Obama The Communist? May Be More Marxist Than American!

[Evraim]

Obama is as much communist as I am a neo-nazi.

Obama is as much communist as I am liberal.

You're all conservatives. You just don't know it yet.

[Northern Itasca]

Gun control laws have actually loosened under the Obama administration despite everything said in the NRA hype.

Why? because he signed a bill allowing people to carry in national parks? Gun control is largely a subject the federal government leaves to the states. Touching gun control would have gauaranteed defeat in this past election. It, unfortunantely, with all these kooks shooting places up, will come soon enough...

[The Occident]

Very little of the OP actually holds any water. Sources, maybe?

[Vulpae]

Why don't we have any clever right-wingers who regularly post "Obama is pushing a policy I disagree with"?

Because you only agree with far right Ayn Randian capitalism if you're either exceptionally rich or a deluded ideologue. Since there aren't that many uber rich people here, guess who attacks Obama?

Ayn Rand was a political science-fiction writer, NOT a political leader, and NOT an economist.
I prefer the captialisim premoted by Adam smith, funny how people tend to forget the second half of his work warning against the mega-corps of his day.

[Immoren]

Obama is as much communist as I am liberal.

You're all conservatives. You just don't know it yet.

le gasp

[Oneracon]

Most people assume Obama's a socialist/communist/whatever because he's taking tiny steps that would bring the neglected and minuscule American welfare system up to the standards of every other industrialised country in the world.

The belief that capitalism is cheaper and more efficient than government welfare programs is far from universally true.

The US government spent $5267 per capita on health care in 2005, the $3000 more than the next-highest developed country (Switzerland). Interestingly, as profits of insurance providers, pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals increase... the US has a higher infant mortality rate, lower quality of children's health, and a shorter average lifespan than other industrialized countries.

Hell, the rate of women dying in childbirth has increased in the last twenty years according to the Dept. of Health and Human Services.

[Thaipursia]

Now a lot of people will blow this off as a load of crap, but if you open your eyes and embrace truth, you will see the light. The man is a communist, why? I don't need to look at his history of pre-politics to tell you like D'nesh Desouza did. Just look at his so called "agenda".

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.
2. Tax the evil rich.
3. Redistribute the wealth.
4. Control Economy.
5. Regulate business within an inch of their lives.
6. Control stock market.
7. GM takeover.
8. Unions become gigantic leftist political machines.
9. Incite class hatred.
10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.
11. Gun control.
12. Less judicial freedom.
13. Political scandels with his agenda written all over them.
14. Media takeover.
15. Demonize free enterprise.
16. Massive welfare increases.
17. Higher taxes on all disguised by taxing the rich.
18. Income taxes for middle income planned to go over 50%.
19. Income taxes for higher income people planned to go over 75%.
20. Continuing support for NAFTA.
21. Suspiscously marxist cabinet members like Annita Dunn and Van Jones.
22. Manipulation of American culture.
23. Indoctrination through change in education.
24. Massive socialist propaganda campaigns.
25. Anti-americanism apology tours?! (srsly WTF!?)
26. Bill Aires.
27. Reverand Jerimiah Wright.
28. Less importance to religion.
29. Governemnt is the answer to all your problems.
30. Political puppets all demonizing opposing party and kicking out traditional Democrats.

Need I say anymore?

The guy worships the ground Marx and Engels walked on. How you people did not see that is beyond me.

Why did I not vote for him? Now you know. To all you goldfish out there tho, here is a challenge.
PROVE ME WRONG!

you forgot #31. he doesn't like spinach.
You really need to back up your claims here. Religion as a requirement for governemt policy, what is the U.S. government, the Vatican ? free enterprise has been daemonised and glorified in the U.S. almost since it's inception. Can you find specifically where Pres. Obama actually said Government is the solution to all opf our problems."? NAFTA was entacted long before Pres. Obama.

[Laerod]

The moment you used Fox News we all gave up on arguing with you.

And that juvenile response is why I view leftists as narrow-minded bigots.

Same thing with the quote: I gave up three pages ago when he ignored everything said.

You have no interest in hearing differing opinions. You just want to sit in a sea of like minded people. All should be shunned, ignored, or beaten into submission.

Right, a little smackdown in intellectual honesty:

You're in no position to lecture anybody. You've rejected sources outright without reading them. You then started a rejection of other sources because of alleged bias. And why? Because you refused to acknowledge that the NRA has been vocal about "Obama coming for our guns". And then you start talking about how Obama's coming for your guns. It's the same kind of cognitive dissonance you see in holocaust deniers.

Regarding sources: Opinion pieces are very, very unlikely to be valuable for supporting a factual claim. There's exceptions, but as a rule they're not. Similarly, as a rule, Fox News and the rightwing blogosphere are unreliable sources. The ocean of tears and disbelief that the "evil mainstream media" had been right all along about the polls finally forced even the dumbest rightwinger to acknowledge reality rather than what they'd been hearing from sources they trusted for one small moment. Rejecting the bullshit you cited has nothing to do with tribalism and everything to do with the reliability of sources. All the sources presented to you were perfectly adequate for demonstrating that something happened. Your rejection was utterly baseless and the action of a petulant child that doesn't want to admit it's bed time.

