LGBT Christians, yeah we exist.

[Meryuma]

Another person who I'd like to ask to elaborate.

God doesn't make people Gay, no one is born Gay, there are no Gay genes.

It's just a bunch of Western Hippie non-sense.

A lot of people don't even have any sort of sexual orientation until they hit puberty.

The whole "You're born Gay" thing is just stupid, it's a choice, if God gave us freedom to control our own will, why wouldn't he allow us to choose our own sexual orientation?

People everyday switch between being Heterosexuals and Homosexuals, my girlfriend had a friend who used to be a Lesbian, but then she just went Straight one day, explain 'Gay genes' to her, she'll laugh in your face.[/quote]

It is an indisputable fact that one does not make a conscious decision to be gay. I know that because I'm gay, and it was a total surprise to me. It is probably true, however, that there isn't a gay gene, seeing as it's probably epigenetic.

As for homosexuality being Western:

I die of love for him, perfect in every way,
Lost in the strains of wafting music.
My eyes are fixed upon his delightful body
And I do not wonder at his beauty.
His waist is a sapling, his face a moon,
And loveliness rolls off his rosy cheek
I die of love for you, but keep this secret:
The tie that binds us is an unbreakable rope.
How much time did your creation take, O angel?
So what! All I want is to sing your praises.

- Abu Nuwas, medieval Arab poet.

Your girlfriend's friend is a bisexual, BTW.

[Renegade Babylonian Kings]

Has anybody already said "Cogito Ego Queer", If you think you're gay, you're gay?

If not, I'd like to say something.

Its like LGBT, yeah we exist is the same line of poetry.

Declare. Exist. Thrive. Keep Walken!

[Renegade Babylonian Kings]

Females are believed to have more changeable sexual orientation, and to be more likely to be bisexual, than males. Research on this is not solid, but it certainly agrees with my experience.

Still using the "I'm sorry, I'm a lesbian" line, are they?

What struck me was the "research on this is not solid" which is likely a magical invocation to the Muses of Bullshit to then be followed by something horrible.

[Meryuma]

Females are believed to have more changeable sexual orientation, and to be more likely to be bisexual, than males. Research on this is not solid, but it certainly agrees with my experience.

Not really.

Has anybody already said "Cogito Ego Queer", If you think you're gay, you're gay?

Fortunately not, seeing as many people are at least somewhat gay who think they're not.

[Renegade Babylonian Kings]

Females are believed to have more changeable sexual orientation, and to be more likely to be bisexual, than males. Research on this is not solid, but it certainly agrees with my experience.

Not really.

Has anybody already said "Cogito Ego Queer", If you think you're gay, you're gay?

Fortunately not, seeing as many people are at least somewhat gay who think they're not.

So its not an "if and only if" in the strict boolean mathematics sense, its just more, when you know, you know, but you might not know yet? I can kind of see that. Its how I was with Marvel vs. DC.

[Tsuntion]

How does this 'gay gene' get inherited? Surely, genes can only be passed on through reproduction.

Yep. Looks like it's time for me to recap some Science lessons.

Genes have different forms, known as alleles, which typically come in pairs -- one from the father and one from the mother. You can get dominant alleles and recessive ones, usually shown by capital and lowercase letters. Sometimes, as with polydactyly, the dominant allele causes a condition, meaning you just need one dominant allele and you'll have an extra digit or three. Other times, as with cystic fibrosis, the recessive one causes it. Here, you need to inherit the recessive allele from both parents to have the condition.

Simplifying things briefly, let's take the hypothetical that homosexuality is caused by the recessive allele g, with the dominant one, G, not causing it. If both parents are carriers of the recessive allele, they'll be straight (since the dominant one, well, dominates), but one of their kids could be gay. Here are the possible combinations represented in a genetic cross diagram, with the mother's genes shown in pink and the father's in blue.

