Obama The Communist? May Be More Marxist Than American!

[Evraim]

Why can't someone be Marxist and American? Makes no fucking sense.

1.) American citizenship is based upon constitutional documents which possess legitimacy derived from the authority of the state.

2.) Communism advocates the abolition of all states and ownership of the means of production by the industrial proletariat.

3.) Communists, as a principal point to their political ideology, must oppose the state and its coercive means of categorization and stratification. This includes the arbitrary and illusory hierarchy established by the constitutional concept of citizenship which elevates citizens over non-citizens without any sound objective basis.

4.) To be logically consistent, a Communist must necessarily refuse to recognize the legitimacy of such classifications.

5.) In conclusion, a Communist cannot ethically claim American citizenship.

[Giroad]

Good for Him!

I don't think obama is left wing enough personnally.

[Novaya Tselinoyarsk]

Why can't someone be Marxist and American? Makes no fucking sense.

1.) American citizenship is based upon constitutional documents which possess legitimacy derived from the authority of the state.

2.) Communism advocates the abolition of all states and ownership of the means of production by the industrial proletariat.

3.) Communists, as a principal point to their political ideology, must oppose the state and its coercive means of categorization and stratification. This includes the arbitrary and illusory hierarchy established by the constitutional concept of citizenship which elevates citizens over non-citizens without any sound objective basis.

4.) To be logically consistent, a Communist must necessarily refuse to recognize the legitimacy of such classifications.

5.) In conclusion, a Communist cannot ethically claim American citizenship.

Wrong.

Up until the point they actually create a Marxist Utopia they are still American citizens.

[New Ashford]

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.
America's current system is a socialism. When an uninsured person goes to emergency room and can't pay, hospital eats up the bill and pass it to the rest of you. That's why premiums are high. In a "socialized" healthcare, everyone who can pay will pay for the healthcare, in current system, even you can afford insurance, if you are diagnosed in an emergency room and can't pay, hospital will eat up the bill. That is, from what I know.
2. Tax the evil rich.
What did tax cuts to the rich do?
10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.
Did Obama personally submit that bill? and how about the Patriot Act?
16. Massive welfare increases.
"Why is it that you take advantage of a tax break, your a smart bussinessman, but if you took advantage of something to not be hungry, your a moocher?"
-Jon Stewart
There is no dispute that people with fraudulent claim shouldn't get them.
28. Less importance to religion
Securalism should be practised by the government, don't accuse me of being christian hater cause im a catholic.




If you think Obama is a leftist for that reason, go up north, Conservatives in Canada are more left than American Democrats.

[Zaras]

America's current system is a socialism.

Nope, it isn't.

[Wikkiwallana]

$700 billion a year is "so little money"?

Compared to the debt, yes.

No. That's not how this works. You don't compare an increase in revenue to the full debt, anymore than you complain that your raise is too small because it won't let you pay off the house note in a year. You look at money in vs money out. And that $700 billion a year would cut the gap between those two in half, while only taking 2 to 4 more percent from the highest portion of the incomes of top earners.

[CTALNH]

The man is a communist, why?

Because you're clueless and don't have a fucking clue what communism is.

Communism is a stateless, classless, currency less society based on the common ownership of the means of production.

Everything you've listed doesn't fit that. It doesn't even fit the socialist transitional phase, it's just bloody common sense measures.

Oh s#$#% you menshevik your no better than him I am sick of hearing your stupid excuses!
Read The state and revolution to open your freaking eyes!
The exact thing you and all left communists are doing is mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs!!!

Freaking Mensheviks.....

[Zaras]

Oh s#$#% you menshevik your no better than him I am sick of hearing your stupid excuses!

Ah, CTALNH. No thread is complete without your shit-flinging posts and dictator-worship that contributes nothing and displays no actual clue what communism is, clearly.

Read The state and revolution to open your freaking eyes!

Pshyeah, right, quit wanking Stalin's corpse first.

The exact thing you and all left communists are doing is mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs!!!

Except that me and all the left communists weren't responsible for killing the sailors of Kronstadt, fucking over the Free Territory, Catalonia, Hungary...

Freaking Mensheviks.....

Yeah, we're better than you. Deal with it.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Because you're clueless and don't have a fucking clue what communism is.

Communism is a stateless, classless, currency less society based on the common ownership of the means of production.

Everything you've listed doesn't fit that. It doesn't even fit the socialist transitional phase, it's just bloody common sense measures.

Oh s#$#% you menshevik your no better than him I am sick of hearing your stupid excuses!
Read The state and revolution to open your freaking eyes!
The exact thing you and all left communists are doing is mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs!!!

Freaking Mensheviks.....

I don't actually know what this is; it certainly doesn't actually rebut anything posted by Zaras at all.

[Cold Coast]

Now a lot of people will blow this off as a load of crap, but if you open your eyes and embrace truth, you will see the light. The man is a communist, why? I don't need to look at his history of pre-politics to tell you like D'nesh Desouza did. Just look at his so called "agenda".

