged rhino and charge through downtown Baltimore while pumping NWA's classic ballad "Fuck tha Police" through a pair of 80 inch speakers.

See, the problem is "ease of doing" as opposed to "stop any terror ever from happening". One is what we're discussing, the other is a strawman that I just lit on fire.

[Chernoslavia]

...or they can just make pipebombs.

Or they can make OKC bombs. Or they can learn to fly planes. Or they can mount jizzcannons to the back of an enraged rhino and charge through downtown Baltimore while pumping NWA's classic ballad "Fuck tha Police" through a pair of 80 inch speakers.

See, the problem is "ease of doing" as opposed to "stop any terror ever from happening". One is what we're discussing, the other is a strawman that I just lit on fire.

It is easy to make pipe bombs.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Or they can make OKC bombs. Or they can learn to fly planes. Or they can mount jizzcannons to the back of an enraged rhino and charge through downtown Baltimore while pumping NWA's classic ballad "Fuck tha Police" through a pair of 80 inch speakers.

See, the problem is "ease of doing" as opposed to "stop any terror ever from happening". One is what we're discussing, the other is a strawman that I just lit on fire.

It is easy to make pipe bombs.

It's also easy to blow yourself up making pipe bombs. Hence the reason many people buy guns. It's easy to make guns. I've made guns. You just need the right materials. It was dangerous, silly, and more of a "Huh, I can do that." than a "Huh, now I go to shoot people." but hey, you know, people gonna people.

Again, the point being "ease of doing" as opposed to "stop any terror ever from happening".

[Czechanada]

Or they can make OKC bombs. Or they can learn to fly planes. Or they can mount jizzcannons to the back of an enraged rhino and charge through downtown Baltimore while pumping NWA's classic ballad "Fuck tha Police" through a pair of 80 inch speakers.

See, the problem is "ease of doing" as opposed to "stop any terror ever from happening". One is what we're discussing, the other is a strawman that I just lit on fire.

It is easy to make pipe bombs.

People should just focus on bombing each other's pipes.

[Chernoslavia]

If your talking about Mexicans specifically then yes of course they can sell them to Mexicans. Now, if you mean to Mexicans over the border then no it's not legal.

I see....
....
....
....
....
how do you tell the difference when their standing on the US side of the border exactly?

the judges decided it was only a crime to sell guns via straw purchase to mexicans if you knew they were bad mexicans.

needless to say, the ATF struggled under this somewhat unsurmountable burden of proof.

Which the seller did suspect but ATF permitted them.

[The UK in Exile]

I see....
....
....
....
....
how do you tell the difference when their standing on the US side of the border exactly?

the judges decided it was only a crime to sell guns via straw purchase to mexicans if you knew they were bad mexicans.

needless to say, the ATF struggled under this somewhat unsurmountable burden of proof.

Which the seller did suspect but ATF permitted them.

the judges wouldn't let the ATF stop them. the ATF had no authority to stop what was in the eyes of the law a 100% legit private sale.

or to put it another way, no-one had a problem with it until they could point the finger at a federal agency.

[Chernoslavia]

Which the seller did suspect but ATF permitted them.

the judges wouldn't let the ATF stop them. the ATF had no authority to stop what was in the eyes of the law a 100% legit private sale.

or to put it another way, no-one had a problem with it until they could point the finger at a federal agency.

Then they can blame the court for that.

[The UK in Exile]

the judges wouldn't let the ATF stop them. the ATF had no authority to stop what was in the eyes of the law a 100% legit private sale.

or to put it another way, no-one had a problem with it until they could point the finger at a federal agency.

Then they can blame the court for that.

they could, but the republicans had the option of going after pro-2nd amendment activist judges..... or an Obama appointee.

politics trumped sanity again.