	G	g
G	GG -- heterosexual kid 1	Gg -- heterosexual kid 2
g	gG -- heterosexual kid 3	gg -- homosexual kid

Straight kid 1 isn't a carrier of the gay gene at all. His (assuming these are all guys 'cause it's easier) children may be carriers of it, since his partner might have it, but they won't be gay themselves. Children 2 and 3 are carriers, since they have the recessive allele g, but they also have G which doesn't cause homosexuality, so they're still likely straight. The gay child has both recessive alleles so, if he has biological children for some reason, they'll all be carriers or gay themselves.

Because of this, straight parents can have gay kids perfectly well, assuming it's caused by a single gene (which is, as I said, a simplification). Why, that recessive allele could be passed through generations of straight people before a child is born homosexual, as it's only a 25% chance and a Gg person could reproduce with a GG one.

Does that make sense? I hope I've explained it clearly and accurately. Please also remember that not all biological factors are simple genes; as Meryuma said, it's influenced by epigenetic stuff too (the bith order effect is documented), for example. To my knowledge, nobody is yet certain how the interaction of genes works with regards to homosexuality.

Race isn't will, number of arms isn't will, parents aren't will. These things are circumstantial, which God will not let us choose, as circumstances help to define who we will be in life! If we could all choose, then we'd probably find everyone to be really similar, and the world would stop. But sexual orientation is will.

In case you didn't notice, I'm arguing that orientation isn't will either, which is backed up by research. Why can't it be something set in our circumstances that defines us in life? Saying that God would let us choose orientation but not race is really quite arbitrary.

It takes willpower and backbone to choose not to be homosexual. There is a gay tendency in all of us, but we have to work past that. The only reason we do have that tendency is because we like to be with people of our own genders - it's how God made us!

I don't know if there's a gay tendancy in all of us. What I do know is that some people are gay. These people are homosexual and homoromantic and homoanythingelseyoucaretoname. I believe God created them with an innate attraction towards the same sex just as he created most people with an innate attraction towards the opposite sex; "friend-orientation", for want of a better term, is unrelated.

But marriage and sexual intercourse are two things which God saved for a man and a woman to enjoy - union in God's eyes.

I do not believe God is so limited and limiting as to say people can only be together if they meet pointless gender requirements. Homosexual sex is perfectly possible and homosexual marriage is a union as valid as any other.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Please save us ignorant fools then oh true saviour of humanity.

As for the op, I don't mind LGBT clergy at all, all are welcome in the Church, I do not, however, think the Church should be blessing same sex unions or allowing them to wed in Church - but that's just me.

But transgender people are "made" that way. You're born L, G, B, and T. It's a genetic thing.

Do elaborate?

[Furious Grandmothers]

How does this 'gay gene' get inherited? Surely, genes can only be passed on through reproduction.

Yep. Looks like it's time for me to recap some Science lessons.

Genes have different forms, known as alleles, which typically come in pairs -- one from the father and one from the mother. You can get dominant alleles and recessive ones, usually shown by capital and lowercase letters. Sometimes, as with polydactyly, the dominant allele causes a condition, meaning you just need one dominant allele and you'll have an extra digit or three. Other times, as with cystic fibrosis, the recessive one causes it. Here, you need to inherit the recessive allele from both parents to have the condition.

Simplifying things briefly, let's take the hypothetical that homosexuality is caused by the recessive allele g, with the dominant one, G, not causing it. If both parents are carriers of the recessive allele, they'll be straight (since the dominant one, well, dominates), but one of their kids could be gay. Here are the possible combinations represented in a genetic cross diagram, with the mother's genes shown in pink and the father's in blue.

	G	g
G	GG -- heterosexual kid 1	Gg -- heterosexual kid 2
g	gG -- heterosexual kid 3	gg -- homosexual kid

Straight kid 1 isn't a carrier of the gay gene at all. His (assuming these are all guys 'cause it's easier) children may be carriers of it, since his partner might have it, but they won't be gay themselves. Children 2 and 3 are carriers, since they have the recessive allele g, but they also have G which doesn't cause homosexuality, so they're still likely straight. The gay child has both recessive alleles so, if he has biological children for some reason, they'll all be carriers or gay themselves.