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.
2. Tax the evil rich.
3. Redistribute the wealth.
4. Control Economy.
5. Regulate business within an inch of their lives.
6. Control stock market.
7. GM takeover.
8. Unions become gigantic leftist political machines.
9. Incite class hatred.
10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.
11. Gun control.
12. Less judicial freedom.
13. Political scandels with his agenda written all over them.
14. Media takeover.
15. Demonize free enterprise.
16. Massive welfare increases.
17. Higher taxes on all disguised by taxing the rich.
18. Income taxes for middle income planned to go over 50%.
19. Income taxes for higher income people planned to go over 75%.
20. Continuing support for NAFTA.
21. Suspiscously marxist cabinet members like Annita Dunn and Van Jones.
22. Manipulation of American culture.
23. Indoctrination through change in education.
24. Massive socialist propaganda campaigns.
25. Anti-americanism apology tours?! (srsly WTF!?)
26. Bill Aires.
27. Reverand Jerimiah Wright.
28. Less importance to religion.
29. Governemnt is the answer to all your problems.
30. Political puppets all demonizing opposing party and kicking out traditional Democrats.

Need I say anymore?

The guy worships the ground Marx and Engels walked on. How you people did not see that is beyond me.

Why did I not vote for him? Now you know. To all you goldfish out there tho, here is a challenge.
PROVE ME WRONG!

God, I'm gonna waste so much time responding to...this.


1. And yet it's one of the least "socialist" health care systems in the developed world.
2. Taxing the rich isn't a bad thing! THEY CAN AFFORD IT!
3. Yes, he redistributes it to the police, and fireman, and those who don't have enough money to eat, or have a home.
4. Except he hasn't.
5. Just not true.
6. This is not happening.
7. Paying them so they don't go bankrupt and lose millions of jobs is not taking over the company.
8. The media hates unions and they are getting weaker. Just look at Michigan.
9. I don't even know what you mean.
10. NO! THAT DIDN'T EVEN PASS! And Obama said he did not support it!
11. He has loosened gun regulations.
12. I have no clue what you're talking about.
13. Again, you're just making this stuff up. And most of what you said is not even close to being Marxist anyways.
14. You're right Obama has taken over the media. You just need to turn on Fox News and you become overwhelmed with pro-Obama bias.
15. You're lying. Again.
16. He hasn't really changed welfare. Him getting rid of the work requirement is a myth told by Romney.
17. Yes, we all know raising taxes on the top 2% magically raised taxes on everybody.
18. I think you might take the onion a little too seriously...
19. Okay, I'm not sure if you're talking about tax increase or how much they will pay after the tax increase. The tax rate rises by about 5% to 39.6%
20. Nafta gets rid of tariffs for trade with Mexico and Canada.its a good thing. And it's also 18 years old and I would assume Bush supported it because it didn't do anything about it. It actually encourages free enterprise. So you kind of just contradicted almost everything you've said.
21. You are insane.
22. This has not even happened.
23. Indoctrination to WHAT?
24. Yup. This has totally happened. Since I'm questioning your intelligence, I'm just gonna make sure you know that this is sarcasm.
25. Never happened and was a huge lie told by the Romney campaign.
26-27. Names don't make somebody a Marxist.
28. A big plus.
29. Not true.
30. By traditional democrats, you don't mean the ones who formed the KKK do you? Unlike the republicans, the democrats have moved out of the 1950s.

So yeah, not only was literally EVERYTHING you said was false, but, for the most part, even if it were true it wouldn't make him a Marxist.

[Zaras]

Oh s#$#% you menshevik your no better than him I am sick of hearing your stupid excuses!
Read The state and revolution to open your freaking eyes!
The exact thing you and all left communists are doing is mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs!!!

Freaking Mensheviks.....

I don't actually know what this is; it certainly doesn't actually rebut anything posted by Zaras at all.

Am I starting to break CTALNH? Good. Just as planned.

[CTALNH]

Oh s#$#% you menshevik your no better than him I am sick of hearing your stupid excuses!

Ah, CTALNH. No thread is complete without your shit-flinging and dictator-worship that contributes nothing and displays no actual clue what communism is.

Read The state and revolution to open your freaking eyes!

Pshyeah, right, quit wanking Stalin's corpse first and maybe I'll listen.

The exact thing you and all left communists are doing is mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs!!!

Except that me and all the left communists weren't responsible for killing the sailors of Kronstadt, fucking over the Free Territory, Catalonia, Hungary...

Freaking Mensheviks.....

Yeah, we're better than you. Deal with it.

"One can wager that out of every 10,000 persons who have read or heard about the “withering away” of the state, 9,990 are completely unaware, or do not remember, that Engels directed his conclusions from that proposition not against anarchists alone. And of the remaining 10, probably nine do not know the meaning of a “free people's state” or why an attack on this slogan means an attack on opportunists. This is how history is written! This is how a great revolutionary teaching is imperceptibly falsified and adapted to prevailing philistinism. The conclusion directed against the anarchists has been repeated thousands of times; it has been vulgarized, and rammed into people's heads in the shallowest form, and has acquired the strength of a prejudice, whereas the conclusion directed against the opportunists has been obscured and “forgotten!"

