Yet Another What the Hell is Atheism Thread

[Sociobiology]

No, it isn't. Atheism is lack of belief in a god/gods. THAT is the definition of atheism that encompasses all atheists. HOWEVER, there can be an atheist that believes there is no god/gods because that means that he still has lack of belief in them. You were arguing something different from saying, "an atheist can believe that there is no god/gods."

Look at the middle of the sodding chart. Pure Agnosticism - stance neither way. *Every* stance on the atheism side is that THERE IS NO GOD.

a better version of the chart, that unfortunately does not fit as an image.
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz253/Punani_Don/dawins_scale.png

'There is no god' is a statement of certainty which all but strong atheist lacks.

[Sociobiology]

No, it isn't. Atheism is lack of belief in a god/gods. THAT is the definition of atheism that encompasses all atheists. HOWEVER, there can be an atheist that believes there is no god/gods because that means that he still has lack of belief in them. You were arguing something different from saying, "an atheist can believe that there is no god/gods."

So zero isn't a number?

no please don't derail this into a discussion on number theory.

[Bone Fort]

no please don't derail this into a discussion on number theory.

Don't worry, I'll not bring it back up, provided no one else takes me up on it. I'm just going to let it drop.

[Eoghania]

Look at the middle of the sodding chart. Pure Agnosticism - stance neither way. *Every* stance on the atheism side is that THERE IS NO GOD.

a better version of the chart, that unfortunately does not fit as an image.
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz253/Punani_Don/dawins_scale.png

There is no god is a statment of certainty which all but strong atheist lacks.

Well, quite. I meant that every stance on the atheist side includes the belief that there is no god, and only the strong atheist (i.e. fool) holds it as definite fact.

You referenced a chart, I used the items on the chart. See these goalposts? Stop moving them.

That's not what moving the goal posts is.

True, moving the goalposts is to change the goal. But it's a nicer than saying "stop changing your reference point so it matches what you want it to match". We already got to the point of dictionaries disagreeing over the definition, and the point that there is no one arbiter of the English language. Going back to them is a waste of everyone's time.

[Mavorpen]

So you're admitting that it was a straw man to claim that I was saying that I specifically do not respect religious people for that reason.

Please point out exactly where I said this was a strawman.

You've failed to refute that it wasn't a straw man. I'm taking this as a concession.

[Sociobiology]

a better version of the chart, that unfortunately does not fit as an image.
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz253/Punani_Don/dawins_scale.png

There is no god is a statment of certainty which all but strong atheist lacks.

Well, quite. I meant that every stance on the atheist side includes the belief that there is no god, and only the strong atheist (i.e. fool) holds it as definite fact.

it is the word belief that is causing the trouble, it has several meanings.

many people use belief interchangeable with faith and/or acceptance as fact

[Eoghania]

Well, quite. I meant that every stance on the atheist side includes the belief that there is no god, and only the strong atheist (i.e. fool) holds it as definite fact.

it is the word belief that is causing the trouble, it has several meanings.

many people use belief interchangeable with faith and/or acceptance as fact

So far as I'm concerned, belief is acting as though something were the case without conclusive evidence to support the claim. Circumstantial evidence and solid argument, certainly, but nothing that absolutely proves it as true, and any alternative theory as false. Whilst preferably accepting and acknowledging that there is nothing conclusive, only at most strong probability.

[splinching a post Nerv missed from t'other thread]

[Tothemax6]

Atheism is 'a-theism'. That is 'without theism'.
I.e. it is a declaration of non-participation in organised nonsense.

As an example, I am 'a-twighlightist'. That is, I do not recognised the relevance or importance of, or even consider the idea of, watching a Twilight movie.
I can't comprehend how someone couldn't comprehend this.

[Kleomentia]

I never made that claim in this argument.

By being a theist, you already have. Unless you aren't, in which case, from where are you arguing?

That is most certainly incorrect. You can be a theist and not believe in heaven/hell. Do you really think religion has to be so crude?

[Komish]

2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity


Also normally means at least in my experience that there is no spiritual connection either.

[Kleomentia]

Atheism is 'a-theism'. That is 'without theism'.
I.e. it is a declaration of non-participation in organised nonsense.

As an example, I am 'a-twighlightist'. That is, I do not recognised the relevance or importance of, or even consider the idea of, watching a Twilight movie.
I can't comprehend how someone couldn't comprehend this.

There really is no importance in watching any movie. The thing is about tastes in movies, which some people lack significantly.

[Dyakovo]

Only if you don't know what atheism is.

Belief in no gods or supreme beings. That's the whole definition.

Wrong, atheism is the lack of belief in any deity or deities.

So am I to take it you're admitting that you're wrong?

Nope.

Whether you admit it or not, you are.

No, pretty wrong.

Atheism ''The theory or belief that God does not exist'' thats pretty much the same definition as nightkill, but with different wording,

It was incorrect when he said it, and its still wrong.

Atheism isn't the belief in a lack of a God, it's lack of belief in a God.

Theism - the belief that there exists at least one divine being.
Atheism - the belief that divine beings do not exist.
Agnosticism - lack of belief in either of the above.

Atheism is taking a side, just as theism is.

Wrong.
Agnosticism is a statement of knowledge, not belief.

Theism: belief in a deity or deities.
Atheism: lack of belief in a deity or deities.

Gnostic: belief that the existence of a deity or deities is or can be known.
Agnost: belief that the existence of a deity or deities isn't or can't be known.

"I believe there is no god".

Which isn't atheism.

Well, actually it is... It's not the only form of atheism.

a better version of the chart, that unfortunately does not fit as an image.
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz253/Punani_Don/dawins_scale.png

There is no god is a statment of certainty which all but strong atheist lacks.

Well, quite. I meant that every stance on the atheist side includes the belief that there is no god, and only the strong atheist (i.e. fool) holds it as definite fact..

Lacking belief, despite your repeated claims to the contrary, is not the same thing as a belief in the lack.

[Risottia]

Only if you don't know what atheism is.

Belief in no gods or supreme beings. That's the whole definition.

Nope. Lack of belief isn't necessarily belief of lack. Some logical principles, though, such as Occam's razor and Russel's teapot, lead us to the null option - that is, the "belief of lack" option - in the current absence of proof of the necessity of a deity.
So, even a belief of lack would be more logically sound than a belief of presence.

Anyway, don't look at me. As ignosticist, I'm even worse.

[Frisivisia]

By being a theist, you already have. Unless you aren't, in which case, from where are you arguing?

That is most certainly incorrect. You can be a theist and not believe in heaven/hell. Do you really think religion has to be so crude?

You're avoiding my point. You can't be a theist and not believe in a deity.