Because of this, straight parents can have gay kids perfectly well, assuming it's caused by a single gene (which is, as I said, a simplification). Why, that recessive allele could be passed through generations of straight people before a child is born homosexual, as it's only a 25% chance and a Gg person could reproduce with a GG one.

Does that make sense? I hope I've explained it clearly and accurately. Please also remember that not all biological factors are simple genes; as Meryuma said, it's influenced by epigenetic stuff too (the bith order effect is documented), for example. To my knowledge, nobody is yet certain how the interaction of genes works with regards to homosexuality.

Race isn't will, number of arms isn't will, parents aren't will. These things are circumstantial, which God will not let us choose, as circumstances help to define who we will be in life! If we could all choose, then we'd probably find everyone to be really similar, and the world would stop. But sexual orientation is will.

In case you didn't notice, I'm arguing that orientation isn't will either, which is backed up by research. Why can't it be something set in our circumstances that defines us in life? Saying that God would let us choose orientation but not race is really quite arbitrary.

It takes willpower and backbone to choose not to be homosexual. There is a gay tendency in all of us, but we have to work past that. The only reason we do have that tendency is because we like to be with people of our own genders - it's how God made us!

I don't know if there's a gay tendancy in all of us. What I do know is that some people are gay. These people are homosexual and homoromantic and homoanythingelseyoucaretoname. I believe God created them with an innate attraction towards the same sex just as he created most people with an innate attraction towards the opposite sex; "friend-orientation", for want of a better term, is unrelated.

But marriage and sexual intercourse are two things which God saved for a man and a woman to enjoy - union in God's eyes.

I do not believe God is so limited and limiting as to say people can only be together if they meet pointless gender requirements. Homosexual sex is perfectly possible and homosexual marriage is a union as valid as any other.

Just to add a point: Why do the genes for sickle cell anemia exist? Heightened resistance to malaria. Same thing for genes contributing to homosexuality or other deviations from heteronormativity. They simultaneously contribute to 'carrier' mothers tending to have more babies than average.

[The Alexanderians]

I *love* how this has gone from a simple and commendable question to yet another argument about "How people are Gay". Please get back on topic people! The OP didn't ask for all this, just your opinions on the subject please stay on topic and off of tangents.

[Grenartia]

I certainly believe that 1. if God wanted us to be homosexual, then he would have given us organs so that we could reproduce with our own 2. gender. 3. But, it's your choice, and I'll respect that...
4. Not saying I'll be happy about it though.

1. Just like if God wanted us to communicate with others over long distances, he would've given us two-way radios in our heads?

2. I believe the word you're looking for is sex, not gender.

3. Science has proven that its not a choice.

4. I'm glad I'm not looking for other people's approval.

Please save us ignorant fools then oh true saviour of humanity.

As for the op, I don't mind LGBT clergy at all, all are welcome in the Church, I do not, however, think the Church should be blessing same sex unions or allowing them to wed in Church - but that's just me.

But transgender people are "made" that way. You're born L, G, B, and T. It's a genetic thing.

As I recall, there's rather solid evidence for prenatal hormone levels having something to do with things as well.

I'd be interested in seeing a source for that, because the second and third quotes here (I'm not linking to the reference in that article as it's a PDF file) indicate otherwise, both with regards to your claim of no genetic factors and that of children having no orientation. Many people are not sexually aware until puberty and thus do not think about their sexuality. This doesn't mean they don't have one; the quotes say that it is established before birth or in early childhood, both of which are stages before puberty.

1. How does this 'gay gene' get inherited? Surely, genes can only be passed on through reproduction.

If God gave us freedom to control our own will, why wouldn't he allow us to choose our own race? If God gave us freedom to control our own will, why wouldn't he allow us to choose our own number of arms? If God gave us freedom to control our own will, why wouldn't he allow us to choose our own parents?

