Obama The Communist? May Be More Marxist Than American!

[Evraim]

In all the time I've followed LGBT rights, I have not seen a single sensical argument against gay marriage. Therefore, my experience has led me to the stance that all anti-LGBTers have stupid arguments until proven otherwise.

So far, I have not been proven otherwise.

Are you familiar with the Fascists' arguments against the LGBT community? I disagree with them obviously, but thought them less absurd than the traditional right-wing arguments.

Also, you missed my first question. Do you support the "house negro" and "house fag" nonsense so often hurled by the left at right-wing minority groups and their supporters?

He doesn't know what multitasking is.

I've met rather few active Socialists who do.

I disagree with them, but I would recommend not judging your political opponents prior to engaging with them.

What do you mean "prior to"? Haven't we been putting up with the same shit from them for decades now?

Centuries. And yes. I was refering to specific individuals engaging in debate.

[Mavorpen]

Gun control laws have actually loosened under the Obama administration despite everything said in the NRA hype.

Gun control laws expiring don't count as gun control laws loosening. That is a false pretense that somehow Obama had the audacity to actually go against his party's platform to make it easier for people to use weapons.

...Which doesn't refute his post. The NRA has been spouting, "OBAMA TAKEN UR GUNS!" for years now, when no such thing has happened.

[Three Weasels]

Somehow I couldn't pass up an opportunity to address the OP...

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.

You use that phrase but have zero grasp of what true socialized medicine is. Socialized medicine means that you can see your family doctor WITHOUT needing insurance. Socialized medicine means being able to receive medical testing without paying. Socialized medicine is government funded. What America has is equal access to medical insurance coverage. Money is still being paid out of pocket, it is not coming entirely from taxation. If it was truly socialized medicine, Medicaid and Medicare would be given to all Americans regardless of socio-economic status.

2. Tax the evil rich.

In other words, the Bush tax cuts for the wealth are expiring and returning back ward Clinton-era levels. There is no increase, it's just a restoration of the original taxation rate. The tax cut was not permanent. Currently the wealthy are paying around 35%, being increased to 39.6%.

The only reason it looks like it's much more is because Fox skews its graphs by failing to properly label its X and Y axis points. So, their chart rather than starting at zero starts at 34%, so if you're zoomed in, it appears to be greater than it is.

3. Redistribute the wealth.

Again, an empty phrase. If wealth was redistributed then poverty should be a thing of the past.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/11/ ... -affected/
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-09- ... rs-persist
http://poverty.ucdavis.edu/national-poverty-statistics

4. Control Economy.

So, mandating wages is controlling the economy? If it was a truly controlled economy people would not have the economic freedoms they do. People would be subject to the rationing used in the USSR. The goods and serves available would be dictated by the government.

5. Regulate business within an inch of their lives.

The regulations and act governing business were born out of an era where it was normal to lock your workers in a flaming building, so they would either die of inhalation, or plummet to their death. These regulations prevent companies from forcing employees to live in dormitories such as those used in Chinese factories. Regulation ensures people are worked to death. Businesses still have a lot of liberty in how their practices are run. Find reputable sources that dispute the fact that the average American business has zero freedoms.

6. Control stock market.

No, a controlled stock market is the Chinese stock market, where they play with the value of the Yuan instead of letting market forces dictate value. Prove with sources that the American stock market is wholly government controlled.

7. GM takeover.

Yes, that did happen, but would you rather government take over that allows a company to continue to thrive, or lay off thousands of people, gutting local economies? When people have no disposable income, they don't purchase luxury goods, only the basics. It then means there is no demand for goods and services which add pleasure to life. This then puts people out of work and creates a downward spiral that is felt through the economy. Capitalism needs a jump start some times.

8. Unions become gigantic leftist political machines.

Interesting claim. Source to verify this that isn't Fox News?

9. Incite class hatred.

The media does an excellent job of creating a fire where there is none.

10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.

Which was introduced by Republicans, not Democrats.

11. Gun control.

The shooting in Aurora comes to mind. Tell me again about how guns are controlled. Or is this just a parroted talking point the NRA taught you to spew?