Now quit your yapping and go read what engels wrote....

[Zaras]

"One can wager that out of every 10,000 persons who have read or heard about the “withering away” of the state, 9,990 are completely unaware, or do not remember, that Engels directed his conclusions from that proposition not against anarchists alone. And of the remaining 10, probably nine do not know the meaning of a “free people's state” or why an attack on this slogan means an attack on opportunists. This is how history is written! This is how a great revolutionary teaching is imperceptibly falsified and adapted to prevailing philistinism. The conclusion directed against the anarchists has been repeated thousands of times; it has been vulgarized, and rammed into people's heads in the shallowest form, and has acquired the strength of a prejudice, whereas the conclusion directed against the opportunists has been obscured and “forgotten!"

And this proves what, except for the fact that some people are too fucking stupid to understand anarchism?

Now quit your yapping and go read what engels wrote....

Quit wanking to Stalin and go make posts that aren't shit.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Now quit your yapping and go read what engels wrote....

Oh God, the irony of someone who believes in Socialism In One Country telling me to go and read my Engels.

---

It makes me kind of sad that a) this topic was ever created and b) some people support OP's premise.

[Evraim]

Wrong.

Up until the point they actually create a Marxist Utopia they are still American citizens.

I was joking. Also, wouldn't that imply a recognition of and submission to the state's authority?

Compared to the debt, yes.

No. That's not how this works. You don't compare an increase in revenue to the full debt, anymore than you complain that your raise is too small because it won't let you pay off the house note in a year. You look at money in vs money out. And that $700 billion a year would cut the gap between those two in half, while only taking 2 to 4 more percent from the highest portion of the incomes of top earners.

I recognize that. I'm trying to defend somebody else's statements, and making a rather poor effort of it.

That would be like measuring a company's revenue against it's liabilities. More appropriate measurements would involve either assets and liabilities or expenses and revenues.

[CTALNH]

"One can wager that out of every 10,000 persons who have read or heard about the “withering away” of the state, 9,990 are completely unaware, or do not remember, that Engels directed his conclusions from that proposition not against anarchists alone. And of the remaining 10, probably nine do not know the meaning of a “free people's state” or why an attack on this slogan means an attack on opportunists. This is how history is written! This is how a great revolutionary teaching is imperceptibly falsified and adapted to prevailing philistinism. The conclusion directed against the anarchists has been repeated thousands of times; it has been vulgarized, and rammed into people's heads in the shallowest form, and has acquired the strength of a prejudice, whereas the conclusion directed against the opportunists has been obscured and “forgotten!"

And this proves what, except for the fact that some people are too fucking stupid to understand anarchism?

Now quit your yapping and go read what engels wrote....

Quit wanking to Stalin and go make posts that aren't shit.

No it proves that anarchism is not communism you freaking menshevik and that the state isn't "abolished" us you and your freaking buddy always say but it "withers away"...

[CTALNH]

Now quit your yapping and go read what engels wrote....

Oh God, the irony of someone who believes in Socialism In One Country telling me to go and read my Engels.

---

It makes me kind of sad that a) this topic was ever created and b) some people support OP's premise.

Says the kid that hasn't even read what Socialism in one country means!

[Zaras]

:palm: No it proves that anarchism is not communism

Who fucking cares if anarchism is not communist? Communism is anarchist. In a Venn diagram, communism is entirely part of anarchism.

you freaking menshevik

Awww, u mad. Teehee. ^_^

and that the state isn't "abolished" us you and your freaking buddy always say but it "withers away"...

Abolish, wither away, what's the difference? The point of socialism as a phase is still to dismantle the state.

[Zaras]

Oh God, the irony of someone who believes in Socialism In One Country telling me to go and read my Engels.

---

It makes me kind of sad that a) this topic was ever created and b) some people support OP's premise.

Says the kid that hasn't even read what Socialism in one country means!

It means stupidity.

[Post War America]

Your flame attacks on Mencheviks are not appreciated. Please stop, its not helping your case.

[CTALNH]

:palm: No it proves that anarchism is not communism

Who fucking cares if anarchism is not communist? Communism is anarchist. In a Venn diagram, communism is entirely part of anarchism.

you freaking menshevik

Awww, u mad. Teehee. ^_^

and that the state isn't "abolished" us you and your freaking buddy always say but it "withers away"...

Abolish, wither away, what's the difference? The point of socialism as a phase is still to dismantle the state.

I get it your fucking with me....
nobody can be that dump.....

[Evraim]

Says the kid that hasn't even read what Socialism in one country means!

It means stupidity.

Easy, comrades. Let's play nice.

[CTALNH]

Says the kid that hasn't even read what Socialism in one country means!

It means stupidity.

If you read it you would freaking understand why its a historical necessity to support Stalin and Lenin....

[Khodoristan]

I personally believe we should be run by a triumvirate of a Japanese whaler, a Romanian gymnast, and a Green Bay Packers fan. That would be cool, I think.

[Glaedirsgrad]

Its about time then...