Race isn't will, number of arms isn't will, parents aren't will. These things are circumstantial, which God will not let us choose, as circumstances help to define who we will be in life! If we could all choose, then we'd probably find everyone to be really similar, and the world would stop. 2. But sexual orientation is will. 3. It takes willpower and backbone to choose not to be homosexual. 4. There is a gay tendency in all of us, but we have to work past that. 5. The only reason we do have that tendency is because we like to be with people of our own genders - it's how God made us! 6. But marriage and sexual intercourse are two things which God saved for a man and a woman to enjoy - union in God's eyes.

1. You've obviously not heard of the Gay Uncle Theory. Basically, the concept is that the siblings of gay people are a bit more fertile than usual, so they have greater chances of passing on the genetic factors that cause homosexuality, which, contrary to common belief, actually does fit in with natural selection, because the gay uncle will be less likely to reproduce, and so puts less of a resource strain on the local ecosystem, while at the same time, can act as more or less of a babysitter for the children of the group, while the parents are out getting food.

2. Source?

3. Tell that to all of the former ex-gays, as well as the psychological community.

4. Why should we? It doesn't hurt anybody, and does nothing inherently bad.

5. Again, source?

6. Source?

Just wanted to drop by and wish a very merry and equal christmas to all the LGBT Christians out there.

Thanks. Same to you as well.

[Scholencia]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

[Menassa]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

Not really, because I don't follow what The Church says.

[Scholencia]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

Not really, because I don't follow what The Church says.

Ok, but isnt that in contrary with the christian religion? I mean the thread is about LGB christians.

[Menassa]

Not really, because I don't follow what The Church says.

Ok, but isnt that in contrary with the christian religion? I mean the thread is about LGBT christians.

Way I see it is like this: If Jesus came to fulfill the Laws of Moses.... then those Laws no longer apply.

[Scholencia]

Ok, but isnt that in contrary with the christian religion? I mean the thread is about LGBT christians.

Way I see it is like this: If Jesus came to fulfill the Laws of Moses.... then those Laws no longer apply.

Ok. So, how are you currently?

[Uiiop]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

>implying all christians follow one church Also which church are you talking about?

[Menassa]

Way I see it is like this: If Jesus came to fulfill the Laws of Moses.... then those Laws no longer apply.

Ok. So, how are you currently?

How am I currently what?

[Menassa]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

>implying all christians follow one church Also which church are you talking about?

I assumed they meant the Catholic Church because that's the only time I've seen something called The Church.

[Scholencia]

So, what is the Church says homosexuality is wrong, do you agree with it or not?

>implying all christians follow one church Also which church are you talking about?

Well, to me all Churches are almost the same, since they believe in the same God and figure.

I was refering to the Catholic Church since it is the legitimate one and from which the others copy their religious believes.

[Scholencia]

Ok. So, how are you currently?

How am I currently what?

Sorry for my bad english. How are do you feel curently?

[Menassa]

How am I currently what?

Sorry for my bad english. How are do you feel curently?

It's fine, I remember you saying this is your second language?

How do I feel currently about what?

[Uiiop]

>implying all christians follow one church Also which church are you talking about?

Well, to me all Churches are almost the same, since they believe in the same God and figure.

I was refering to the Catholic Church since it is the legitimate one and from which the others copy their religious believes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch ... and_Europe the Church of Sweden wonders where did you get that idea? you know Christianity disagrees with itself a lot right?

[Scholencia]

Sorry for my bad english. How are do you feel curently?

It's fine, I remember you saying this is your second language?

How do I feel currently about what?

Well, i actually dont know english very well.

I meant, how are you?

[Menassa]

It's fine, I remember you saying this is your second language?

How do I feel currently about what?

Well, i actually dont know english very well.

I meant, how are you?

Fine.... but that's for another place and another time.

[Scholencia]

Well, to me all Churches are almost the same, since they believe in the same God and figure.

I was refering to the Catholic Church since it is the legitimate one and from which the others copy their religious believes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch ... and_Europe the Church of Sweden wonders where did you get that idea?

They are all the same to me because they believe in one God, Jesus is the son of God and part of the Trinity, died on the cross etc.

But, if they are practising mass during sundays or not, or what do they think about abortion is not so important since they all believe in this one important "truth". Get it?

EDIT. gnostics are not christians.