12. Less judicial freedom.

A vague statement. How is there less judicial freedom?

13. Political scandels with his agenda written all over them.

Such as?

14. Media takeover.

What media take-over? You mean one private entity buying out another private entity... *gasp* no, not capitalism!

15. Demonize free enterprise.

Explain your reasoning for this vague claim.

16. Massive welfare increases.

Are you talking spending or dependency? Because there are not many indicators that point to increased spending. Dependency has gone up, but because the economy is in a recession. People have less income but the price of living hasn't stagnated, so they require assistance to survive. I wonder how many of these individuals truly want to be on welfare?

17. Higher taxes on all disguised by taxing the rich.

See the chart I used to answer number 2.

18. Income taxes for middle income planned to go over 50%.
19. Income taxes for higher income people planned to go over 75%.

Forbes has very different numbers. The upper echelons of the middle class will hit 28% while the very wealthy will return to 39.6% (the number previously given in #2). The bracket with the most income tax payers doesn't go up. So, where do you get your numbers?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphilli ... hey-stick/

20. Continuing support for NAFTA.

Let's not forget that Clinton and Bush Jr. both supported it as well. It was signed when Bush Sr was in office. That's right, a Republican signed it. Care to dispute the facts of history?

21. Suspiscously marxist cabinet members like Annita Dunn and Van Jones.

Let's see what a quick search of Anita Dunn turns up. Oh look, she has an opinion that runs contrary to the "right wing". She therefore must be a marxist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Dunn

*gasp* Van Jones is a civil rights activist?! And an environmentalist! Oh the humanity! A man involved in a politicial row because he has a loud mouth. So, that somehow makes him a marxist? I don't see the connection, though he does admit to being an asshole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Jones

22. Manipulation of American culture.

Culture is determined by the people. If you don't like the route the younger generation is taking, sitting and complaining won't change the course of history. Culture is not stagnate, it's always changing, even if those changes are minor.

23. Indoctrination through change in education.

You seem to be mistaking education for religion. Elaborate on this point.

24. Massive socialist propaganda campaigns.

Uh-huh...

25. Anti-americanism apology tours?! (srsly WTF!?)

How it is a bad thing to apologize for actions that have caused harm? Why is it a bad thing to repair America's international reputation by going through diplomatic channels to reach out to those who were wronged? Would rather the world continue to hate America, or would you like the world to change its views on America?

26. Bill Aires.

First, it's Bill Ayers. Spell the name right if you're going to criticize. So, guilt by association? Wonderful.

27. Reverand Jerimiah Wright.

Fair point. The man is a brash loud mouth, but what does he have to do with the presidency?

28. Less importance to religion.

This is more of a shift in cultural values as the younger generations are moving away from traditional religion. It has nothing to do with the government. People are making their own choices, and those choices are now translating into less religion. How is this a bad thing?

29. Governemnt is the answer to all your problems.

I'd sooner trust the government than a faceless corporation since an elected government is accountable to its constituents. If they fuck up, then the voters will punish them at the ballot box in the next election.

30. Political puppets all demonizing opposing party and kicking out traditional Democrats.

Source for this?

Need I say anymore?

Yes. Your points are vague and lack context.

[Eirenia]

No, they're following Democrats, who aren't doing enough to give them rights.

I agree with this. The Democrats give more lip services than anything, though they have done away with a few rather horrid laws. Do you think the Greens or Socialists would legalize same-sex marriage every where if the won nationally?

I agree. And to be fair, I think there would be a serious paradigm shift if we weren't being represented by transphobic, heteronormative mainstream groups like the HRC and GLAAD, who are happy to lobby for the minimum that is in the interests of affluent middle-aged white cisgender LGB.

It's better to vote Dem than to take the risk of third parties and sacrifice everything. We would be better off addressing who is speaking for the queer community and what they're actually saying.

[Zweite Alaje]

Ok, I'll challenge your claim any day. I didn't make up a word, DEGENERACY is a very real word, and even if it hadn't been prior to me using it, it would've been a grammatically correct derivation (how do you think we come up with new words genious?).

