Kaliningrad or Königsberg?

[Vistulange]

The title is really self-explanatory. However, for those who do not know the issue, I'll explain in a small spoiler in order to avoid clutter.

At the end of World War II, the city of Königsberg and the area surrounding it was occupied by the Soviets, finally given to the USSR by a decision taken at the Potsdam Conference. The city was renamed to "Kaliningrad" in 1946 in honor of the late Mikhail Kalinin, who was the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet. The German population was expelled and populated with Russians, and the city was closed to visitors due to its strategic importance.

After the Cold War, numerous "Soviet-era names" were changed, such as Stalingrad-Volgograd, Leningrad-St. Petersburg, Stalino-Donets'k, Kalinin-Tver, Sverdlovsk-Yektarinburg. Kaliningrad has not been changed, and the issue is a small debate amongst some people.

My personal opinion is that it should not be changed, due to Mikhail Kalinin not partaking in the atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks during their rule. He, for most part, was a mere figurehead, terrorized by Stalin, mostly. Thus, he shouldn't be demonized and the name of the city changed.

However, I am not an expert on this, so if anyone can show me (with evidence and sources) that Mikhail Kalinin indeed took part in the numerous atrocities, I will reconsider my stance.

So, NSG, what do you think?

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

Rename it Königsberg... and give it to Poland or Lithuania.

Honestly, why the hell does Russia even want that scrap of land?

[Ifreann]

Königsberg, because of the maths problem of the same name.

[Yorkopolis]

I believe it should stay Kaliningrad, there is no alternative name in Russian for it except for "Kyonigsberg" which is simply a Russified version. And besides, it is no longer inhabited by Germans, so I feel there is no need to change the name.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I am mostly German in heritage so my vote toward Konigsberg should be no surprise.

[Phenyzia]

Rename it to Königsberg and return it to Germany.

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

Rename it to Königsberg and return it to Germany.

I think that might carry some bad historical connotations...

Besides, no significant German population there.

[Jetan]

It doesn't matter if Kalinin was as big a dick as rest of the soviet leadership or not, the city's true name is Königsberg, and it should be the official name too.

[Phenyzia]

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Besides, no significant German population there.

There was no significant Russian population either when it was occupied by the Soviet Union.

[Ifreann]

Rename it to Königsberg and return it to Germany.

How would you return it to Germany? Attach it to helicopters and drop it onto the Rhine?


Actually, yeah, do that.

[Wirbel]

Rename it to Königsberg and return it to Germany.

Agree

[Vistulange]

It doesn't matter if Kalinin was as big a dick as rest of the soviet leadership or not, the city's true name is Königsberg, and it should be the official name too.

I believe that many cities had their names changed because, let's face it, most Soviet leaders tended to be tyrants or dicks. Kalinin was not, I believe.

[Divair]

Rename it to Königsberg and return it to Germany.

How would you return it to Germany? Attach it to helicopters and drop it onto the Rhine?


Actually, yeah, do that.

Pick it up, duh.

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

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Besides, no significant German population there.

There was no significant Russian population either when it was occupied by the Soviet Union.

Granted, but we're talking about the here and now.

Unless you're advocating the displacement of the Russians and the absorption of the territory as Lebensraum for Germany, it's still a bad idea- and if you are, it's worse.

Much better to give it to a neighbour if we're giving it to anyone at all.

[Ifreann]

It doesn't matter if Kalinin was as big a dick as rest of the soviet leadership or not, the city's true name is Königsberg, and it should be the official name too.

What determines a city's true name?

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

It doesn't matter if Kalinin was as big a dick as rest of the soviet leadership or not, the city's true name is Königsberg, and it should be the official name too.

What determines a city's true name?

I think there's a piece of paper for it.

Somewhere.

[Phenyzia]

There was no significant Russian population either when it was occupied by the Soviet Union.

Granted, but we're talking about the here and now.

Unless you're advocating the displacement of the Russians and the absorption of the territory as Lebensraum for Germany, it's still a bad idea- and if you are, it's worse.

Much better to give it to a neighbour if we're giving it to anyone at all.

The term Lebensraum was only used by nazis. We're not talking about occupying foreign territory here, but Königsberg is historically a part of germany.

[Ifreann]

What determines a city's true name?

I think there's a piece of paper for it.

Well, we can just get some tipp-ex and change it to whatever, then.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Kaliningrad, because the former German population is long gone.

[Forsher]

Renaming stuff is a mess.

Take Wanganui. Although the audacity to suggest that the spelling is erroneous due to the fault of the very Europeans that created written Maori is astounding. That said, with how things usually are it is spelt incorrectly. However, no-one ever said that Auckland meant anything, did they? (It's named after a person, like Kaliningrad.)

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

Granted, but we're talking about the here and now.

Unless you're advocating the displacement of the Russians and the absorption of the territory as Lebensraum for Germany, it's still a bad idea- and if you are, it's worse.

Much better to give it to a neighbour if we're giving it to anyone at all.

The term Lebensraum was only used by nazis. We're not talking about occupying foreign territory here, but Königsberg is historically a part of germany.

So was Poland, Alsace-Lorraine, Austria...

It's foreign territory, populated by a linguistically and ethnically different population.

[Ifreann]

Granted, but we're talking about the here and now.

Unless you're advocating the displacement of the Russians and the absorption of the territory as Lebensraum for Germany, it's still a bad idea- and if you are, it's worse.

Much better to give it to a neighbour if we're giving it to anyone at all.

The term Lebensraum was only used by nazis. We're not talking about occupying foreign territory here, but Königsberg is historically a part of germany.

It was also historically just some islands in a river with zero human population at all.

[SquareDisc City]

Lots of places were historically part of Germany, but it lost them after the Second World War. Considering Germany started said war, I say tough luck, it doesn't get those places back.

[Saiwania]

As much as I would like for it to be Konigsberg again, I have to acknowledge that it is Russian now and should remain as Kaliningrad in accordance with the wishes of the majority Russian population there. If Russia should ever cede the territory, it should go to either Poland or Lithuania for the sake of geographic contiguity.

I believe it is safe to say that at this point, Germany no longer wants what was formerly Konigsberg back. Much of the German population and architecture which existed there is long gone.

[Melpomenia (Ancient)]

Lots of places were historically part of Germany, but it lost them after the Second World War. Considering Germany started said war, I say tough luck, it doesn't get those places back.

Arguably, Britain started it, or if you want to back to the root cause of WW1, Russia or Serbia.