Yet Another What the Hell is Atheism Thread

[Bone Fort]

For fuck's sake, stop using that shitty Google dictionary function.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/zero

It said the exact same fucking thing.

"no quantity or number; nought; the figure 0:"

Try again.

[Mavorpen]

For fuck's sake, stop using that shitty Google dictionary function.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/zero

It said the exact same fucking thing.

"no quantity or number; nought; the figure 0:"

Try again.

Nice quote mining. "cardinal number (plural zeros)"

Try again.

[Seperates]

Isn't the word normally ethnocentric?

That's the word I was thinking of thank you.

No problem.
Had an Anthro final today. Putting it curtly, I got dat' shit on lock down.

[Transhuman Proteus]

except it is inherently flawed because that describes Christians as well.

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Do Christians believe in all deities? Do they get down and worship Odin, the Goddess etc?

[Eoghania]

dictionary.com disagrees, although I suppose that's probably why the wiki article has a whole section on what it actually means.

Dictionary.com is shit.

Not sure why you're trying to compare it with Oxford Dictionaries.

Because much as I like the book, the Oxford Dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn't the definition of a word. That it is disputed suggests you should, perhaps, stop insisting your definition is correct.

[The British Royal Crown]

except it is inherently flawed because that describes Christians as well.

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Agnostic Christians exist, and Atheist Christians exist also.There are those that see Christ as a moral teacher, but they don't believe in God.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

except it is inherently flawed because that describes Christians as well.

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Bluth happily would.

[Sociobiology]

except it is inherently flawed because that describes Christians as well.

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Thor, Vishnu, Perun, ect.
pick a God, Christians believe all of them do not exist.

The implication of singularity and/or disbelief in your definition makes it inherently flawed because most religions believe most Gods do not exist.

[Mavorpen]

Dictionary.com is shit.

Not sure why you're trying to compare it with Oxford Dictionaries.

Because much as I like the book, the Oxford Dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn't the definition of a word. That it is disputed suggests you should, perhaps, stop insisting your definition is correct.

It is correct. It even follows the etymology of the word. You can make shit up all you want, but you'd still be wrong.

[Eoghania]

Theism - the belief that there exists at least one divine being.
Atheism - the belief that divine beings do not exist.
Agnosticism - lack of belief in either of the above.

Atheism is taking a side, just as theism is.

so people who are unsure are all three at once?

People who are unsure are agnostic - i.e. refuse to be theist or atheist.

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Do Christians believe in all deities? Do they get down and worship Odin, the Goddess etc?

Belief in one or more gods =/= belief in all proposed gods.

[Bone Fort]

Nice quote mining. "cardinal number (plural zeros)"

Try again.

Nice quote mining yourself. In that case, it gave two conflicting answers.

[Mavorpen]

so people who are unsure are all three at once?

People who are unsure are agnostic - i.e. refuse to be theist or atheist.

False. Agnosticism has nothing to do with the question of belief in god/gods. You either believe or you don't.

[Sociobiology]

so people who are unsure are all three at once?

People who are unsure are agnostic - i.e. refuse to be theist or atheist.

no because they are accepting both athiesm and agnosticism as partially true.


which is why I like the Dawkins' scale better.

[Mavorpen]

Nice quote mining. "cardinal number (plural zeros)"

Try again.

Nice quote mining yourself. In that case, it gave two conflicting answers.

No, because a cardinal number can be used differently from "number."

[Eoghania]

Christians believe God does not exist? Are you really going to argue that?

Agnostic Christians exist, and Atheist Christians exist also.There are those that see Christ as a moral teacher, but they don't believe in God.

Someone who claims to be an Atheistic Christian is kidding themselves. If they're Christian, they believe in God. Moral teacher, sure, whatever, but that doesn't fit the definition of Christian.

Because much as I like the book, the Oxford Dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn't the definition of a word. That it is disputed suggests you should, perhaps, stop insisting your definition is correct.

It is correct. It even follows the etymology of the word. You can make shit up all you want, but you'd still be wrong.

C16: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos godless - Collins
1580s, from Fr. athéisme (16c.), from Gk. atheos "without god" - Harper
It's alright to be wrong sometimes, you know. To claim "there is no god" is patently taking a stance.

[Bone Fort]

No, because a cardinal number can be used differently from "number."

So then your point is?

[Mavorpen]

C16: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos godless - Collins
1580s, from Fr. athéisme (16c.), from Gk. atheos "without god" - Harper
It's alright to be wrong sometimes, you know. To claim "there is no god" is patently taking a stance.

Now explain how "Without god" means "there is no god".

[Sociobiology]

Because much as I like the book, the Oxford Dictionary is not the arbiter of what is and isn't the definition of a word. That it is disputed suggests you should, perhaps, stop insisting your definition is correct.

It is correct. It even follows the etymology of the word. You can make shit up all you want, but you'd still be wrong.

You do realize English is one of the few languages that does not have a offical board setting definitions right?
there really is no RIGHT definition, you can however argue for a better one based on usage, purpose, and utility.

[Mavorpen]

No, because a cardinal number can be used differently from "number."

So then your point is?

Atheism isn't the belief in a lack of a God, it's lack of belief in a God.

By that logic, zero isn't a number.

This was silly.

It is correct. It even follows the etymology of the word. You can make shit up all you want, but you'd still be wrong.

You do realize English is one of the few languages that does not have a offical board setting definitions right?
there really is no RIGHT definition, you can however argue for a better one based on usage, purpose, and utility.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/facetious

[Eoghania]

People who are unsure are agnostic - i.e. refuse to be theist or atheist.

False. Agnosticism has nothing to do with the question of belief in god/gods. You either believe or you don't.

"nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God". See that "or" there?

C16: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos godless - Collins
1580s, from Fr. athéisme (16c.), from Gk. atheos "without god" - Harper
It's alright to be wrong sometimes, you know. To claim "there is no god" is patently taking a stance.

Now explain how "Without god" means "there is no god".

A or not A is rather binary. If you say "it isn't A", you are saying "not A". Either you believe there is a number of gods greater than or equal to one, or you don't. Or you declare that you don't know (agnosticism).

People who are unsure are agnostic - i.e. refuse to be theist or atheist.

no because they are accepting both athiesm and agnosticism as partially true.


which is why I like the Dawkins' scale better.

If they're unsure, surely they're accepting both theism and atheism as possible?

[Mavorpen]

False. Agnosticism has nothing to do with the question of belief in god/gods. You either believe or you don't.

"nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God". See that "or" there?

Yes. What does that have to do with belief in God?

A or not A is rather binary. If you say "it isn't A", you are saying "not A". Either you believe there is a number of gods greater than or equal to one, or you don't. Or you declare that you don't know (agnosticism).

That's not how belief works. "I believe God doesn't exist," isn't the same as, "I don't believe God exists."

[Bone Fort]

So then your point is?

By that logic, zero isn't a number.

This was silly.

And how? Zero is a lack of numbers or quantity. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods etc.

[Bone Fort]

That's not how belief works. "I believe God doesn't exist," isn't the same as, "I don't believe God exists."

And just how? Please elaborate.

[Mavorpen]

This was silly.

And how? Zero is a lack of numbers or quantity. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods etc.

"Number" has two meanings. The first is that it's a mathematical object used to label the amount of something. The other is that it IS that amount. The dictionary is using number in the latter sense of the word.

[Mavorpen]

That's not how belief works. "I believe God doesn't exist," isn't the same as, "I don't believe God exists."

And just how? Please elaborate.

One is a claim, the other isn't.