For a linguist you sure do have a large association with misspelled words.

My typing is terrible, I type fast so I skip over things alot. Plus, I rush, that doesn't help.
In handwriting , I almost never misspell anything.

[Zaras]

In all the time I've followed LGBT rights, I have not seen a single sensical argument against gay marriage. Therefore, my experience has led me to the stance that all anti-LGBTers have stupid arguments until proven otherwise.

So far, I have not been proven otherwise.

Are you familiar with the Fascists' arguments against the LGBT community? I disagree with them obviously, but thought them less absurd than the traditional right-wing arguments.

Uh... they're fascists. I don't want to waste my time giving their stupidity any extra oxygen.

Also, you missed my first question. Do you support the "house negro" and "house fag" nonsense so often hurled by the left at right-wing minority groups and their supporters?

No, and I didn't even realise you asked that. You just said "such rhetoric", and I assumed that meant the quote underneath.

By the same token, I guess you're against the nonsense hurled by the right-wing at the left. It's hilarious how the UK, the land of Punch and Judy politics, doesn't seem to have as overheated a rhetoric as the USA.

I've met rather few active Socialists who do.

Yeah. It's pretty embarrassing.

[Kengburg]

1. Stop complaining about how gays join the liberals over conservatives, liberals are the only one supporting gay rights, so obviously gay people would prefer to join them. Also, in a lot of cases, gay people do not just join liberals because they want more rights, a lot of them believe in the liberal philosophy.

2. Obama is not near being a Marxist, not even close, I would classify him as a European style leader (aka light socialism). His foreign policy is okay, I wouldn't really give him the credit of capturing Bin Laden since Bush was working on that through his term and Obama kinda picked up the torch on that one, and Obama really had little to do with the process of capturing him, the military did all the planning etc. but I do give him credit on Muhmar Qaddafi, and effectively destroying the regime. His policy with the rest of the middle east is quite weak in my opinion.

3. Saying liberals are "uneducated" is BS, some of the greatest minds in America and Europe are liberals, and there are intelligent conservatives as well.

4.Liberals do care about gays rights, because they are the only political party that would give gays rights, even if they didnt care, where else would gays go to get their rights? Republicans saying liberals "do not care" is quite idiotic. Liberals have shown they care about gay rights, they have protested, they have supported court cases, they have debated and Obama has made speeches about gay rights, what else would you have liberals do to show their care more? They have done everything to support LGBT rights.

5. Obama has shown that his economic policy is horrible, there is no excuse for where america is right now, nothing has changed, we are still in massive debt, we are not on the road to recovery, in four years he should have at least made a dent in our deficit but he has made it over twice as worse, even though Obama is a strong social leader, his European economic policies have shown no worth in the American Economy, you cannot deny America is worse off than it was four years ago, it is a fact. Any small gains are basically the economy dragging itself along, without any government support. If in four more years America is seemingly better than it was today, I will publicly apologize for my comments and become a die-hard liberal. Europe is a forewarning to America about Obama's policies.

6. Raising taxes on the rich to 40% is crazy, that is above anyones "fair share" which a "fair share" should not be in taxation because taxation is on a base of what the government needs, not what anyone "should" pay, so do not use the term "fair share". Also the necessity of this tax raise is somewhat invisible to me.
1. It would only run the government for 14 days
2. It would be taking nearly half of the rich's income, if you made 1,000,000 youd have 600,000.
3. The liberals have made this a priority over spending cuts
4. We are in a deficit because of spending, not a lack of taxation

7. Any Republican who refers to gays as "fags" or "queers" and African Americans as "Negroes" is a disgrace to the Republican Party, your uneducated, so go to another country or back to middle school

Thanks for reading

[L Ron Cupboard]

Haven't we had enough of these idiotic Obama threads, I know I have? Seriously what sort of a fucking moron would think Obama was a communist?

[Zaras]

Haven't we had enough of these idiotic Obama threads, I know I have?

We're looking at four more years of 'em...

[Gauthier]

So where's the "Kenyan Muslim" option?