[Post War America]

Challenge accepted. Imma go ahead, and pick apart this argument piece by piece.

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.

No, The ACA is not in any way shape or form "socialized medicine". It was created with the help of CEOs (or at the very least the CEO of Aetna). It actually forces people to buy things from private entities. The only significant profit reducing regulation is that now insurance companies must spend 80% of their intake actually insuring people. I hate the ACA, don't get me wrong, but it is not socialized medicine

2. Tax the evil rich.
3. Redistribute the wealth.

Yes he wants to tax the rich. But really, that's not a Marxist thing to do. In fact, a lot of Republicans supported a progressive tax scale, that is until Reagan. Even so, most of this tax money won't go to social spending. This tax-the-rich crusade is going towards deficit reduction and debt servicing, and the wealthy happen to hold a large amount of American Debt.

4. Control Economy.
5. Regulate business within an inch of their lives.
6. Control stock market.

No, actually, Obama has continued the recent trend of privatizing a number of formerly government industries, like NASA, and has continued to use PMCs. Obama has not taken control of the stock market, nor will he. The new Wall Street regulations are necessary as the stock market is a dangerous toy.

7. GM takeover.

Yes, for a certain period, the government bought the majority of GM stock, however, GM now does better than it would have if no action was taken. While I disapprove of spending all that money on something we could have done for a lot less, it was still an okay thing.

8. Unions become gigantic leftist political machines.

Actually, Unions have lost power during Obama's term.

9. Incite class hatred.

No, all he's asking is that the wealthy pay a bit more than the rest of us. If I were president, the proposed 40% rate for the wealthy would be well underneath what I would do.

10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.

Actually, Republicans were the sponsors of SOPA, not the Democrats, and not Obama.

11. Gun control.

Obama has actually repealed a large amount of gun control laws.

12. Less judicial freedom.

Please, explain what the hell you mean by this.

13. Political scandels with his agenda written all over them.

Yeah... and how do scandals make someone a Marxist. going by that logic, almost every single President in US history was a Marxist. Including the 15 that were in power before Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto.

14. Media takeover.

Please, share with me this "media takeover". Shrub did a whole helluva lot of that, but Obama really hasn't. Even if he has (which I'm fairly certain he hasn't), that does not make him Marxist, its usually Repbublicans that restrict press freedoms.

15. Demonize free enterprise.

Incorrect, Obama has (vocally at least) encouraged the growth of small business, which is frankly more free than corporate business.

16. Massive welfare increases.

Actually, Obama has cut back on Welfare. It's unemployment insurance that he's expanded.

17. Higher taxes on all disguised by taxing the rich.
18. Income taxes for middle income planned to go over 50%.
19. Income taxes for higher income people planned to go over 75%.

I doubt that highly, Obama lacks the guts to do something that radical, and even so, it was tax rates like these that we had in the 1950s and 1960s, the height of the American economy. In fact, the tax rate on the top 1% during these times was close to 90%

20. Continuing support for NAFTA.

Someone explain to me how expanding the influence of free trade is Marxist. Are you saying this simply because a Democrat signed it into law, if so, please start looking with your eyes instead of your mouth.

21. Suspiscously marxist cabinet members like Annita Dunn and Van Jones.

Having looked at the views of both of these people, I can say that these cabinet members are hardly Marxist. Until Obama raises the zombies of Eugene Debs and Victor Berger, don't say that Obama has a socialist cabinet, never mind a Marxist one.

22. Manipulation of American culture.

You mean like most other Presidents. Face it, any president has huge influence on US culture and society, doing anything would manipulate it.

23. Indoctrination through change in education.
24. Massive socialist propaganda campaigns.

I'm going to need more evidence on these, that's a pretty serious allegation.

25. Anti-americanism apology tours?! (srsly WTF!?)

No... just... no. Even if Obama has engaged in "apology tours" how is that Anti-American? Big boys go an apologize for their fuck-ups, and a lot of US foreign policy consists of fuck-ups. Still, once you get past these two, how does this make him Marxist?

26. Bill Aires.
27. Reverand Jerimiah Wright.

No.. just... no... you can't use other people as an argument.

28. Less importance to religion.

this is actually the best argument you've provided so far. Obama has in fact been less concerned with religion than previous presidents. I consider that a good thing. We live a in a secular state, and the fact that people can slander someone for not being Christian, bowing to the will of the Vatican, or engaging in Holy Wars for God, is absolutely disgusting.

29. Governemnt is the answer to all your problems.

Incorrect, Obama has said in numerous speeches that he encourages Americans to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make it in the world.