[Free Soviets]

The very uneducated (less than highschool) tend towards voting Democrat though. Enlightened self interest most likely.

Are you sure that's true? As far as I know - on a national scale, at least - it's a straight line of increasing liberalism with increasing education.

ah, but you are forgetting. as the coalition of everybody who isn't a southern white dude or rich asshole, the dems have all the african americans and latinos. they both skew to and make up the bulk of the less educated. so yes, while increasing education makes groups shift leftward, they also dominate the bottom end, too.

[Zweite Alaje]

Haven't we had enough of these idiotic Obama threads, I know I have?

Enough? This is NSG, we need MOAR!!!

[Zaras]

Haven't we had enough of these idiotic Obama threads, I know I have?

Enough? This is NSG, we need MOAR!!!

THIS!
IS!
NSG!

[Chinese Regions]

So where's the "Kenyan Muslim" option?

You mean Keynesian

[Laerod]

Now a lot of people will blow this off as a load of crap, but if you open your eyes and embrace truth, you will see the light. The man is a communist, why? I don't need to look at his history of pre-politics to tell you like D'nesh Desouza did. Just look at his so called "agenda".

1. Socialized medicine on an unprecidented scale.

Not unprecedented. Germany, the United Kingdom, France, well, most of the Western world, really, all have much more comprehensive coverage.
Germany, for instance, managed to reduce the amount of uninsured (and Germany legally requires you to have health insurance) to 0.2% of the population (about 137 000 people). The United States, on the other hand, has an uninsured population of around 16%. Obama can only dream of getting the kind of coverage other Western nations have.

2. Tax the evil rich.

Considering that the rich like Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and Mitt Romney pay less in taxes as a percentage than their secretaries, bringing their taxation levels back to those with working incomes isn't socialism. It's plain fairness. Besides, progressive taxation isn't socialist. The concept has been shown to predate socialism by hundreds of years.

3. Redistribute the wealth.

Not a socialist concept. Free market capitalism seeks to redistribute wealth as well.

4. Control Economy.

No need to disprove this. The statement "Obama does not want to control the economy" is a negative, and you cannot find evidence for something that isn't happening. So if it's happening, YOU need to provide the evidence that Obama is advocating a planned, socialist economy. Until then, "What has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" applies.

5. Regulate business within an inch of their lives.

Business disagrees that it's that bad. In fact, the US routinely ranks very high on the Ease of Doing Business Index, meaning that a shit ton more regulation won't bring business anywhere near an "inch of their lives".

6. Control stock market.

Ridiculous. Stock markets are frowned upon by socialists (Marx goes to great lengths to criticize the practice), so controlling them isn't socialist. Getting rid of them would be. Otherwise, same as 4.

7. GM takeover.

GM is not being taken over, nor has it been, and there are other reasons for why the US still has roughly 30% in shares that it hasn't sold yet. Regardless, 30% is quite a bit less than total ownership.

8. Unions become gigantic leftist political machines.

Hardly. Unions have been losing influence in various states (WI, MI, IN), so the claim they have become "gigantic" is false. Similarly, they've always been "leftist". Though there once was a day when the United States considered having unions as a sign of freedom of and prosperity. Not really a time when the US could be considered socialist, either.

9. Incite class hatred.

The call for fairness hardly counts.

10. Bills that take down freedom of speech like SOPA.

A bill introduced by Lamar S. Smith, a Republican from Texas. Needless to say, Obama has had his press secretary state that he would not support the removal of freedoms in the name of stopping online piracy. And he stuck to his guns. Though, in earnest, the internet has no place in socialist philosophy.

11. Gun control.

Has nothing to do with socialism.

12. Less judicial freedom.

Arguably has nothing to do with socialism and same as 4.

13. Political scandels with his agenda written all over them.

Specifics needed.

14. Media takeover.

Not indicative of socialism, mostly indicative of totalitarianism. Also same as 4.

15. Demonize free enterprise.

Same as 4.

16. Massive welfare increases.

Not because of Obama. The reason there's been an increase is because the recession has made more people eligible for medicaid (by far the largest increase). It hasn't jumped because of Obama's policies, but because of policies set in place long before he ever took office.

17. Higher taxes on all disguised by taxing the rich.
18. Income taxes for middle income planned to go over 50%.
19. Income taxes for higher income people planned to go over 75%.

Same as 4.

20. Continuing support for NAFTA.

Because he's legally obliged to. Not to mention that a free trade area is as unsocialist as it gets.

21. Suspiscously marxist cabinet members like Annita Dunn and Van Jones.

Anita Dunn referenced Mao in a manner totally unrelated to socialism. Obama distanced himself from Van Jones' more controversial positions as soon as they came to light, so whether Jones actually supported STORM is irrelevant.

22. Manipulation of American culture.

Neither socialist nor negative. "Manipulating" culture is something all Americans do, some more successfully than others.

23. Indoctrination through change in education.

Same as 4.

24. Massive socialist propaganda campaigns.

Same as 4.

25. Anti-americanism apology tours?! (srsly WTF!?)

A complete fabrication.

26. Bill Aires.

Bill Ayers. What about Bill Ayers?

27. Reverand Jerimiah Wright.

Obama distanced himself from him a long time ago.

28. Less importance to religion.

Meaningless. Less importance than what? Besides, this is not related to socialism.

29. Governemnt is the answer to all your problems.

Same as 4.

30. Political puppets all demonizing opposing party and kicking out traditional Democrats.

That's not socialist and by far something the Republicans are more guilty of.

Need I say anymore?

Yes. I've marked a number of points that had insufficient information.

The guy worships the ground Marx and Engels walked on. How you people did not see that is beyond me.

Probably because he's not.

Why did I not vote for him? Now you know. To all you goldfish out there tho, here is a challenge.
PROVE ME WRONG!

I have.

[Zweite Alaje]

Enough? This is NSG, we need MOAR!!!

THIS!
IS!
NSG!

*anthropomorphic NSG kicks L Ron down into endless pit*

[Evraim]

Uh... they're fascists. I don't want to waste my time giving their stupidity any extra oxygen.

Not even the gay Fascists? Ernst Röhm, for example. Apparently, he thought that gay white men were superior.

By the same token, I guess you're against the nonsense hurled by the right-wing at the left. It's hilarious how the UK, the land of Punch and Judy politics, doesn't seem to have as overheated a rhetoric as the USA.

Naturally, though the aforementioned examples tend to vex me the most. How can a political faction that claims to be tolerant fling such mud at minorities for making decisions that disagree with their own? Between the "Obama is a Kenyan" and "Cain is a house negro" comments, I'm quite convinced I should start my own political party.

Yeah. It's pretty embarrassing.

Indeed, though still not as embarrassing as the birthers.

So where's the "Kenyan Muslim" option?

It's implied and obligatory. By posting in this thread, you acknowledge this as fact.

[Gallogach]

Gun control laws expiring don't count as gun control laws loosening. That is a false pretense that somehow Obama had the audacity to actually go against his party's platform to make it easier for people to use weapons.

...Which doesn't refute his post. The NRA has been spouting, "OBAMA TAKEN UR GUNS!" for years now, when no such thing has happened.

Please show me this NRA advertisement spouting this.

[Kengburg]

1. Stop complaining about how gays join the liberals over conservatives, liberals are the only one supporting gay rights, so obviously gay people would prefer to join them. Also, in a lot of cases, gay people do not just join liberals because they want more rights, a lot of them believe in the liberal philosophy.

2. Obama is not near being a Marxist, not even close, I would classify him as a European style leader (aka light socialism). His foreign policy is okay, I wouldn't really give him the credit of capturing Bin Laden since Bush was working on that through his term and Obama kinda picked up the torch on that one, and Obama really had little to do with the process of capturing him, the military did all the planning etc. but I do give him credit on Muhmar Qaddafi, and effectively destroying the regime. His policy with the rest of the middle east is quite weak in my opinion.

3. Saying liberals are "uneducated" is BS, some of the greatest minds in America and Europe are liberals, and there are intelligent conservatives as well.