30. Political puppets all demonizing opposing party and kicking out traditional Democrats.

Actually, this sounds exactly like what a certain Tea Party Movement is doing to a certain Republican Party right now.

There, I tore your argument a new ass chute. Challenge beaten.

I may expand on these later but I think that this response should be sufficient for now.

[Zaras]

It's convenient.

It's NSG.

[Zaras]

Ignoring the OP, I think Obama is a socialist or just a pseudo-socialist.

You're wrong.

[Oneracon]

Another fun fact: 49 million people being without any form of health insurance in the United States is a circumstance that is duplicated in no other developed nation.

So yay, 'Murrica is special

[Zaras]

I see you are using the Washington Post and the Huffington Post, traditional liberal media outlets. Practically cheerleaders for the left.

Epistemic closure.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/28/president-obamas-anti-gun-agenda-shows-no-sign-stopping/

Fox News is an invalid source.

But that is just info from the right. I'll present less biased info when confronted with less biased arguments.

So, your strategy when proven wrong is to whine that everybody's biased against you?

[Genivaria]

Obama is as much communist as I am a neo-nazi.

I would totally Sieg Heill Immoren.

[Three Weasels]

you forgot #31. he doesn't like spinach.

I thought it was the opposite, that he was replacing all junk food with spinach.

[Laerod]

you forgot #31. he doesn't like spinach.

I thought it was the opposite, that he was replacing all junk food with spinach.

He's not.

[Zaras]

And that juvenile response is why I view leftists as narrow-minded bigots.

Stop projecting your juvenile, narrow-minded bigotry onto others.

You have no interest in hearing differing opinions. You just want to sit in a sea of like minded people. All should be shunned, ignored, or beaten into submission.

That describes the Republicans' echo chamber perfectly.

We're interested in differing opinions that aren't brain-burningly stupid.

Democrats are socialists and Republicans are socialists light.

You're wrong and deluded if you think that. Not helping your case in addition to the childishness you showed earlier.

If you want to focus on gun control, they are both wrong. If you read the 2nd amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It's a Weird American Thing, as TV Tropes would say.

[Farnhamia]

Another fun fact: 49 million people being without any form of health insurance in the United States is a circumstance that is duplicated in no other developed nation.

So? Some of them are perfectly healthy individuals who don't care to subject themselves to the nanny-state insistence on getting insurance. These are people who can field-dress a moose in less than an hour and pack the meat out on foot. These are people who carry first aid kits and can sew up their own wounds in a jiffy, not that they ever get wounded, they're that good. The rest are lazy, welfare-teat-sucking moochers and looters who will find themselves fleeing the burning of their collectivist nests once the Job Creators and Atlases of this world finally shrug.

[Evraim]

I thought it was the opposite, that he was replacing all junk food with spinach.

He's not.

Why not? Spinach is healthy and delicious.

[Laerod]

Another fun fact: 49 million people being without any form of health insurance in the United States is a circumstance that is duplicated in no other developed nation.

So? Some of them are perfectly healthy individuals who don't care to subject themselves to the nanny-state insistence on getting insurance. These are people who can field-dress a moose in less than an hour and pack the meat out on foot. These are people who carry first aid kits and can sew up their own wounds in a jiffy, not that they ever get wounded, they're that good. The rest are lazy, welfare-teat-sucking moochers and looters who will find themselves fleeing the burning of their collectivist nests once the Job Creators and Atlases of this world finally shrug.

:p

Everyone knows that cancer is God's way of telling you to get a job.

[Immoren]

Obama is as much communist as I am a neo-nazi.

I would totally Sieg Heill Immoren.

You know I dislike being in spotlight.

[Laerod]

He's not.

Why not? Spinach is healthy and delicious.

You ask him why he's not doing it. I'm only aware that it's not happening, not why it's not happening.

[Farnhamia]

So? Some of them are perfectly healthy individuals who don't care to subject themselves to the nanny-state insistence on getting insurance. These are people who can field-dress a moose in less than an hour and pack the meat out on foot. These are people who carry first aid kits and can sew up their own wounds in a jiffy, not that they ever get wounded, they're that good. The rest are lazy, welfare-teat-sucking moochers and looters who will find themselves fleeing the burning of their collectivist nests once the Job Creators and Atlases of this world finally shrug.

Everyone knows that cancer is God's way of telling you to get a job.

It's true.

[Zaras]

Yes he wants to tax the rich. But really, that's not a Marxist thing to do. In fact, a lot of Republicans supported a progressive tax scale, that is until Reagan. Even so, most of this tax money won't go to social spending. This tax-the-rich crusade is going towards deficit reduction and debt servicing, and the wealthy happen to hold a large amount of American Debt.

Reagan raised taxes and criticised millionaires who used loopholes to pay less tax than their workers.

And he was still a horrible fucking president who got the Republican Party hooked on spendthrift irresponsibility. Go figure.

[Khodoristan]

~snip~

Every single point you made is biased or an outright lie. Next time you wanna be cool and troll NS, do it better.