4.Liberals do care about gays rights, because they are the only political party that would give gays rights, even if they didnt care, where else would gays go to get their rights? Republicans saying liberals "do not care" is quite idiotic. Liberals have shown they care about gay rights, they have protested, they have supported court cases, they have debated and Obama has made speeches about gay rights, what else would you have liberals do to show their care more? They have done everything to support LGBT rights.


5. Obama has shown that his economic policy is horrible, there is no excuse for where america is right now, nothing has changed, we are still in massive debt, we are not on the road to recovery, in four years he should have at least made a dent in our deficit but he has made it over twice as worse, even though Obama is a strong social leader, his European economic policies have shown no worth in the American Economy, you cannot deny America is worse off than it was four years ago, it is a fact. Any small gains are basically the economy dragging itself along, without any government support. If in four more years America is seemingly better than it was today, I will publicly apologize for my comments and become a die-hard liberal. Europe is a forewarning to America about Obama's policies.

6. Raising taxes on the rich to 40% is crazy, that is above anyones "fair share" which a "fair share" should not be in taxation because taxation is on a base of what the government needs, not what anyone "should" pay, so do not use the term "fair share". Also the necessity of this tax raise is somewhat invisible to me.
1. It would only run the government for 14 days
2. It would be taking nearly half of the rich's income, if you made 1,000,000 youd have 600,000.
3. The liberals have made this a priority over spending cuts
4. We are in a deficit because of spending, not a lack of taxation

7. Any Republican who refers to gays as "fags" or "queers" and African Americans as "Negroes" is a disgrace to the Republican Party, your uneducated, so go to another country or back to middle school

Thanks for reading

Also I add this:

8. Obama is not Kenyan, he was born in Hawaii

[Evraim]

8. Obama is not Kenyan, he was born in Hawaii

You say that as if Hawaii were a real state. It's a myth like South Dakota or Canada.

[Caninope]

How come every right-winger on the forum knows deep in their heart that Obama is a communist nazi kenyan african foreign marxist socialist whatever?

Why don't we have any clever right-wingers who regularly post "Obama is pushing a policy I disagree with"?

Do I not exist anymore?

[Khadgar]

...Which doesn't refute his post. The NRA has been spouting, "OBAMA TAKEN UR GUNS!" for years now, when no such thing has happened.

Please show me this NRA advertisement spouting this.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -our-guns/

Seriously, the NRA is convinced Obama is going to outlaw guns, or ammunition, or both. It's kind of hilarious when you realize Obama hasn't done shit to control guns and has let some gun laws lapse without bothering to even attempt renewal. He still gets screamed at as being anti-gun.

[Tubbsalot]

How come every right-winger on the forum knows deep in their heart that Obama is a communist nazi kenyan african foreign marxist socialist whatever?

Why don't we have any clever right-wingers who regularly post "Obama is pushing a policy I disagree with"?

Do I not exist anymore?

NO

[Zaras]

Uh... they're fascists. I don't want to waste my time giving their stupidity any extra oxygen.

Not even the gay Fascists? Ernst Röhm, for example. Apparently, he thought that gay white men were superior.

Yeah, I have no respect for fascists.

Naturally, though the aforementioned examples tend to vex me the most. How can a political faction that claims to be tolerant fling such mud at minorities for making decisions that disagree with their own? Between the "Obama is a Kenyan" and "Cain is a house negro" comments, I'm quite convinced I should start my own political party.

In the USA? Sounds like a waste of time.

Indeed, though still not as embarrassing as the birthers.

Or the rape apologists... yeuch...

[Eirenia]

...Which doesn't refute his post. The NRA has been spouting, "OBAMA TAKEN UR GUNS!" for years now, when no such thing has happened.

Please show me this NRA advertisement spouting this.

But the NRA decided to focus the new ad campaign entirely on the people's rights to defend themselves after Obama mentioned a ban on assault weapons during the second presidential debate...

"Some gun owners took Obama at his word four years ago, when he said he wouldn't take their guns away," said Chris W. Cox, executive director, NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "So, after years of paying lip service to the Second Amendment, President Obama finally let it slip last night that he supports the most draconian form of gun control – a gun ban."

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